Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Framed_Angel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group That Others Can't Resist Hijacking

Post by Framed_Angel »

Here Comes That Bob wrote:
dronerstone wrote:Nice. I know this is the thread for the disappointed, but in a nutshell kinda way one could easily take what happened back when the music was introduced and replace it with our favorite FBI agent.
At first "gimme my Cooper! I miss Cooper! This isn't Cooper!"
Episode 16: Cooper back in action, sets things in motion and is on his way to Twin Peaks quickly.
Disappointed fans' reaction: "this is not what I wanted!!!"
Bah.
With excruciating DougieCoop journey we had to endure, I assume most dissapointed fans have stopped caring about Cooper and his fate long ago. And now that he returned past 15 episodes seem like a waste and unneccesary dragging. It's really not that difficult to understand.
Let simple minds have their simple pleasures in your own threads, dronerstone. Here, the complexity of story delivery, character nuance, plot progression, subplot resolution or not, absurdity for its own sake or not, art-meets-entertainment value - - all involves a level of honesty and candor you're better off not trying to understand (and when you fanboys keep coming back to ask how and why, it doesn't validate your 'rightness' rather it makes you seem more insecure in your pride with the product shown thus far, sixteen Parts along~)
"Fool me once... shame on me!"
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by judasbooth »

anthoto1 wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
anthoto1 wrote:
Good illustration of what I was just saying : unfaire subective criticism. There's no point in watching a show when questioning ALL of its artistic choice. At this point, you would have had better cool off, take a break and see the whole thing later.
I love the show but this comment is unfair.
This person probably spent 25 years watching and studying TP. I don't think it's fair to complain about the fact that he doesn't like it yet he still wants to analyze it.
Many here are way involved in this show, you can't ask them not to watch just because they don't like this update.


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Except you're not going to enjoy a show if you're not in the mood for it. When one criticizes basically every artistic choice or plot development, there are two alternatives : whether the show is objectively yrev, very bad, which is not the case hereor the viewer has chosen that he hated the whole show based on it not matching his/her expectations. Unless it's backed up by real analysis and not by peremptory opinions, I'll feel free to call this "hating". :wink:
You've got it backwards, I think. I don't dislike the artistic choices and plot development because I hate the show. I dislike the show (as a whole, it's had its moments) because I hate most of the artistic choices. The reason I, and many others are still here is because we are (were?) all longtime Twin Peaks fans. I wasn't looking for a nostalgia-fest, all I wanted was an adventure, something that I would look forward to seeing every week, something that would go some way to resolving that 25-year cliffhanger. For me, it's mostly been a chore and an obligation. I, like many others, held on through the first half of the series, giving it's strange artistic choices the benefit of the doubt, believing that our patience would be rewarded. Instead, it just kept on down the road of triviality, murderous pacing and wafer-thin non-characters. If the series wasn't called "Twin Peaks" then I suspect that it would have registered a big fat zero on the give-a-shit-ometer and I would have long since switched off.

Like many others, I joined in with the whole "finding the hidden clues and symbols game" until it became apparent that I was wasting my time and there were no hidden clues and symbols. At the same time I realised I had become so distracted by analysing trivialities because there was nothing else to get me personally invested in the show. I have stated, at some length and with many examples, why I believe S3 has been such a failure. Does that make me a "hater"? You don't have to agree with me. If you love it, then great. I have never called into question the sincerity or motivations of those that love the show. Just because it leaves me cold doesn't mean that nobody else should be allowed to enjoy it. Also, it's only a bleedin' TV show. It doesn't affect my life to any great degree. The only reason I've spent some time on here venting is because I'm a fan and I feel let down. I also feel that L&F have the perfect opportunity to do something great and turned out a pretty shoddy series that called itself Twin Peaks. This show may be many things, but, I'm sorry, it ain't Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by BOB1 »

mlsstwrt wrote:sorry but don't expect us to turn around after 15 episodes and be all, 'Praise Lynch!'
Sure not expecting that but still there are guys like this friend of mine, whom I've quoted a couple of times - he was already very pleased last week and now he wrote something like "I've been waiting for this for 25 years!!!", while admitting that the previous three months were the most painful of those 25 years because he honestly didn't like most of what was happening.

Myself, like last week, I haven't seen the whole part. It's a bit of a drag to wake up at 2 a.m. to see it, however my terrible-sleeping little boy made it for me... :roll: So I turned on the TV ca. 2:15 and watched most of it, but not all. I liked it a lot and I already expressed my elation about the Dougie plotline in another thread. I will refrain from writing more from myself until I watch it all. it seemed very goodalthough not as good as my friend seems to see it...

