Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

mtwentz wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Wow, I’m surprised CBS let that footage onto the discs. It cuts against the “creator-friendly network” vibe Showtime has been trying to cultivate with this show.
Nothing surprises me after hearing a couple of actresses say on the Gold Box edition how much the second season of Twin Peaks sucked :-).
I think that’s a little different, as the original show was essentially a museum piece from a marketing perspective by that point (although it is kind of funny that consumers spent money on a product containing extras that say the product sucks).
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bowisneski
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by bowisneski »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Wow, I’m surprised CBS let that footage onto the discs. It cuts against the “creator-friendly network” vibe Showtime has been trying to cultivate with this show.
I'm wondering if Lynch/Jason S. had final cut on the documentary. It contains a lot of really blunt straight forward stuff.

There's a point where someone is talking to Lynch during filming the Candy and Rodney remote/fly scene about doing a close up of Candy in case they want to be able to cut to make the scene shorter, and Lynch just blasts them and says something along the lines of who the fuck cares how long a scene lasts, and it sort of sounds like something that has been brought up before(that last part is inference and may have no basis in truth).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Earle »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Wow, I’m surprised CBS let that footage onto the discs. It cuts against the “creator-friendly network” vibe Showtime has been trying to cultivate with this show.
Nothing surprises me after hearing a couple of actresses say on the Gold Box edition how much the second season of Twin Peaks sucked :-).
I think that’s a little different, as the original show was essentially a museum piece from a marketing perspective by that point (although it is kind of funny that consumers spent money on a product containing extras that say the product sucks).
Oh well, they probably felt encouraged by Lynch who came down on Season 2 hard just before the premiere of S 3 - guess he had to manifest how much he detests what came before, just so he could demonstrate/justify this (meaning S 3) is how things should be done.
Just curious, was one of the actresses Kimmy Robertson? She's notorious for some good ol' S 2 bashing.

Anyway, here's what Mark Frost has to say about such demeanor:

"But I also think it's bad form to bad-mouth your own work, especially when it's putting bread on your table, even if you weren't or didn't feel that you were particularly involved at the time. A lot of people worked very hard and did the best they could to make Season 2 – and it is what it is."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Earle »

Oh, and here's a link to that particular Frost interview: http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/twin-peaks ... interview/
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by laughingpinecone »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think, when Ontkean dropped out at the last minute, it tickled L/F to continue the series’ theme of “doubling” by introducing the idea of “two Sheriff Trumans,” casting the actor who was originally supposed to play him in the pilot. In fact, I’d bet that if Forster weren’t available, they would have dropped the character. I also wonder if, given the timing (close to the start of production), this wasn’t one of those ideas DKL had unilaterally, and Mark’s only contribution was to say, “Great idea! Go for it.”
A chronologically sensible hypothesis for sure. But the fact that the two Sheriffs are basically introduced as the fisher king and the wounded king of Arthurian mythos makes me squint in Mfrost's direction... :lol:
And who knows, if Forster weren't available maybe we would've had Harry as some sort of abstract kitchen appliance following Major Briggs around instead. They clearly cared for the character's centrality and wanted us to remember and care for him, and if DKL has shown us one thing with these recasts is that where there's a will there's a way :lol:

I wish I had the time to mount a good defense of Frank's presence. As is, I'll just say that I love to daydream about Harry's life (among others) and getting one whole brother to play around with is a blessing. Plus Doris! Extended family life! Connections! Fun stuff!
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Agent Earle wrote:Oh, and here's a link to that particular Frost interview: http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/twin-peaks ... interview/
I agree with Frost. Season Two did get off track for a few episodes but came back together beautifully at the end. I actually prefer Season 2 over Season 1.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by pinballmars »

