Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

mlsstwrt
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:35 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Wed May 24, 2017 1:46 pm

Doppler wrote:OK David I see that Season 3 is one big fuck-you to the fans and you're practically mocking us every other scene, but...

Turning Lucy and Andy into complete retards? That's a step too far.


Maybe Lynch actually does hate us?

Edit: Maybe the good Lynch is in the Lodge while the evil Lynch derides fans at every turn only for their adulation to increase further, thereby fueling his terrible derision?
Last edited by mlsstwrt on Wed May 24, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed May 24, 2017 1:47 pm

Doppler wrote:OK David I see that Season 3 is one big fuck-you to the fans and you're practically mocking us every other scene, but...

Turning Lucy and Andy into complete retards? That's a step too far.


I see innocence in them.
Last knights of a slower, simpler world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
LurkerAtTheThreshold
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:02 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Wed May 24, 2017 3:25 pm

mlsstwrt wrote:LurkerAtTheThreshold - I
I didn't just admire Twin Peaks from a detached, intellectual standpoint. I was head over heels in love with it. But I don't know how anyone can be head over heels in love with this. I too have the terrible sense that Lynch is mocking both fans and what went before. Which is why I said there's almost a cruelty to this.
I think the original Twin Peaks found a perfect balance for me between esoteric art and accessibility. The first series didn't always make any kind of logical sense but it was emotionally extremely coherent. This just feels lifeless and devoid of any hope.



That's exactly how I feel. It does feel cruel. For me that's the most horrifying part, I think I could embrace the fantasy dream world more if it wasn't so hostile. Twin Peaks had a malevolent force in the woods, but the light and love and excitement that poured out of the characters almost redeemed that evil. This is just evil laughing victorious over the battlefield.

I hope I'm wrong about Lynch, and other people are right, maybe he is building a mood, and the Bobby scene is not a parody, but a slow awakening of feelings which seem to be lacking in the new show. I don't know, I struggle to imagine this crawling back from the pitt it set up. Cooper is too corrupted to be good again, and there's just so many grotesque murders to recover from emotionally. It's an assault to the senses.
Like someone else said, the revival of Laura Palmer, does feel like torturing a character who was mercifully put to rest, and dragging her back into unnecessary pain. Lynch really should have let Laura go this season imo
User avatar
Thatfabulousalien
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Thatfabulousalien » Wed May 24, 2017 3:34 pm

What I want to know (as I am completely loving the new series), is where did you expect/want it to go after all the intense, surreal and "supernatural" stuff that was building up towards the end of season two?

(you realize it has gradually been leading up to it right?)
User avatar
LurkerAtTheThreshold
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:02 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Wed May 24, 2017 3:45 pm

wxray wrote:After reading a bunch of posts here, I realize that those who read the Frost books have a different perspective and came in expecting even more.
That's not a criticism, just an observation. I didn't read any of his books.


This is very true for me. If nothing else, Frosts book set up of the history of the ring, and the representation of old facts, the two dossiers and hidden clues all pointed to some new mystery which smelt like the old world of Twin Peaks. I wonder if what we're seeing is much like the script Frost and Lynch penned. I can actually see Frost writing the cube/alien stuff as it fits with his interests, but it feels like this final work is far removed from what was scripted. Distant. Elements of a script can be gaged, floating aimlessly behind the surreal montage. But it's almost as if Lynch hated the script and is manipulating it, like he did in the final episode of Season 3. Altering it to fit the aesthetic he likes right now.
That was great in the season finale, but it's not working here. A series really needs a tight first few episodes to convey a sense of place, urgency and drama. I feel like he's totally dropped the ball.

As for aesthetics, what surprises me is how unoriginal this feels. Twin peaks always felt like a mish mash of different things, that was what made it so great. But this series almost feels like it's over confident, often it feels like it thinks it's breaking the mould when actually it feels like a rehash of a lot of 90's movies or more recent shows.
Obviously the slow pace and grey tone makes it feel like Fargo. We don't need a new Fargo though, We've already got one. A lot of the police scenes have a very banal cop drama feel, like Law and Order, and the gruesome murder aesthetic feels like a stale, non effective true detective or 'Seven' rip off.

I quite liked this Vulture article about the new series, even though it was a lot more positive than I was, it articulated a lot of the way I felt about the aesthetic and what the first four episodes really said to the audience;

http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/twin-pea ... eturn.html

I particularly liked these quotes;

"It’s often impossible to tell how seriously Lynch is taking this sort of stuff — if he’s deploying it mainly for shock effect (as seems to be the case with the prolonged hotel room murder in the show’s second hour, a sub–Stephen King bit of sadism) or if he’s sincerely working through his own demons, or someone else’s, in the only way he knows how. It’s also unclear which of the prolonged, sound-and-light driven set pieces in the premiere were meant to push the narrative in a certain direction or which were meant as daringly self-contained spectacles that exist mainly so that we can argue about what they meant and whether they were brilliant, indulgent or something else. (More likely the latter, and there are plenty more where they came from.)
Regardless, it became clear early in the first hour that this wasn’t going to be the sort of show you can half-watch while doing other things, nor was it the sort of show that rewards certified public accountant–style fanboy viewing, where you add up all the clues and then announce on Reddit that you’ve “figured it out.”"

