Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:06 am

Warning: strong Laura/BOB material ahead.

From Laura’s diary, talking about her early childhood:

Sometime he would cut me between my legs, and other times he would cut me inside my mouth. Always tiny little cuts, hundreds of tiny little cuts. I had to use a flashlight in the bathroom or else my parents might wake up and see the light, and I’d be in worse trouble then.

Some nights he would make me sticky. Rub himself very fast, and he would say that I had to hold the sticky in my hands, close my eyes, and recite this little poem while I licked my hands clean. I only remember a little. This hasn’t happened for a long time, the sticky. He made made me say:

The little bitch
Is awfully sorry
The little bitch
Drinks you up

(I can’t remember more, except the last line.)

In this seed is death indeed.


Now think of the monster responsible for this being dispensed with by Green Glove.

A suggestion for anyone who doesn’t have a problem with this artistically or ethically. Maybe get a friend round who’s never watched any Lynch works and ask their thoughts about it.

The real point behind all my strong criticism: such storylines suggest that something unhealthy has happened to David Lynch. His artistic and ethical judgement can’t be trusted any more. Nor can his motives. The above storyline isn’t just bad art, or disastrous art. There’s something more that’s hard to name. Camp amorality taken to its limits? Something like that. For years Lynch has been called an insidious corrupting force with the critics wrapped round his little finger. I still don’t believe that’s valid criticism of the director who made the TP pilot or The Straight Story. But the one who made The Return?

Through her father a demon repeatedly takes an infant to the woods for cumplay, slices her privates, rapes her for years before bludgeoning her, her friend and her cousin to death, and his storyline’s climax isn’t just played for bellylaughs but as pinball/pantomime farce, and the critics give a standing ovation?

I don’t have much respect for the man behind storylines like this or the vicious portrayal of older women, or the incredible narcissism, someone who seems at best irresponsible and a bit pathetic and at worst maybe even something darker. And to paraphrase Kenneth Tynan, I’m not sure I could like someone who admires this stuff. Someone who likes Wally Brando or Tammy, sure – that’s just different taste. But someone who applauds storylines like BOB’s has probably been numbed and beguiled so far out into the wilfully perverse periphery that they’ve lost their moorings, or so it seems to me. Twin Peaks was always a way to click with people socially, but I doubt the same will be true of Green Glove whacking the perpetrator of Laura's cuts to the sound of Lynch’s sniggers.

So it’s time to move on and have a weekend cleanse with Spirit of the Beehive and Cria Cuervos and other healthy stuff. Then to learn this series’ anti-lessons, apply them in our own work and go on as though it never happened, and if possible to warn people away from even hearing about Green Glove v BOB and the retcon. Stories are already circulating about the upset they are causing.

And it’s true. The Return never happened. It was just the nightmare of a once great artist whose real work we’ll always have.

Thanks to the main contributors to this thread for keeping Twin Peaks commentary honest and moored. Over & out.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:12 am

AhmedKhalifa wrote:I don't know about Frost's upcoming book. TSHOTP was a grand disappointment to me. It went on and on about Lewis and Clark, Crowley, and Owl-like men, and most of the book was actually about Douglas Milford's adventures investigating UFOs! Twin Peaks got the short end of the stick. I think Frost is guilty of the same thing Lynch is with TPTR: Each basically used the brand name of TP to pursue their own obsessions and interests and sell it under the name of the only mass marketable product either of them was ever involved with. Whether they like it or not, TP is what they will both be forever known for in the eyes of the public, and they both know that. Lynch piggybacked on the popularity and prestige of the original series to basically make an 18 hour love letter to himself and things that turn him on, packaging it all as a continuation of TP, when, in truth, it was hardly that at all. It is at best a spin-off, in which the original characters didn't behave like themselves, or like human beings, for that matter. And Frost used TPs popularity to write a book that waxed poetic about his interest in boring X-Files types shenanigans, with only less than half the book about the residents of TP and their stories. Case in point: How's Annie???

I find myself hard pressed to disagree with anything you've written here. The thing is, when I watched the original show, I loved it for the town and the characters. The supernatural undertones were part of what made the show so great, but they weren't the be-all and end-all. Laura's diary dug well into the darkness of the inhabitants of the town. And that's the weirdest thing; I get unpleasant remarks from Lynch talifans for suggesting that I might possibly want the town of Twin Peaks to be the focus of a show called 'Twin Peaks.'