mtwentz wrote:
IcedOver wrote:
bowisneski wrote:
I'm guessing you're probably not going to get the bluray or DVD, but I'd suggest watching the documentary if you can get your hands on it. While it probably won't change your mind on the show, it's interesting to hear how much more elaborate Lynch had planned some things to be and to see how angry he is at the Hollywood system and the tight shooting schedule and budget that were enforced on him. There's a part where he says he never wants to work like this again, and talks about how he only got to spend a day shooting all the stuff in the Home by the Sea and he would've liked to spend at least a week on it.
I don't have the BD yet, but if he's complaining, that's a tad silly. He had unprecedented control over a TV show. He's been in "the business" long enough to know how things work, and could have tailored things to meet circumstances. It couldn't be expected to have a large budget and long shooting schedule; that's just not how it works. He himself has said that "Inland" didn't make money for distributors, and that combined with relative inactivity for a decade, and bringing back a niche show, couldn't have meant the coffers would open up. Unless you're Spielberg or someone who has his own studio or producing apparatus, in exchange for creative freedom, you have to give up some stuff.
I don't think it's just about Lynch and The Return, he's probably voicing a concern a lot of directors are voicing in private about their individual productions. There will always be tension between the artists and the moneymen.

I remember when Arbogast was on this board, his source saying something to the effect that the production was 'ghetto', that they barely had enough money to pull the whole thing off. And we also heard a rumor that Lynch spent some of his own money to film something additional after the formal production schedule had ended. Not sure if that was true or not, but it seemed clear that Lynch got enough money to bring him back on board, but maybe just the bare minimum. Or heck, who knows, maybe he didn't get what he thought he needed and they forced him contractually to come back :-).
Yes. Also the "complaining" from Lynch strikes me as merely natural human moments from someone who's leading a massive production that's necessarily on a tight schedule (if only for economic reasons). It's a high pressure job and when things don't go perfectly, it's easy to lose your cool. It's probably a rare director who doesn't have moments like that, no matter how much or how little money is in the production.

Directors remind me of chefs. They may love what they're doing and directly benefit from their restaurant being busy, but when the place is packed, complicated orders are flying in and a few things are going wrong, they can say "Fuck this shit" while behind kitchen doors like anyone else.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

pinballmars wrote: Directors remind me of chefs. They may love what they're doing and directly benefit from their restaurant being busy, but when the place is packed, complicated orders are flying in and a few things are going wrong, they can say "Fuck this shit" while behind kitchen doors like anyone else.
As someone who regularly helps out in a pub kitchen, I can confirm this is true!! The catering industry is fucked up and insane, but, even though I’m in the media industry, most of my friends are in catering. ;)

That said, had Lynch and Frost had a decent script editor and generally decent editorial oversight, they might have pared back their script into six-nine tight, well-made episodes that could have focused on a place called Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by eyeboogers »

Gabriel wrote:
pinballmars wrote: Directors remind me of chefs. They may love what they're doing and directly benefit from their restaurant being busy, but when the place is packed, complicated orders are flying in and a few things are going wrong, they can say "Fuck this shit" while behind kitchen doors like anyone else.
As someone who regularly helps out in a pub kitchen, I can confirm this is true!! The catering industry is fucked up and insane, but, even though I’m in the media industry, most of my friends are in catering. ;)

That said, had Lynch and Frost had a decent script editor and generally decent editorial oversight, they might have pared back their script into six-nine tight, well-made episodes that could have focused on a place called Twin Peaks.
Which is what you wanted, but not what they wanted. Yet you blame them on a daily basis for following their artistic instinct. It is their lives, their creations and it is voluntary whether to be part of the audience or not.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Aqwell »

eyeboogers wrote:Which is what you wanted, but not what they wanted. Yet you blame them on a daily basis for following their artistic instinct. It is their lives, their creations and it is voluntary whether to be part of the audience or not.
Once again Eyeboogers you come after the disappointed fans in their own and only thread just because you can't stand to read bad reviews about a show you personally liked. Predictable, boring and sad little man. :|
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by eyeboogers »