"His colleagues can’t help being impressed, maybe awed, at the extremes to which he pushes the medium, but it’s less a case of Lynch’s peers clapping him on the back and saying “attaboy” than something more akin to them periodically dropping a gold statue into the maw of a volcano as tribute to a dark sorcerer whose powers and motives they can’t comprehend."

"I bet Stan Brakhage would have liked the new Twin Peaks. I also bet that the majority of people tuning into the new Twin Peaks don’t want the 2017 equivalent of a Stan Brakhage film for TV. The joke’s on them, or on me, or maybe it’s on Lynch; I don’t know. The owls are not what they seem."
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed May 24, 2017 3:49 pm

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:Like someone else said, the revival of Laura Palmer, does feel like torturing a character who was mercifully put to rest, and dragging her back into unnecessary pain. Lynch really should have let Laura go this imo


I completely disagree with this. Laura is and will always be fundamental for the story of Twin Peaks. Her murder destroyed the order, and her spirit can't and won't leave. Ever.

Amazing lovecraftian nickname !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
mtsi
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Wed May 24, 2017 3:52 pm

Gabriel wrote:
StrangerDanger wrote:Impressive theory!


So the series will end with Coop pulling Laura alive from the water outside the Martell's house? ;)

Not far off.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
We live inside a dream.
User avatar
mtsi
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Wed May 24, 2017 4:14 pm

The only thing that actually bothers me, so far, is the lack of music in all scenes. Sure, many themes were majorly overplayed in the original but the stark silence has been tough to overcome. It makes every scene feel like we are watching a stage play.

I didn't sign up for a stage play.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
We live inside a dream.
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed May 24, 2017 4:43 pm

mtsi wrote:The only thing that actually bothers me, so far, is the lack of music in all scenes. Sure, many themes were majorly overplayed in the original but the stark silence has been tough to overcome. It makes every scene feel like we are watching a stage play.

I didn't sign up for a stage play.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It will come back with Twin Peaks. If you notice the Badalamenti music is when the old TP is on screen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agent327
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent327 » Wed May 24, 2017 7:08 pm

Doppler wrote:OK David I see that Season 3 is one big fuck-you to the fans and you're practically mocking us every other scene, but...

Turning Lucy and Andy into complete retards? That's a step too far.


Maybe that's to compensate for the lack of humor in the new show.

It has very little, if any humor. SO far. It is a quite cynical, dry, slow paced grey affair. The character of Gordon Cole himself, compared to every scene of his in the old TP is a good micro example, showing what the tone of the show is now.

The old TP seemed at times to be a love letter to the world. This feels like the complete opposite.

But it could change....somewhat. I'd urge people to be optimistic for this reason:

You have to remember, we are now, story-wise in a dark place. That is not without relevance. You have evil Coop causing chaos, the surreal and twisted black lodge and alternative worlds playing a big role due to good Coop's circumstance.

Just to make myself clear; I do not believe that Lynch is able to recreate what makes people break out the donuts and the coffee, what makes them dress up as these characters at conventions etc.

There IS a noticeable lack of 'feel' for that, doesn't seem like the touch is there...but also probably a lack of willingness to even go there. Not because Lynch gets a tremendous kick out of giving fans the middle finger......more likely because he felt like he already showcased that side enough.

But I have to assume that it will eventually get a bit lighter and more welcoming, and that ultimately a lot of people will come around to this season if they stick with it.
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed May 24, 2017 7:15 pm

delete
Last edited by yaxomoxay on Wed May 24, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Agent Earle
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 pm

mtsi wrote:The only thing that actually bothers me, so far, is the lack of music in all scenes. Sure, many themes were majorly overplayed in the original but the stark silence has been tough to overcome. It makes every scene feel like we are watching a stage play.

I didn't sign up for a stage play.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


YES! A "stage play" is definitely the most perfect term to describe what I've witnessed of the new series so far (the first hour). That Ben & Jerry Horne sequence, for instance - God, what a deplorable thing (can't imagine how Lynch and Frost thought this was going to work when they wrote it)! I feel downright sorry for Beymer and Kelly that they had to degrade themselves to the level of that abomination...
Metamorphia
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:52 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Thu May 25, 2017 4:06 am

Agent327 wrote:
Doppler wrote:OK David I see that Season 3 is one big fuck-you to the fans and you're practically mocking us every other scene, but...

Turning Lucy and Andy into complete retards? That's a step too far.


Maybe that's to compensate for the lack of humor in the new show.

It has very little, if any humor. SO far. It is a quite cynical, dry, slow paced grey affair. The character of Gordon Cole himself, compared to every scene of his in the old TP is a good micro example, showing what the tone of the show is now.

The old TP seemed at times to be a love letter to the world. This feels like the complete opposite.