For me, the thing that went wrong in season two was the increasing number of outsiders coming into the series. Instead of a series about a picture postcard town with a seething underbelly of corruption, the second season moved into a vein of 'those damn fine folks of Twin Peaks battling evil outsiders.' My ideal season three would have been set entirely within the town and almost entirely featured characters who lived in the town. I would have had the evil Cooper storyline dealt with as backstory – ie Major Briggs died bringing back the good Dale and Dale was sufficiently traumatised that he left the town seemingly never to return. I would have had a recently-retired Dale return to the town to face his demons and get caught up in new intrigue.

At the end of the day, other than the unpopular Evelyn story and the Theresa Banks sequence in the spin-off movie, we had seen little of the world outside the town. Given Lynch and Frost created this rich environment of the town and its people, I find it staggering they have so little interest in actually making a show about the town. The whole thing screams of being a vanity project (as writer, producer director and, let's be honest, star of the show, Lynch must have coined it in!) and like most vanity project it's a gigantic failure.
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wxray
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:14 am

Ultimately, I end disappointed.

There were brilliant parts and pieces. Episodes 3 and 8, for example.

Otherwise, the pretentiousness of the Lynch/Frost team was just too obtuse for me. Too much focus on abstraction (Lynch), and social commentary (Frost). I don't care about infowars or views on handguns, I care about Damn Fine Coffee. Where's the lighthearted humor? Freddie? Seriously??? And geez, Lynch, can you make it just a bit more accessible? I guess not. Congratulations, your 69 year old brain (at the time) sees things mine doesn't. You win. Thanks for letting us know you "are not soft where it counts."

Those looking for a season 4 to tie up loose ends. Ha ha ha. Take 430 paces out your back yard and try some TM instead. Maybe a vision will come to you.
Last edited by wxray on Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:18 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:Warning: strong Laura/BOB material ahead.

Now think of the monster responsible for this being dispensed with by Green Glove.

A suggestion for anyone who doesn’t have a problem with this artistically or ethically. Maybe get a friend round who’s never watched any Lynch works and ask their thoughts about it.

The real point behind all my strong criticism: such storylines suggest that something unhealthy has happened to David Lynch. His artistic and ethical judgement can’t be trusted any more. Nor can his motives. The above storyline isn’t just bad art, or disastrous art. There’s something more that’s hard to name. Camp amorality taken to its limits? Something like that. For years Lynch has been called an insidious corrupting force with the critics wrapped round his little finger. I still don’t believe that’s valid criticism of the director who made the TP pilot or The Straight Story. But the one who made The Return?

Through her father a demon repeatedly takes an infant to the woods for cumplay, slices her privates, rapes her for years before bludgeoning her, her friend and her cousin to death, and his storyline’s climax isn’t just played for bellylaughs but as pinball/pantomime farce, and the critics give a standing ovation?

I don’t have much respect for the man behind storylines like this or the vicious portrayal of older women, or the incredible narcissism, someone who seems at best irresponsible and a bit pathetic and at worst maybe even something darker. And to paraphrase Kenneth Tynan, I’m not sure I could like someone who admires this stuff. Someone who likes Wally Brando or Tammy, sure – that’s just different taste. But someone who applauds storylines like BOB’s has probably been numbed and beguiled so far out into the wilfully perverse periphery that they’ve lost their moorings, or so it seems to me. Twin Peaks was always a way to click with people socially, but I doubt the same will be true of Green Glove whacking the perpetrator of Laura's cuts to the sound of Lynch’s sniggers.

So it’s time to move on and have a weekend cleanse with Spirit of the Beehive and Cria Cuervos and other healthy stuff. Then to learn this series’ anti-lessons, apply them in our own work and go on as though it never happened, and if possible to warn people away from even hearing about Green Glove v BOB and the retcon. Stories are already circulating about the upset they are causing.

And it’s true. The Return never happened. It was just the nightmare of a once great artist whose real work we’ll always have.

Thanks to the main contributors to this thread for keeping Twin Peaks commentary honest and moored. Over & out.

