Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Troubbble
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:23 am

Multiple people unashamedly bashing Mullholland Drive? No wonder I can't get down with you people! Wow...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:42 pm

[quote="Kilmoore"]The way I see it is that in S3, Cooper traveled back in time to stop Laura from being killed. But that didn't happen since S1 and S2 still exist./quote]

In Season 3 Cooper has a plan to save Laura by effectively erasing her death, he fails to do so because of Judy's meddling. There is no timeline in which Laura isn't killed.
Kilmoore
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:05 pm

eyeboogers wrote:In Season 3 Cooper has a plan to save Laura by effectively erasing her death, he fails to do so because of Judy's meddling. There is no timeline in which Laura isn't killed.

There is absolutely no way we know this for certain.
nimeoa
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby nimeoa » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:34 am

I can't see myself watching the original run or Fire Walk With Me any time in the near future. Season 3 sorta drained my passion for the show. If David Lynch doesn't give a shit about it then why should I? I recall that interview from some years back that had Lynch, Madchen, and Kyle. At the end they said something along the lines of "David, how would you describe your feelings of the series in 7 words or less?" To which he replied "I love Twin Peaks and it's world."

And to show that love he systematically destroyed it's characters, world, and lore.

Bravo.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Eva Marie » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:55 am

I've just marathoned (more like sprinted cause it's so short) Enlightened. It's remarkable how in just 9 hours of screentime Laura Dern and Mike White managed to create something so profound, relevant and life-affirming. With just half of TR's running time and a brand-new story!! Mind-boggling, isn't it? And I'm not even a true fan of the show - I just really appreciate it.

I've commented before that the current incarnation of MacLachlan is far too good for the current Lynch. Same seems to go for Laura. DL seems to be an embarassment for his cohort of favourites these days.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Eva Marie » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:03 am

BGate wrote:
Eva Marie wrote:VERY interesting observations from Frost. It makes perfect sense that the only 2 Lynch projects that gained mainstream success were collaborations: TP and Elephant Man (the script was written by someone else).


He was nominated for an Oscar for Mulholland Dr. and Blue Velvet. I'd say that's about as mainstream as it gets.


Elephant Man received a slew of Oscar noms - that's why I included it. I'll grant you Mulholland Dr., but Blue Velvet was always an indie success. It got a lot of buzz and has stood the test of time, but its status can best described as "The little movie that could".
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Eva Marie » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:15 am

Count me in as another fan of MD. I was mesmerized by it and didn't even try to make any sense of it. That was the 1st thing I watched after TP when I decided to seek out more Lynch. After those 2 I was convinced that the man was the best thing since the invention of the movie camera. Sadly, since then I've only been able to get through Blue Velvet with full attention after nibbling on several other DL works. In retrospect, I think Naomi Watts had a lot to do with making MD a success.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:42 am

Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:In Season 3 Cooper has a plan to save Laura by effectively erasing her death, he fails to do so because of Judy's meddling. There is no timeline in which Laura isn't killed.

There is absolutely no way we know this for certain.


The episode is very clear on this. Coop lays out his plan ("I'm taking you home"), we start seeing the effect that this would have, and then Judy intervenes - Laura does not make it home, and the plan fails.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:07 am

eyeboogers wrote:
Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:In Season 3 Cooper has a plan to save Laura by effectively erasing her death, he fails to do so because of Judy's meddling. There is no timeline in which Laura isn't killed.

There is absolutely no way we know this for certain.


The episode is very clear on this. Coop lays out his plan ("I'm taking you home"), we start seeing the effect that this would have, and then Judy intervenes - Laura does not make it home, and the plan fails.


I don’t know that Coop was ever planning on Laura making it “home” if you mean the Palmer house. He seems to be leading her to the gold pool/portal to the Fireman’s quarters, presumably to use as a weapon against Judy (“two birds, one stone”). If he took her home, Leland/Bob would continue raping her and probably eventually kill her anyway. I think when he said they were going “home,” he meant the White Lodge.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:44 am

eyeboogers wrote:
Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:In Season 3 Cooper has a plan to save Laura by effectively erasing her death, he fails to do so because of Judy's meddling. There is no timeline in which Laura isn't killed.

There is absolutely no way we know this for certain.


