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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:47 am
by Iron_Dwarf
Rewatched Lost Highway yesterday and luckily it's still a masterpiece to me and in my view now Lynch's magnum opus over Mulholland Drive. The screenplay is tightly written, all scenes and imagery stand in service of the overarching concept of the film. Interestingly this screenplay was co-written with Barry Gifford, it seems likely he was able to channel Lynch's creativity into a coherent whole. Even though I might not consciously understand what's happening in the film, on an intuitive level it does make sense. Contrast this to the writing in The Return: all the different tangents the story goes off on do not add up to one overarching idea/concept. And then we have the finale, which really is Lost Highway with diminishing returns.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:00 am
by powerleftist
You must live in a parallel dimension where FWWM is considered a masterpiece by someone else than a bunch of San Franciscan bearded hipster guys.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:05 am
by powerleftist
Iron_Dwarf wrote:Rewatched Lost Highway yesterday and luckily it's still a masterpiece to me


Yes, it is still great.

And it's not that hard to fully understand it once you grasp its basic premise: Fred killed his wife and went insane, so he created a fictional world in his head where he started getting those video tapes. Eventually he goes to prison and goes even more insane, creating a whole new personality named Pete. Eventually, all his fantasies collapse into a big, nightmerish mess.

Mulholland Drive is about a dream, while Lost Highway is about a hallucination.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:06 am
by mtwentz
powerleftist wrote:You must live in a parallel dimension where FWWM is considered a masterpiece by someone else than a bunch of San Franciscan bearded hipster guys.


Now you're just trolling. Whether it's considered a masterpiece or not is up to the individual to decide. What is clear and undeniable is that FWWM is more popular than ever.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:21 am
by Audrey Horne
Sorry, I unnecessarily steered it in the direction of picking on FWWM. It was wrong of me.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:47 pm
by sylvia_north
powerleftist wrote:
sylvia_north wrote: If you care at all about the ‘storyline'


You put 'storyline' in quotes as if it was some kind of weird or silly concept. Yet, almost all masterpieces both in literature and film that have stood the passing of time are based on a traditional, silly 'storyline'. Masterpieces which, needless to say, are still vividly praised and consumed by the masses (even centuries later).

The Return, on the other hand, is already fading away and the truth is that only a handful of people have watched all 18 episodes.


How did me putting ‘storyline’ in quotes turn into talking about masterpieces? The last link I posted here was Mark Frost saying DKL wasn’t much of a storyteller and that MD was a mess. Storyline is a loose concept, the quotes didn’t call for your defense of the merits of non traditional story, jfc, take some deep breaths. The same people who say it’s not a story it’s a mood (what frost says lynch does) will still police you for calling it a mood not a story IN A VALUE NEUTRAL WAY.

I’ve said multiple times in this thread some objective standard of masterpiece is bringing something wholly irrelevant to whatever points are being made, and is just distracting to keep mentioning. “But 30 years from now...” who cares?!

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:14 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
Rik Renault wrote:Also see: Auteur theory. I completely agree that there is a wealth of Lynch self-reference in TR but not quite sure how this can be construed as 'nostalgic'. To take Ronnie Rocket as an example. This is heavily referenced in TR, but it's from an unfilmed script as far as I'm aware. This might be nostalgic for Lynch, but it's not nostalgic for anyone else because nobody else saw the original. Where is the clash there?


It’s worth noting that the original series reused the chevron floor pattern from Eraserhead, the lumber town motif of Blue Velvet, and the lyrics of “Under the Sycamore Trees” from the Ronnie Rocket script, to give just three examples. It’s tough to think of anything in S3 as prominently “self-referential” as these.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:31 pm
by dugpa
Audrey Horne wrote:Sorry, I unnecessarily steered it in the direction of picking on FWWM. It was wrong of me.


LOL

Don't worry. We still love you.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:00 pm
by krishnanspace
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rik Renault wrote:Also see: Auteur theory. I completely agree that there is a wealth of Lynch self-reference in TR but not quite sure how this can be construed as 'nostalgic'. To take Ronnie Rocket as an example. This is heavily referenced in TR, but it's from an unfilmed script as far as I'm aware. This might be nostalgic for Lynch, but it's not nostalgic for anyone else because nobody else saw the original. Where is the clash there?


It’s worth noting that the original series reused the chevron floor pattern from Eraserhead, the lumber town motif of Blue Velvet, and the lyrics of “Under the Sycamore Trees” from the Ronnie Rocket script, to give just three examples. It’s tough to think of anything in S3 as prominently “self-referential” as these.

I saw Eraserhead 2 days back and i noticed the Evolution of the Arm,chevron pattern and the trinity test photo in it

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:03 am
by Audrey Horne
dugpa wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:Sorry, I unnecessarily steered it in the direction of picking on FWWM. It was wrong of me.


LOL

Don't worry. We still love you.


You're still and always the best.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:45 pm
by referendum
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rik Renault wrote:Also see: Auteur theory. I completely agree that there is a wealth of Lynch self-reference in TR but not quite sure how this can be construed as 'nostalgic'. To take Ronnie Rocket as an example. This is heavily referenced in TR, but it's from an unfilmed script as far as I'm aware. This might be nostalgic for Lynch, but it's not nostalgic for anyone else because nobody else saw the original. Where is the clash there?