Absolutely. In reducing the BOB aspect to a farce, Lynch has offended me by diminishing everything Laura suffered. It's also completely screwed over FWWM, which I consider to be one of his finest films. I would say TPTR looks like expensive bad fan fiction, bit fan fiction is made out of love for something. TPTR is cold, cynical and plain nasty.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:24 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:A suggestion for anyone who doesn’t have a problem with this artistically or ethically. Maybe get a friend round who’s never watched any Lynch works and ask their thoughts about it.

The real point behind all my strong criticism: such storylines suggest that something unhealthy has happened to David Lynch.

I edited out your post simply to save space. It is duplicated a few times above. Basically, I agree with all of it.

Set that aside against too much Lynch screen time with him frolicking with one of his muses (Christa), goofing around with the French woman, and making side comments about his (oh, I mean GORDON made them) man hood, and I'm seriously disturbed.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:29 am

Gabriel wrote:Absolutely. In reducing the BOB aspect to a farce, Lynch has offended me by diminishing everything Laura suffered. It's also completely screwed over FWWM, which I consider to be one of his finest films. I would say TPTR looks like expensive bad fan fiction, bit fan fiction is made out of love for something. TPTR is cold, cynical and plain nasty.


Yeah, I'm wary of the word 'offensive' in art but here we're surely close to something like that. And again, I'm convinced it's deliberate on the part of Lynch.

Anyway, Gabriel, this is not my battle any more. I'm offski. You've fought the good fight, brilliantly, as have many others here. Imagine we'd never had this place to find some sane reflection.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:31 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
Gabriel wrote:Absolutely. In reducing the BOB aspect to a farce, Lynch has offended me by diminishing everything Laura suffered. It's also completely screwed over FWWM, which I consider to be one of his finest films. I would say TPTR looks like expensive bad fan fiction, bit fan fiction is made out of love for something. TPTR is cold, cynical and plain nasty.


Yeah, I'm wary of the word 'offensive' in art but here we're surely close to something like that. And again, I'm convinced it's deliberate on the part of Lynch.

Anyway, Gabriel, this is not my battle any more. I'm offski. You've fought the good fight, brilliantly, as have many others here. Imagine we'd never had this place to find some sane reflection.


Yes, I was supposed to be checking out a couple of days ago. I go on holiday tomorrow, so that'll be that.

Look after yourself. :)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:41 am

wxray wrote:I edited out your post simply to save space. It is duplicated a few times above. Basically, I agree with all of it.

Set that aside against too much Lynch screen time with him frolicking with one of his muses (Christa), goofing around with the French woman, and making side comments about his (oh, I mean GORDON made them) man hood, and I'm seriously disturbed.


Hi wxray.

I remember you were the first person I debated in this thread. IIRC you've travelled a bit from your early near neutrality.

Lynch has lost the plot, mate. Somebody get the old guy off the stage. He's tainting himself as a man and artist, his cast, co-creatives, audience, critics, his early masterpieces and his legacy.

That's the downside. The upside is he's given us lots of sentences we never thought we'd type.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:45 am

Ah too many goodbyes. So sad :cry: It doesn't have to be goodbye ABRC and Gabriel. Just au revoir for the moment you lovely people :)

PS did Cole really say that line about his bits? Which episode and scene was that in because I missed it! :lol:
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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:53 am

Venus wrote:Ah too many goodbyes. So sad :cry: It doesn't have to be goodbye ABRC and Gabriel. Just au revoir for the moment you lovely people :)

PS did Cole really say that line about his bits? Which episode and scene was that in because I missed it! :lol:


See ya for now, Venus. I may in future hire you to coach me in shutting down net nutters politely. :)
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:55 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
Venus wrote:Ah too many goodbyes. So sad :cry: It doesn't have to be goodbye ABRC and Gabriel. Just au revoir for the moment you lovely people :)

PS did Cole really say that line about his bits? Which episode and scene was that in because I missed it! :lol:


See ya for now, Venus. I may in future hire you to coach me in shutting down net nutters politely. :)


:wink:
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Aqwell
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Aqwell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:06 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The real point behind all my strong criticism: such storylines suggest that something unhealthy has happened to David Lynch. His artistic and ethical judgement can’t be trusted any more. Nor can his motives. The above storyline isn’t just bad art, or disastrous art.
If you're talking about Laura's Secret Diary, the book was written by Jennifer Lynch, his daughter.

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:Through her father a demon repeatedly takes an infant to the woods for cumplay, slices her privates, rapes her for years before bludgeoning her...
Just to be precise, Teresa was bludgeoned but Laura was stabbed.