Aqwell wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:Which is what you wanted, but not what they wanted. Yet you blame them on a daily basis for following their artistic instinct. It is their lives, their creations and it is voluntary whether to be part of the audience or not.
Once again Eyeboogers you come after the disappointed fans in their own and only thread just because you can't stand to read bad reviews about a show you personally liked. Predictable, boring and sad little man. :|
Oh dear. Hit a bit too close to home eh :-) To answer the question you didn't ask - I have seen other online fandoms devolve into near universal hate towards what they were originally founded to celebrate, because the kind of hate that's being spewed on this thread was allowed to fester. I don't want that to happen with "Twin Peaks". I particularly take aim at Gabriel (and one or two others) because they were being just as negative before the show premiered, and this person definitely had more than one profile. Therefore I have categorized them as trolls.
I also have no respect for those that do not respect artists and why they do what they do. That does in no way mean I don't condone constructive criticism, but that is not what is happening here. And there is no need for Gabriel to write the same things everyday, in this and many other threads.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

eyeboogers wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
pinballmars wrote: Directors remind me of chefs. They may love what they're doing and directly benefit from their restaurant being busy, but when the place is packed, complicated orders are flying in and a few things are going wrong, they can say "Fuck this shit" while behind kitchen doors like anyone else.
As someone who regularly helps out in a pub kitchen, I can confirm this is true!! The catering industry is fucked up and insane, but, even though I’m in the media industry, most of my friends are in catering. ;)

That said, had Lynch and Frost had a decent script editor and generally decent editorial oversight, they might have pared back their script into six-nine tight, well-made episodes that could have focused on a place called Twin Peaks.
Which is what you wanted, but not what they wanted. Yet you blame them on a daily basis for following their artistic instinct. It is their lives, their creations and it is voluntary whether to be part of the audience or not.
If their ‘artistic inastinct’ is objectively garbage then ill trash it happily. TPTR is objectively garbage and subjectively ‘good.’
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by eyeboogers »

Gabriel wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
As someone who regularly helps out in a pub kitchen, I can confirm this is true!! The catering industry is fucked up and insane, but, even though I’m in the media industry, most of my friends are in catering. ;)

That said, had Lynch and Frost had a decent script editor and generally decent editorial oversight, they might have pared back their script into six-nine tight, well-made episodes that could have focused on a place called Twin Peaks.
Which is what you wanted, but not what they wanted. Yet you blame them on a daily basis for following their artistic instinct. It is their lives, their creations and it is voluntary whether to be part of the audience or not.
If their ‘artistic inastinct’ is objectively garbage then ill trash it happily. TPTR is objectively garbage and subjectively ‘good.’
and how do you justify saying that? this is what I mean when I write that you are in no way offering constructive criticism.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

eyeboogers wrote:I particularly take aim at Gabriel (and one or two others) because they were being just as negative before the show premiered, and this person definitely had more than one profile. Therefore I have categorized them as trolls.
I also have no respect for those that do not respect artists and why they do what they do. That does in no way mean I don't condone constructive criticism, but that is not what is happening here. And there is no need for Gabriel to write the same things everyday, in this and many other threads.
Was I being negative? I had a bit of a meltdown when Lynch faux-quit, but I wanted the new show to be good. I have, to the best of my knowledge, not had more than one profile in the last decade and any past ones would be because I lost track of them in the early days of the internet. Dugpa are welcome to disclose that information if they want to do so since you claim to know it’s ‘definite’. Tarnish me based on my opinions, but don’t smear me with shit. Try to perpetuate your smears, so back it up with names, dates and IPs. I might be an asshole in your eyes, but I can’t believe anyone can be so pathetic as to make up such lies.
Last edited by Gabriel on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

eyeboogers wrote:
I also have no respect for those that do not respect artists and why they do what they do. That does in no way mean I don't condone constructive criticism, but that is not what is happening here. And there is no need for Gabriel to write the same things everyday, in this and many other threads.
And any arsehple can call themself an ‘artist’ and churn out crap. I don’t write the same things everyday. I’ve barely been here since the show ended.
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