It’s worth noting that the original series reused the chevron floor pattern from Eraserhead, the lumber town motif of Blue Velvet, and the lyrics of “Under the Sycamore Trees” from the Ronnie Rocket script, to give just three examples. It’s tough to think of anything in S3 as prominently “self-referential” as these.


this business about self-reference and nostalgia. I don't really see it like that. I take Lynch at his word when he talks about his way into film as being a painter who wanted to see his images move. And he still makes films like a painter, coming back to, or re-using the same images and themes and patterns and worrying away at them over 30 or 40 years. Loads of painters do this. Hell, loads of film-makers do it. And musicians. And writers. It should not really surprise us when someone whose autobiographical film is called '' the art life'' turns out to behave like an artist.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:21 am
by Rami Airola
Ok so I had a bit mixed feelings after the show but was leaning towards liking the whole thing.

But as days have gone by I have noticed this odd feeling of just not being interested in Twin Peaks much at all. This season basically killed all my will to dwell into theories about the show.
I have been obsessed by the whole thing ever since I first saw it back in 1991 and for the past 10-15 years I have been extremely into it. I spent years writing in the now dead Twin Peaks Gazette forum.

First I noticed that I'm not that interested to grab hold of Mark Forst's new book. I preordered The Secret History and was eager to read it immediately (I guess that book was the first in the series of disappointments about the return of Twin Peaks). Now the new book is out and I haven't even thought about reading it yet. I read some spoilers and those just made me even less interested.

I find myself not interested in decoding Fire Walk with Me, which is my all time favorite movie that I have seen at least over 50 times. I'm kinda not even obsessed to that anymore :(
What I saw in the Third Season has pretty much flattened my interest to it. Not that the season was bad or awful, but it just killed whatever will I had in trying to figure out the overall mystery of Twin Peaks.

And now as I watch Bob crawling over the sofa or Bob killing Maddy, I just see flashes of the Hulk glove guy punching flying Bob orb in my mind and the mood is immediately dead. Bob was such a missed opportunity in this season. The scene with Bad Coop and the mirror was FANTASTIC and I really hoped something would've come from that but nothing happened. Bob became the orb for good.

I think the last two episodes really should've been the first two episodes and the rest of the series should've gone from that premise. And let Cooper become senile after those episodes. It would mean so much more. Now I feel nothing that happened during the 16 episodes mattered much. The best shot in the series was Audrey confused looking at the mirror. That's something I still want to think about. And even then all the Audrey stuff that happened before was completely unbearable.

While the season still was basically ok, it is definitely the worst season of the three and it kinda was able to make the earlier seasons less interesting too.

EDIT:
I guess this is how it feels when religious people become atheists :D

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:24 am
by Agent Earle
Rami Airola wrote:Ok so I had a bit mixed feelings after the show but was leaning towards liking the whole thing.

But as days have gone by I have noticed this odd feeling of just not being interested in Twin Peaks much at all. This season basically killed all my will to dwell into theories about the show.
I have been obsessed by the whole thing ever since I first saw it back in 1991 and for the past 10-15 years I have been extremely into it. I spent years writing in the now dead Twin Peaks Gazette forum.

First I noticed that I'm not that interested to grab hold of Mark Forst's new book. I preordered The Secret History and was eager to read it immediately (I guess that book was the first in the series of disappointments about the return of Twin Peaks). Now the new book is out and I haven't even thought about reading it yet. I read some spoilers and those just made me even less interested.

I find myself not interested in decoding Fire Walk with Me, which is my all time favorite movie that I have seen at least over 50 times. I'm kinda not even obsessed to that anymore :(
What I saw in the Third Season has pretty much flattened my interest to it. Not that the season was bad or awful, but it just killed whatever will I had in trying to figure out the overall mystery of Twin Peaks.

And now as I watch Bob crawling over the sofa or Bob killing Maddy, I just see flashes of the Hulk glove guy punching flying Bob orb in my mind and the mood is immediately dead. Bob was such a missed opportunity in this season. The scene with Bad Coop and the mirror was FANTASTIC and I really hoped something would've come from that but nothing happened. Bob became the orb for good.

I think the last two episodes really should've been the first two episodes and the rest of the series should've gone from that premise. And let Cooper become senile after those episodes. It would mean so much more. Now I feel nothing that happened during the 16 episodes mattered much. The best shot in the series was Audrey confused looking at the mirror. That's something I still want to think about. And even then all the Audrey stuff that happened before was completely unbearable.

While the season still was basically ok, it is definitely the worst season of the three and it kinda was able to make the earlier seasons less interesting too.

EDIT:
I guess this is how it feels when religious people become atheists :D


Well, Rami, as I've said to one of the previous posters already (I think it was Gazebo), it's almost exactly what I wanted to say, only you said it so much better, so thank you :)
I also have zero interest in discussing the events of and around the new season - I just find it joyless, pointless theorizing. However, I do find thinking and discussing just about anything pertaining to the first two seasons and the movie to still have that special spice, so I'm quite content to crawl over them over and over again (see my recent discussion in The Final Dossier thread) - I hope it never goes away, this charm of the old Twin Peaks! So I guess you could say, to use your vocabulary, I'm still very much a "religious guy" :D

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:49 pm
by powerleftist
Perhaps this season has revealed to some of us that there is nothing to think about Twin Peaks. That there is no grand scheme of things. That it is not a complicated cosmic puzzle. That it is truly a collection of good and bad ideas clumsily mixed together. That even if some scenes are cool or uplifting or terrifying, they just exist in a vacuum and were never intended to fit into anything.

And now, an ending. This will be my last post in this forum. There is nothing more to say, now that the Final Dossier is out. God bless you all.

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:14 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
powerleftist wrote:Perhaps this season has revealed to some of us that there is nothing to think about Twin Peaks. That there is no grand scheme of things. That it is not a complicated cosmic puzzle. That it is truly a collection of good and bad ideas clumsily mixed together. That even if some scenes are cool or uplifting or terrifying, they just exist in a vacuum and were never intended to fit into anything.


I think it’s been clear since at least mid-season 2 that there was no cohesive master plan.