For the record I erased almost all the episodes of (fake) Twin Peaks The Return. I just kept episode 8 and the convenience store scene from episode 15. I thought to keep some scenes in the Blacklodge or the Mauve room but... nope, there's always something that bugs me.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ShelleyAgedWell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:16 am

Venus wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
Cipher wrote:I'd never tell anyone they can't dislike the show -- at all. But I haven't seen a personal vein to posts expressing appreciation for it in the way I have on every one of the last few pages here, where the critical background of those who like it has repeatedly come under attack. There's this weird assumption that anyone who liked it or was moved by it was posturing, or doesn't have a background in fiction or art, and both are borderline offensive and new to this topic since the finale.

If The Return didn't speak to you, or you if you have critical reservations, that's fine. No need to scrutinize the motivations of those who had a different reaction.


i agree.. i've thrown some heavy criticism in a few of the episodes thread and never once have i been shut down for it. people are very welcome to challenge any reservations or praise i have but this idea that those who have been critical of the show elsewhere than this thread are being hounded and chased with pitchforks doesn't seem consistant with reality. i can't speak for Reddit, WTT and Facebook but on here i feel for the most part the discussion has been civilized and i hope we can keep that up. Dugpa is by far one of the most civilized and polite internet forums i have ever been a part of, let's keep it that way


I disagree. I was in the main threads here in the early days of the run and some things said to me were awful enough to drive me to tears and to temporarily leave the board - it was bullying. Such horrible responses if I dared to criticise or express my disappointment. I was so grateful when mlsstwrt started this thread which is why I was the first poster on here after him. It was good to have a thread where you could express yourself if you weren't so enamoured with the new series as others were. A thread where you didn't have to get shot down in flames for expressing your opinion and disappointment in the show. So I decided to stick to this thread rather than, 'Clogging up the boards' with posts expressing disappointment or criticism, as posts from anyone who was disappointed were once described.

Separately to the above, an interesting FAQ/Summarisation of plot thingy from Empire magazine on the show here: http://www.empireonline.com/movies/feat ... -answered/ They seem rather perplexed by it all :wink:


That was a really good read. However, with regards to this part -

In a horrible and brilliantly acted scene, tulpa Diane reveals that Bad Cooper raped “her” (i.e. real Diane) and then took her to the Black Lodge, where she was imprisoned as Naido. BOB then made a Diane tulpa.


Bob taking her to the Black Lodge, and imprisoning her as Naido is only a theory, right? I only recall tulpa Diane saying she was raped. It was never confirmed how, or for what purpose tulpa Diane was created, or how/why the real Diane manifested as Naido.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:21 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
wxray wrote:I edited out your post simply to save space. It is duplicated a few times above. Basically, I agree with all of it.

Set that aside against too much Lynch screen time with him frolicking with one of his muses (Christa), goofing around with the French woman, and making side comments about his (oh, I mean GORDON made them) man hood, and I'm seriously disturbed.


Hi wxray.

I remember you were the first person I debated in this thread. IIRC you've travelled a bit from your early near neutrality.

Lynch has lost the plot, mate. Somebody get the old guy off the stage. He's tainting himself as a man and artist, his cast, co-creatives, audience, critics, his early masterpieces and his legacy.

That's the downside. The upside is he's given us lots of sentences we never thought we'd type.


Let's just say this has been a "journey" for me too. I've had my ups and downs. This ultimately ended for me on a big old down. A week hasn't helped either. I'm seeing all these theories and whatever. Doesn't help. There was simply too much wrong with this. I think I need to admit it in public: "I'm wxray, and I'm Profoundly Disappointed."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:30 am

Venus wrote:Ah too many goodbyes. So sad :cry: It doesn't have to be goodbye ABRC and Gabriel. Just au revoir for the moment you lovely people :)

PS did Cole really say that line about his bits? Which episode and scene was that in because I missed it! :lol:


First minute of Part 17:

Albert: You've gone soft in your old age.
Gordon: What?
Albert: I SAID, YOU'VE GONE SOFT IN YOUR OLD AGE.
Gordon: Not where it counts, buddy.

It is innuendo, not an exact description of his bits.

And for some reason, it bothered me, sadly. The other graphic sex, use of the c--t word, etc. didn't bother me at all. I found this line unfunny and kind of creepy.

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