The episode is very clear on this. Coop lays out his plan ("I'm taking you home"), we start seeing the effect that this would have, and then Judy intervenes - Laura does not make it home, and the plan fails.

Judy intervening is just a theory. No character states this nor do we see anything pointing towards Judy. We know next to nothing about Judy in the first place.

Yes, there are the scratching sounds but they're not established to be related to Judy.

This is my main problem with S3. Everything is just a fan theory since the answers just don't exist.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:48 am

Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Kilmoore wrote:There is absolutely no way we know this for certain.


The episode is very clear on this. Coop lays out his plan ("I'm taking you home"), we start seeing the effect that this would have, and then Judy intervenes - Laura does not make it home, and the plan fails.

Judy intervening is just a theory. No character states this nor do we see anything pointing towards Judy. We know next to nothing about Judy in the first place.

Yes, there are the scratching sounds but they're not established to be related to Judy.

This is my main problem with S3. Everything is just a fan theory since the answers just don't exist.


I don't think that is a fair assesment. We are shown Judy. We are shown Judy in Sarah. We are shown Sarah stabbing Laura's portrait in distress over what is occuring and right after the plan fails. Not much ambiguity to any of that.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:00 pm

eyeboogers wrote:I don't think that is a fair assesment. We are shown Judy. We are shown Judy in Sarah.

No we're not. We are shown things. We are told names. We see characters doing random things. Connections are never established. This is why I'm on this thread. You're now saying that I don't need to be profoundly disappointed?
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Aqwell
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Aqwell » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I don’t know that Coop was ever planning on Laura making it “home” if you mean the Palmer house. He seems to be leading her to the gold pool/portal to the Fireman’s quarters, presumably to use as a weapon against Judy (“two birds, one stone”). If he took her home, Leland/Bob would continue raping her and probably eventually kill her anyway. I think when he said they were going “home,” he meant the White Lodge.
I agree with that, but then why 'Richard' took 'Carrie Page' litterally back to Laura's home at this end? Ok Leland is long dead and Richard/Coop doesn't know about Sarah Palmer dark state, but it seems very odd to get Laura back to the house where she was molested for years. And if it is truly an alternate universe, did Richard/Coop really expect Carrie/Laura to remember her other self memories? And what would have been Sarah's reaction to see her dead girl coming home 25 years later? Little to no sense at all...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby powerleftist » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:34 pm

I recently watched Mulholland Dr. for the sixth time at a local cinema and I still think it is a great movie. It completely makes sense from start to finish once you understand the basic premise. There are random sequences but, since they are short and contained, they add value to the plot instead of substracting it. A man is terrified at Winkie's and even if it is not related to anything else, the scene lasts only a few minutes and later we find out that Diane associates Winkie's with fear because she met the gangster there. Also, those vignettes are all great, you don't feel bored or distracted by them.

In contrast, The Return's side plots and vignettes are often completely boring and truly unrelated to anything else, even in the broadest possible sense. For instance, Carl telling an old man 'not to sell his blood' is not a remarkable scene and is completely detached from the rest of the show. It could be an OK way to introduce Carl in the first episodes, establishing that he is on the side of the angels, but we get this scene almost at the end when it doesn't matter: we already know that Carl is a good guy.

There are still some good detached scenes, though, e.g. the car lady screaming 'WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?'. And yet still, they irritated me because hardcore fans were trying to make sense out of something that was never intended to.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Aqwell » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:02 am

powerleftist wrote:A man is terrified at Winkie's and even if it is not related to anything else, the scene lasts only a few minutes and later we find out that Diane associates Winkie's with fear because she met the gangster there.
You missed it, she is not affraid of the hitman (he's a clumsy killer in her dream), she sees herself as a monster for what she just did (ordering a hit on her ex) and thinks that the guy at Winkie's can see it too, looking at her. In her dream the monster he saw out back at Winkie's is her, Diane is the hobo/witch/monster of the alley. It's an embodiment of her guilty feeling.

powerleftist wrote:In contrast, The Return's side plots and vignettes are often completely boring and truly unrelated to anything else, even in the broadest possible sense.
My feeling is that Lynch doesn't give a shit anymore of anything other that enjoying himself. Yet 'real' fans still think he shits gold...

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