Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Hester Prynne
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Hester Prynne »

And there's also DKL's decision to use one of the real life owners of the "Palmer" house as opposed to an actress, as well as the throwback to the driving scene from Vertigo - a movie about a man trying to recreate a woman that never existed.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by NormoftheAndes »

Hester Prynne wrote:And there's also DKL's decision to use one of the real life owners of the "Palmer" house as opposed to an actress, as well as the throwback to the driving scene from Vertigo - a movie about a man trying to recreate a woman that never existed.
This doesn't prove any of the ideas you're suggesting though. You seem to be pulling things out of the air!
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Hester Prynne
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Hester Prynne »

Ha, ha - wasn't aware I was trying to "prove" anything -- just responding to a very thoughtful post that I really enjoyed and has caused me to look at Ep. 18 in a whole new way.

People have noted the Vertigo influences going all the way back to the original series . . . and DKL's decision to use one of the real owners in that scene is pretty well known. These aren't things pulled out of the air.

If DKL and Frost didn't want us to question the reality of what we were watching and experiencing, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have included a superimposed Cooper face on the screen at the end of Ep. 17 saying "we live inside a dream," or the other countless dream references in TR, the original series, and FWWM.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Not to mention the “See you at the curtain call line,” and the highly metatextual Sunset Blvd. moment.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Audrey Horne »

Ugh , I know some of you love it.... but this season could’ve been so, so good. Good directorial moments because well, Lynch... but as a whole I think it’s a tragic, bloated mess. I’ve tried rewatching, and it’s harder for me than 1991 when I actually cried at the back end of season two of how far it had strayed.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Audrey Horne wrote:Ugh , I know some of you love it.... but this season could’ve been so, so good. Good directorial moments because well, Lynch... but as a whole I think it’s a tragic, bloated mess. I’ve tried rewatching, and it’s harder for me than 1991 when I actually cried at the back end of season two of how far it had strayed.
The Return is bloated in some areas, perhaps messy in other areas. Overall though, I think it hits artistic heights that surpass the original series in terms of audio/visual style and it is definitely an inner journey into the outer mind.

In my opinion,the chief attributes of The Return are the thought provoking questions it raises: what can be known and not known about our 'reality', what is the role of memory and identity in forming our perception of this reality, WHO are we really and of course, Is it FUTURE or is it PAST?

I have issues with some parts of The Return, namely the Mitchum Brothers and Candy, Sandy and Mandy are a little cartoonish at times for my taste.

But I can't really complain about a show that has provoked so much thoughtful discussion, and for me at least made me think outside the box about the nature of the world we live in.

The reason so many old fans hate the show, in my opinion, is that Lynch and Frost went out of their way to make the anti-soap opera. And I must admit, even I hungered for more of the soap opera elements at times. But ultimately I believe that what we got was better than anything we all imagined throughout the years (Hawk rescuing Coop from the Lodge, Coop defeating Bob and then riding off into the sunset with Audrey or Annie).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Audrey Horne »

I get that, and it’s wonderful for it to be a success and a joy for you. And remember though I am someone who hated the second half of the second season, and aside from the soundtrack is left cold from FWWM. What I loved about Peaks was how tight it was, like a drum, in that first season... yet still left my imagination roam. I think I was expecting with the pre planning Lynch and Frost did to be tight again.... with obviously it still being ambiguous, I just felt I was watching acting and filmmaking exercises. I’ll take and look at moments, but as a while I’m not lost in the story.

A little boy is mowed down in a hit and run. If this were the pilot in 1990, how does that pain reverberate through a small town... that ripple effect where it haunts everyone. Not saying ones opinion is right and ones wrong, just for me nothing really affected me in a moving way, more just cerebral while waiting for the next week’s installment.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by NormoftheAndes »

Audrey Horne wrote:I get that, and it’s wonderful for it to be a success and a joy for you. And remember though I am someone who hated the second half of the second season, and aside from the soundtrack is left cold from FWWM. What I loved about Peaks was how tight it was, like a drum, in that first season... yet still left my imagination roam. I think I was expecting with the pre planning Lynch and Frost did to be tight again.... with obviously it still being ambiguous, I just felt I was watching acting and filmmaking exercises. I’ll take and look at moments, but as a while I’m not lost in the story.

