Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[boske]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

This will surely summon them here. From what I understood, they find that Esaserhead is the Lynch with no constraints. So if given free hand and big budget on any project, any content that comes out from him will look just like that. There.

[Venus]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

This will surely summon them here. .

Lol! Is it like if you say Voldermort?

[Rialto]

Random thought: is Norma's extra special cherry pie, made with local, organic ingredients, the only thing that can bring Coop back from Dougie-land?

Please don't fall into that trap, that's what L&F want you to do! They want you to spend all of your time thinking what will wake Dougie up and when, when they have no intention of making it happen until the very end, even if then.

You're right, Boske, I know - my brain is just trying to find some meaning where there is none!

I found myself in the car today, wondering "So, if that woman crying at James' song is his girlfriend, and he's still just got the one song to express his love with after all these years, does this mean that he's just got a lot of pure love to give and it doesn't matter to him who he gives it too, or does it mean his brain injury has left him unable to emotionally mature?"

Stop, brain, stop!

[Twin Peaks Podcast]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

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Everyone decrying those of us wanting nostalgia would go nuts if Coop woke up, saved Audrey from her "nightmare" and then they lived happily ever after. Mark my words.

[Rialto]

I was also thinking about the whole 18 hour movie thing - what kind of movies have these people been watching? It in no way follows the narrative structure of any movie I've seen.

18 hour video art installation, yes, I could see that. It reminds me of The Cremaster Cycle more than anything else I've seen.

And if Lynch intended it to be received as an 18 hour movie, why stipulate it be released in weekly instalments?

[LateReg]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

This will surely summon them here. From what I understood, they find that Esaserhead is the Lynch with no constraints. So if given free hand and big budget on any project, any content that comes out from him will look just like that. There.

I'll bite. You're on the right track. Obviously it's not about nostalgia as we don't want it to be like Eraserhead, it's about Lynch being unfiltered, following his muse, being in touch with the purest version of himself which he seems to have returned to with Inland Empire. An artist displaying a pure personal expression is what I'm after, warts and all. That's all there is to it.

A.k.a., I think The Return is a clear evolution of Lynch's style. A more minimal yet more extreme version of himself as Nevins said. But as pure as he's ever been, and I think that's incredibly rare for any filmmaker this far into their career.

[John Justice Wheeler]

It reminds me of The Cremaster Cycle more than anything else I've seen.

Yes, absolutely. I've been saying this for awhile. The shot of the gas pumps at Big Ed's reminded me of the gas station scene in Cremaster 2--clean, spare, supremely precise in its artifice--as does the convenience store in part 8. The sweeping scene recalled for me the guy slipping on the bubbles behind the bar in C3. Etc. Some cross pollination between Barney and Lynch seems appropriate.

[RedRum]

Hello.... is this thing on... IS THIS THING ON.....

[rugerblackhawk357]

on the last podcast, someone wrote that the drawn out scene with the french prostitute was the nation of france giving lynch a tax-break. i just don't know anymore. was this really unfiltered lynch? fargo season one and two actually gave me hope that television could rival the depth and vision of the movie industry. so when this was announced and lynch described it as an 18 hr movie, i was like "fuck yeah". not only is one of my favorite show back on tv, but in the age of fargo and true detective(season 1).

[LateReg]

on the last podcast, someone wrote that the drawn out scene with the french prostitute was the nation of france giving lynch a tax-break. i just don't know anymore. was this really unfiltered lynch? fargo season one and two actually gave me hope that television could rival the depth and vision of the movie industry. so when this was announced and lynch described it as an 18 hr movie, i was like "fuck yeah". not only is one of my favorite show back on tv, but in the age of fargo and true detective(season 1).

Ha I thought that was a joke when I had read that but I think any way you cut it that scene was pure Lynch...even if it was pure Lynch tedium to some. And the punchline was genuinely moving to me, like Lynch staring directly into Ferrer's eyes.

[Agent327]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

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Exactly.

And even more ironically, a lot of the 'excitement' that you get from the die-hard fans of "The Return" is of explicit nostalgic nature. Things like "OH my god, it was so amazing to see James again!". Or "When I saw Bobby I got goosebumps!"...."Cooper is drinking coffee again, this show is fantastic!". How are these things not overtly nostalgic?

But there is a double standard. If you are enthusiastic, if you're pro "The Return" you can say what you want. If you're critical of what in some minds NEED to be Lynch's masterpiece, then you're deeply irrational and a fool, not getting Lynch, and equipped with a brain functioning at such a low level, that you can only see the world through the lens of nostalgia.

If you criticize an episode, or just parts of it, that is automatically invalid because "It's an 18 hour movie, you can't judge an episode." Interestingly, you CAN praise the episodes. The show is per definition criticism fool proof in so many ways.

[boske]

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

This will surely summon them here. From what I understood, they find that Esaserhead is the Lynch with no constraints. So if given free hand and big budget on any project, any content that comes out from him will look just like that. There.