So I'll do what I usually do and quote a bunch of people ;)
mlsstwrt wrote:sorry but real Coop is important but he was only one part of what made the show great
I was going to post it a few times before - while of course I liked Cooper a whole lot and I find him to be an absolutely * * * * * * stars main character and detective, BUT if I should take three main components of Twin Peaks: Cooper (plus the TP police, say) - the town and its inhabitants with all their strangeness and secrets - the supernatural, the dreams etc. - still Cooper is the bronze medalist on this podium :!:
waferwhitemilk wrote:Eddie Vedder and why did he have some different name?
It is his real name. I am not that much of a fan but I think I liked his song a lot. Gotta check it out again!
yaxomoxay wrote:the only thing I like about them is that they were murdered by a distressed Polish accountant.
The guy was Polish? Cool! :D

As for the neverending theoretical debates "who should write here and why":
yaxomoxay wrote: Although I have seen some users coming here to troll, some are actually here to hear your voice. But I can't hear your voice unless I make mine known at least to a certain level.
in a nutshell; this is also one of the reasons why I, too, find this thread the best on the board.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

I mean, I am conscious of the fact that I created the thread so may have a vested interest in continuing to be disappointed rather than turn around and say, 'Fuck guys, I got it wrong, this is amazing.' I can only promise that I could care less about that as compared to getting a TP I love. But honestly at this point it's too late to turn things around. If we get a brilliant finale I'll try to take it as a more or less standalone two hours but I don't think it's going to retroactively make the preceding 15/16 episodes brilliant. People cite MD as an example of the finale making the movie but as one poster said, the final 30 mins or so really took it to another level, I'd already been thoroughly engrossed up to the denouement.

I got a kick out of seeing Cooper back, I really did. But honestly it did feel like a kind of cheap thrill and a pretty easy way for Lynch to get fans cheering.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Candie »

anthoto1 wrote:Haters gonna hate. :lol:

This episode is receiving universal acclaim. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion but if you've decided that you'll hate this show no matter what, no chance you can enjoy it anymore at this point.
If you'd read the thread you'd realize that most of us have enjoyed at least one or two episodes. For me it was 8 and 14. But 16 was arguably the worst written episode this season. Others were more boring or frustrating to me, but this one has the most moments making me go, "you learn in creative writing 101 why this is a bad idea"
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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

mlsstwrt wrote:
I got a kick out of seeing Cooper back, I really did. But honestly it did feel like a kind of cheap thrill and a pretty easy way for Lynch to get fans cheering.
i was completely on board with this thing until episode 6. I liked ep 8 alot. My attention drifted after that, I thought it had lost it's way, and started to get grumpy with it, come away thinking more about the problems than the good bits, hence my reading this group. Where we are now, I can't really see it would have been a major loss if this series had been 12 ep's in total not 18, the material in ep's 9-14 had been contracted into the hour's worth necessary to tie up holes in the plot, and an hour had been lost from ep's 5/6/7.

Anyway, that didn't happen, it is what it is, we are where we are. :)

This was the first ep ? 4 or 5 I have not kept clockwatching.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

referendum wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
I got a kick out of seeing Cooper back, I really did. But honestly it did feel like a kind of cheap thrill and a pretty easy way for Lynch to get fans cheering.
i was completely on board with this thing until episode 6. I liked ep 8 alot. My attention drifted after that, I thought it had lost it's way, and started to get grumpy with it, come away thinking more about the problems than the good bits, hence my reading this group. Where we are now, I can't really see it would have been a major loss if this series had been 12 ep's in total not 18, the material in ep's 9-14 had been contracted into the hour's worth necessary to tie up holes in the plot, and an hour had been lost from ep's 5/6/7.

Anyway, that didn't happen, it is what it is, we are where we are. :)

This was the first ep ? 4 or 5 I have not kept clockwatching.
Yeah I agree with that. Well at least until Eddie Vedder. And hey, I kind of liked 'Alive' and 'Even Flow'.
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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

mlsstwrt wrote:
Yeah I agree with that. Well at least until Eddie Vedder. And hey, I kind of liked 'Alive' and 'Even Flow'.
I forgot about that. Yes, I scrolled through Eddy Vedder. :D
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

mlsstwrt wrote:Plus as I and a couple of people have pointed out, there's a level of hypocrisy here. The same fans that decried our nostalgic tastes are in rapture because we have a missing piece from the original series back.
Being honestly engaged with the Dougie saga and what it was trying to do does not mean I never wanted Coop back at all. I knew he'd be back and I felt pretty early on I dug what Lynch was going for in the Being There/Jacques Tati/etc. vein with Dougie and his cosmic hobo journey. I felt it was essential to Dale finding his way back. You may disagree, but the point is there is no disconnect for me personally between loving having Coop back and enjoying Dougie while he lasted. I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by AnotherBlueRoseCase »