A little boy is mowed down in a hit and run. If this were the pilot in 1990, how does that pain reverberate through a small town... that ripple effect where it haunts everyone. Not saying ones opinion is right and ones wrong, just for me nothing really affected me in a moving way, more just cerebral while waiting for the next week’s installment.
But the boy being mowed down feels very staged and false. The response of onlookers looks like terrible bad acting - this is not just some accident on Lynch's part. The onlookers were locals and chosen for their poor acting I am pretty sure. None of this part of the show is comparable to the Laura repercussions and its treated very differently. What the meaning of the boy being run down is - that's another question! :D Maybe someone here has a better idea.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Audrey Horne »

Not really a “but” more of an “and” to my point ... quibble. But Harry Dean can sell anything.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Johnsusername »

HDS is one of the highlights of The Return. When he blows his whistle to get a ride haha.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

NormoftheAndes wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:I get that, and it’s wonderful for it to be a success and a joy for you. And remember though I am someone who hated the second half of the second season, and aside from the soundtrack is left cold from FWWM. What I loved about Peaks was how tight it was, like a drum, in that first season... yet still left my imagination roam. I think I was expecting with the pre planning Lynch and Frost did to be tight again.... with obviously it still being ambiguous, I just felt I was watching acting and filmmaking exercises. I’ll take and look at moments, but as a while I’m not lost in the story.

A little boy is mowed down in a hit and run. If this were the pilot in 1990, how does that pain reverberate through a small town... that ripple effect where it haunts everyone. Not saying ones opinion is right and ones wrong, just for me nothing really affected me in a moving way, more just cerebral while waiting for the next week’s installment.
But the boy being mowed down feels very staged and false. The response of onlookers looks like terrible bad acting - this is not just some accident on Lynch's part. The onlookers were locals and chosen for their poor acting I am pretty sure. None of this part of the show is comparable to the Laura repercussions and its treated very differently. What the meaning of the boy being run down is - that's another question! :D Maybe someone here has a better idea.
From a plot perspective, it's pretty clear what the accident means- it's the major event that eventually leads to Richard leaving town and confronting his father. It also gives us important insight to his character.

From an emotional standpoint, I think it's purpose is to show ultimately what havoc Cooper's choices have caused in Twin Peaks, the real human consequences- he has unleashed a monster upon the town. At least that's the emotion that I feel everytime I see that scene with the Badalamenti's moving Accident/Farewell theme.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Audrey Horne »

I totally agree with that in terms of plots - but again, i felt it was only a glimmer of a real exploration. What was a fascinating concept came off (to me) one of many dead end skim the surface of an idea scenario. -And Richard Horne was one of the only characters I felt was successful in this new season.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by NormoftheAndes »

mtwentz wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:I get that, and it’s wonderful for it to be a success and a joy for you. And remember though I am someone who hated the second half of the second season, and aside from the soundtrack is left cold from FWWM. What I loved about Peaks was how tight it was, like a drum, in that first season... yet still left my imagination roam. I think I was expecting with the pre planning Lynch and Frost did to be tight again.... with obviously it still being ambiguous, I just felt I was watching acting and filmmaking exercises. I’ll take and look at moments, but as a while I’m not lost in the story.

A little boy is mowed down in a hit and run. If this were the pilot in 1990, how does that pain reverberate through a small town... that ripple effect where it haunts everyone. Not saying ones opinion is right and ones wrong, just for me nothing really affected me in a moving way, more just cerebral while waiting for the next week’s installment.
But the boy being mowed down feels very staged and false. The response of onlookers looks like terrible bad acting - this is not just some accident on Lynch's part. The onlookers were locals and chosen for their poor acting I am pretty sure. None of this part of the show is comparable to the Laura repercussions and its treated very differently. What the meaning of the boy being run down is - that's another question! :D Maybe someone here has a better idea.
From a plot perspective, it's pretty clear what the accident means- it's the major event that eventually leads to Richard leaving town and confronting his father. It also gives us important insight to his character.

From an emotional standpoint, I think it's purpose is to show ultimately what havoc Cooper's choices have caused in Twin Peaks, the real human consequences- he has unleashed a monster upon the town. At least that's the emotion that I feel everytime I see that scene with the Badalamenti's moving Accident/Farewell theme.

I don't understand how Cooper has anything really to do with Richard Horne. Unless you do buy the whole idea of Mr C raping Audrey.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by eyeboogers »

NormoftheAndes wrote:
I don't understand how Cooper has anything really to do with Richard Horne. Unless you do buy the whole idea of Mr C raping Audrey.
What do you mean "buy", that conclusion is pretty evident both from the show and the Frost book. Why on earth would Mr.C refer to Richard as his "son" otherwise.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by NormoftheAndes »

eyeboogers wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:
I don't understand how Cooper has anything really to do with Richard Horne. Unless you do buy the whole idea of Mr C raping Audrey.
What do you mean "buy", that conclusion is pretty evident both from the show and the Frost book. Why on earth would Mr.C refer to Richard as his "son" otherwise.
My idea is that a huge part of season 3 and Frost's 'Final Dossier' is unreliable or so dreamlike that it can't be taken at face value. I don't see Mr. C even as being a real character at all but a figment of Cooper's imagination.
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