I'll bite. You're on the right track. Obviously it's not about nostalgia as we don't want it to be like Eraserhead, it's about Lynch being unfiltered, following his muse, being in touch with the purest version of himself which he seems to have returned to with Inland Empire. An artist displaying a pure personal expression is what I'm after, warts and all. That's all there is to it.

A.k.a., I think The Return is a clear evolution of Lynch's style. A more minimal yet more extreme version of himself as Nevins said. But as pure as he's ever been, and I think that's incredibly rare for any filmmaker this far into their career.

Thanks LateReg, I appreciate your response. The only thing I find unfortunate (not with you nor your response), is that Lynch has thus far largely trashed the old TP, and it would have been fairer had he said that he had again fallen in love with the world of Eraserhead or Inland Empire, and wanted to revisit that for a limited event, 9/18 hour movie. He would have easily gotten the funding for that, right? Especially with the LV detour and its insurance fraud.

Cheers, and let us try to enjoy part 14, it is almost here.

[cgs027]

It reminds me of The Cremaster Cycle more than anything else I've seen.

Yes, absolutely. I've been saying this for awhile. The shot of the gas pumps at Big Ed's reminded me of the gas station scene in Cremaster 2--clean, spare, supremely precise in its artifice--as does the convenience store in part 8. The sweeping scene recalled for me the guy slipping on the bubbles behind the bar in C3. Etc. Some cross pollination between Barney and Lynch seems appropriate.

I never actually made the connection before, but totally agree. I only saw one part of the Cremaster series (3?), but there was a scene with a guy trying to order a pint of beer where the bar was uneven, so the glass kept sliding off and the bartender kept pouring it over and over. Very much in line with some of the Dougie Jones "slapstick" business.

[cgs027]

Persistence does pay off, the reward is right around the corner!

Part 2: Ray, I want those coordinates;
Part 8: Ray, I want those coordinates;
Part 13: Ray, I want those coordinates;

Ha, this is one of the best things I've seen on this forum. And I am actually enjoying the season for the most part, but definitely agree that act 2 has been a bloated mess at times. Fingers crossed on the last few episodes. Just the fact that we basically get 2 more full length feature films from Lynch is crazy in and of itself.

[referendum]

But there is a double standard. If you are enthusiastic, if you're pro "The Return" you can say what you want. If you're critical of what in some minds NEED to be Lynch's masterpiece, then you're deeply irrational and a fool, not getting Lynch, and equipped with a brain functioning at such a low level, that you can only see the world through the lens of nostalgia.

right, so this is getting to the point where people's judgements are getting totally fucked up and binary. Maybe this is a sign of the times like Brexit and Trump where people feel they need to polarise their judgements because the people in the middle are ' snowflakes' or idiots.
Well i am one of the idiots in the middle. I have been reading this forum because i find this series fascinating at the same time as being very flawed. It is like have some highly skilled emo geek emotionally dump on you every week with no filters. You never know whether you are gonna get shit or shinola. I find it inspiring and cringe-making in equal part. Sometimes you get things that are perfectly made and sometimes you get stilted clumsy out-takes. Some of the acting is great and some is like a poor audition. Some scenes are perfectly constructed and filmed and others seem like fan fiction gone sour.
There is nothing about ''if you're pro "The Return" you can say what you want. If you're critical of what in some minds NEED to be Lynch's masterpiece, then you're deeply irrational and a fool, not getting Lynch'' - that is just paranoia. What there is is people coming at this from very different angles, the people who think it is objectively shite or constantly compare it to TP 1 and 2, and the other people who are like - ' thank fuck we have more from Lynch to puzzle over whatever it is'. In between these two poles...is....not a double standard. It is a difference. It has nothing to do with smart or not smart of some kind of stupid competition as to how to interpret it or respond to it or a ' brain functioning' competition. People have different tastes for fucks sake. Some people hate the bands at the roadhouse and other people love them. Some people think dougie story is tedious boring rubbish and other people seem to be quite attached to it as the most interesting part of the series. Some people celebrate the re-appearance of the old TP characters and other people find that the most depressing and glued-on aspect of this, as if it would have been better of without them ( a fair argument).

There is a really strong argument i think, that to present this as TWIN PEAKS #3 was a mistake. To me it is just another series by Lynch. Personally, I didn't and don't really care whether it has anything to do with the original TP or not. I recognise beyond that, that even taken on it's own terms as a separate thing, it it a weird awkward polarising clumsy thing that can't decide whether it is a really long film or the start of an endless shaggy dog story. Sometimes i think it is total shit and sometimes i think it is great. But nevertheless i am glued to the fucking screen and i want to know how it all sorts itself out in the last 5 hours even if it does turn out to be total bullshit.

So

whatever

ps - i am only typing this because i am killing time before the next episode goes online aaaaaaaaagh