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Last edited by AnotherBlueRoseCase on Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

N. Needleman wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:Plus as I and a couple of people have pointed out, there's a level of hypocrisy here. The same fans that decried our nostalgic tastes are in rapture because we have a missing piece from the original series back.
Being honestly engaged with the Dougie saga and what it was trying to do does not mean I never wanted Coop back at all. I knew he'd be back and I felt pretty early on I dug what Lynch was going for in the Being There/Jacques Tati/etc. vein with Dougie and his cosmic hobo journey. I felt it was essential to Dale finding his way back. You may disagree, but the point is there is no disconnect for me personally between loving having Coop back and enjoying Dougie while he lasted. I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
That's totally fine. My comment wasn't levelled at you. It's at those who keep accusing us of just wanting a nostalgia fest, which actually isn't true. I mean yeah, if wanting a show that bears some slight resemblance to the original is a nostalgia fest then maybe it is true, lol. In any case though if you're accusing people of wanting a nostalgia fest then practically losing it with excitement when any old character returns, to me at least that involves a disagree of hypocrisy or disingenuousness.

Edit: Fantastic post ABR. And definitely, thanks to Dugpa for not killing this thread.
Last edited by mlsstwrt on Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Candie
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Candie »

Dreamy Audrey wrote: - Diane's rape was just a stupid plot device and no one seems to care about her. Diane obviously existed as a real person once and Gordon and Albert knew her, but they didn't seem shocked or concerned by her disappearance. Tammy didn't seem concerned either, all that mattered was: cool, tulpas really exist. Who cares what happened to the real Diane? :roll:
Dude thank you. I've seen so many people overlooking this (because COOPER!) or even defending it as a great plot development. The second Diane walked on screen I could smell it a mile away. I was hoping against hope I'd be wrong but I freaking called it.

To be fair, the actress's performance during that scene was really good, and at least the actress was able to capture a little bit of nuance that to me felt realistic. I've had that conversation, albeit mainly in therapist offices, rather than before FBI agents I seemingly have orders to kill, and something in the difficulty she had forcing some of the words out actually got to me. I felt pretty freaked out after watching, even with my laundry list of complaints.

But good acting can't cover up the horrible writing she was given. I know firsthand how hard that conversation is to have, so I can't for the life of me understand why she'd divulge something so personal to them. I guess the point of that scene was to warn them about Dooper going to the sheriff's station? Maybe to tell them she's a tulpa? But she could have done all of that without diving into some of her deepest traumas. Good as her acting was, it can't eclipse the fact that she was obviously only given those lines as a cheap way to make the audience feel bad for a character the writers didn't flesh out enough for us to care about otherwise.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by dronerstone »

Here's my last bit on this.

I was ever saying I didn't wanna offend anyone and respect people's opinions or am, myself, profoundly disappointed with all you profoundly disappointed fellas.

Those who say "it's bad" got their use of language wrong.
It's rather "i don't like it" because it's a matter of taste after all.
Therefore: I like it and am sad you seemingly can't or won't for whatever reason.

Apart from that not seeing how Lynch is rather an artist than a craftsman is weird.

Btw, I don't eat up everything he makes right away.

I didn't like Eraserhead and have only seen Inland Empire once because it made me have slight panic attacks even days after watching, plus I'm not too fond of the whole TM Cult thing.

That said, cheers folks! I'm outta here (this thread).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:Of course, several respected artists, at least when asked by journalists, have said they like The Return. But how many high-profile artists said on release how poor they found The Godfather III or True Detective 2 or The Phantom Menace?
Most of 'em.
The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
I'm keeping this, thank you.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

Honestly this thread has turned out way more interesting (and way bigger!) than I thought it would. Really, thank you to everyone (almost everyone) for contributing.

Ultimately it was intended to be a few pages at most of a few of us consoling each other over the loss of something dear to us. The 'disappointment' is over for me, it ended a long time ago. So I'm no longer disappointed but it's not because this has improved, it's because it alienated me so completely that I stopped caring. Now I'm just watching because it's Twin Peaks after all and because after this much investment of course I want to see how it ends.
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