But it could change....somewhat. I'd urge people to be optimistic for this reason:

You have to remember, we are now, story-wise in a dark place. That is not without relevance. You have evil Coop causing chaos, the surreal and twisted black lodge and alternative worlds playing a big role due to good Coop's circumstance.

Just to make myself clear; I do not believe that Lynch is able to recreate what makes people break out the donuts and the coffee, what makes them dress up as these characters at conventions etc.

There IS a noticeable lack of 'feel' for that, doesn't seem like the touch is there...but also probably a lack of willingness to even go there. Not because Lynch gets a tremendous kick out of giving fans the middle finger......more likely because he felt like he already showcased that side enough.

But I have to assume that it will eventually get a bit lighter and more welcoming, and that ultimately a lot of people will come around to this season if they stick with it.


I think it's very funny, albeit in a different way to the comedy of the original series. It's more in a Mulholland Drive kinda way ("Chip ain't got no phone!", the interaction with the woman with the dog) - it's kinda disjointed humour, goofy but in a different way to the initial Twin Peaks goofiness. The scene with the hitman in MD could be something right out of the premiere. And Coop in the casino is VERY funny, but that's more slapstick. But yeah, it's much more akin to later Lynch movies humour (Inland Empire too - "Where are the paper towels?" and all that)

Like you say though, I think it's obvious the series is going to be about the journey back "home" for Coop - and that's such a beautiful Lynchian Wizard of Ozian thing. I think (hope) that people will be able to re-judge this as time goes on, and those who are disappointed will be able to come around when they watch everything back.
mlsstwrt
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:35 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Thu May 25, 2017 6:59 am

Metamorphia wrote:
Agent327 wrote:
Doppler wrote:OK David I see that Season 3 is one big fuck-you to the fans and you're practically mocking us every other scene, but...

Turning Lucy and Andy into complete retards? That's a step too far.


Maybe that's to compensate for the lack of humor in the new show.

It has very little, if any humor. SO far. It is a quite cynical, dry, slow paced grey affair. The character of Gordon Cole himself, compared to every scene of his in the old TP is a good micro example, showing what the tone of the show is now.

The old TP seemed at times to be a love letter to the world. This feels like the complete opposite.

But it could change....somewhat. I'd urge people to be optimistic for this reason:

You have to remember, we are now, story-wise in a dark place. That is not without relevance. You have evil Coop causing chaos, the surreal and twisted black lodge and alternative worlds playing a big role due to good Coop's circumstance.

Just to make myself clear; I do not believe that Lynch is able to recreate what makes people break out the donuts and the coffee, what makes them dress up as these characters at conventions etc.

There IS a noticeable lack of 'feel' for that, doesn't seem like the touch is there...but also probably a lack of willingness to even go there. Not because Lynch gets a tremendous kick out of giving fans the middle finger......more likely because he felt like he already showcased that side enough.

But I have to assume that it will eventually get a bit lighter and more welcoming, and that ultimately a lot of people will come around to this season if they stick with it.


I think it's very funny, albeit in a different way to the comedy of the original series. It's more in a Mulholland Drive kinda way ("Chip ain't got no phone!", the interaction with the woman with the dog) - it's kinda disjointed humour, goofy but in a different way to the initial Twin Peaks goofiness. The scene with the hitman in MD could be something right out of the premiere. And Coop in the casino is VERY funny, but that's more slapstick. But yeah, it's much more akin to later Lynch movies humour (Inland Empire too - "Where are the paper towels?" and all that)

Like you say though, I think it's obvious the series is going to be about the journey back "home" for Coop - and that's such a beautiful Lynchian Wizard of Ozian thing. I think (hope) that people will be able to re-judge this as time goes on, and those who are disappointed will be able to come around when they watch everything back.


I hope so too. It's pretty sad/alarming if the world we're seeing in the new Twin Peaks is how Lynch sees the world today compared to when he made the original. But maybe he does and maybe the world is a much worse place.

I think part of this is so affecting because, yeah, from a personal point of view when I saw the original I was 13 and had absolutely everything ahead of me. Now I'm nearing 40 and I can't really say I still have everything ahead. So the downright hostility/cruelty of this new Twin Peaks isn't helping my midlife angst!
pinefloat
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:28 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby pinefloat » Thu May 25, 2017 7:25 am

I was coping until Part 4.

Although I agree with all the comments about lack of empathy for characters, and the overall tone and pace... Parts 1,2,3 had a few moments of genuine intrigue, atmosphere, originality and general creepiness. Enough to keep me hooked.

But Episode Four. The acting. The awful framing of each shot. The Cera scene. The unfunny jokes. There's no warmth or humour or passion. It feels so sloppily made. There were some truly awful scenes in that episode - were it not TP, I would want quit watching right now.

And yet we know he still CAN make material that's compelling, with strong acting, story, emotion... like a few of the Lillard scenes in Part 2.

So I find myself asking the worst possible question:

Would we have seen something better, if Lynch had indeed walked away from the project?

Return to “Season 3 (2017) The Return (Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests