Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Mr. Strawberry
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:32 pm

The actual problem is black and white thinking, emotion fueled repetition of views taken at face value, and the demonizing of others that stems from it. If someone has to stop and second guess being candid because public outrage will result from their outlook differing from "the narrative", well that's frightening. People should not be afraid to state their opinions, regardless of how bent out of shape the collective conscious surrounding them is about those opinions. They're opinions for goodness' sake. They're thoughts. In a free world, it's okay to have your own opinion and state it publicly -- okay to disagree with others -- okay to have views that aren't popular or trendy. If anything, such can be viewed as the opportunity for intelligent debate, not cause for outrage or contempt.
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AgentEcho
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:53 am

Nah, the actual problem people want to be able to state their opinions and be protected from how people respond. Extend that "people shouldn't be afraid to express unpopular opinions" logic and is there any line that can be crossed? Is no one allowed to call ignorance ignorance in the name of protecting unpopular speech? I haven't seen anyone arguing anything draconian regarding Lynch's comment, nor have I seen "demonizing" (though I'm sure its out there). But I think most expressing their own opinions and disappointment, and others are saying that's not okay, which, when you look at it, is not any more "open minded" than accepting the opinion in the first place without comment. And again the issue here isn't just that people who disagree with it are misrepresenting Lynch's comment... people on all sides of the fence... people who are not critical at all of the comment taken out of context and who are not taking any time to understand it, and barely understand anything about who David Lynch actually is, are misrepresenting it. Breitbart didn't exactly jump into the fray here out of outrage. But yet its entirely unsurprising they and 45 did.

Yes a person who gets duped by a scammer is naive and the scammer is a worse person. But if you are friends with the person who got duped, if you were a good friend, you would want to talk to him about it. And I think good friends to Lynch may want to talk to him about how he's given certain people Lynch would probably not want to have much to do with cause to name drop him in support of their agenda. Sorry, but there are so many ways he could have expressed his opinion without doing that.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:11 am

Of course people can be called out for what they say, but that's a far cry from what is actually happening. The attitude that prevails today is oppressive and violent. A good example is when people riot and destroy property and light things on fire because someone is going to show up at a university and speak. That's suppression. That's an unwillingness to allow others to have a differing opinion, and the denial of free speech.

For Trump to suggest that Lynch's career is over seems quite relevant: Share an unpopular opinion and your ass is blacklisted. I mean, Lynch didn't step up for NAMBLA or the KKK, he just said the president might go down a certain way. That's why I said that being candid is dangerous. In a world of borrowed thinking guided by unchecked emotions and hair-trigger reactions, one must put strategy before honesty.

I've seen this sort of intellectual mob rule extending to facebook as well. People are constantly posting along the lines of: Anyone who disagrees with me can unfriend me right now!

Isn't that saying that listening to others and tolerating a difference of opinion is no longer an option? Isn't that saying that it's my way or the highway?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby mtwentz » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:22 am

I've never cared what is an artist's/actor's political opinion, whether I agreed or disagreed. If I only patronized the art of people who 100% agree with me on everything, I'd literally have no art to appreciate because there exist no two people who agree on everything all the time.

While it does annoy me when some celebrities become obnoxious in the way they state their opinions, it has no effect on how I view their performances.

Edit: As has been noted by others, Lynch didn't even really express an opinion on whether he liked or disliked Trump, so even if you're the most anti-Trump person in the world, there shouldn't be any issues.
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AgentEcho
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:50 am

I would agree, obviously, that violence and riots are not okay responses to a disagreement, but that's not what is happening here, unless I missed breaking news. Criticism gets equated with violence more than there is actual violence. There is no honestly in those takes... it's a way to dismiss criticism without addressing it.

You are exaggerating Trump's joke about Lynch's career and equating it with the criticism of his comment. I haven't seen anyone critical of Lynch actually saying anything of the sort. I could be wrong but the worst responses I've seen have been nothing more than dismissive of Lynch. That isn't violence or blacklisting.

I'd be the last person in the world to suggest Lynch should be blacklisted and I'd be every bit as excited to see his next work as I was before this brouhaha. But if Lynch does not want Donald Trump claiming him as his champion, he can only blame how he phrased that comment. I bet he cares about that more than some here might think.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:52 am

Sheesh. What a useless, pointless, dispiriting discussion. Let's get back to debating about Twin Peaks, shall we - in all its magnificent (S1 & 2, FWWM) and not so magnificent (S3) incarnations.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:00 am

mtwentz wrote:
Edit: As has been noted by others, Lynch didn't even really express an opinion on whether he liked or disliked Trump, so even if you're the most anti-Trump person in the world, there shouldn't be any issues.


I feel like I've expressed this pretty clearly, but here it is again. The issue was in how Lynch chose to express it and how easily.... inevitable actually... it was that it would be misconstrued. Donald Trump doesn't tweet about David Lynch being his champion in a vacuum. It's ridiculous to suggest this wasnt initiated by a careless statement on his part.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:27 am

Okay, DKL just released a statement on Facebook clarifying, and I'm happy he did. It was necessary, and I wish it wasn't, but it is enough.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:53 pm

Sure thing Earle, I agree that we shouldn't be getting political, however this little side discussion remained friendly and I'm glad for that.

These are definitely interesting times, as technology has enabled us to share quickly and readily, and one result of that is being "under the microscope" you could say. So yes, of course when someone makes any sort of public statement, repercussions are worth consideration.

It's difficult because even when you do nothing, things have become so contentious in the current "political scene" that the very notion that one might be different is potentially dangerous:

My neighbor confronted me when his dog had a bear treed in my front yard, after I asked him to get his dog back home so that the bear could come down and return to the forest. He told me that he doesn't give a shit about the noise his dog makes all night every night, and doesn't give a shit that my family is inconvenienced by it, because "we don't agree at all politically".

Interestingly enough, we've never had a discussion about politics before, nor does he have any idea of what my inclinations or views are. That's why I mentioned the risks of being perceived as different. Even the assumption that one is not in line with another's narrative can be troublesome and result in real problems. It is in complete opposition to the supposed stance of being tolerant that is spoken of so much.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby mtwentz » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:23 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote: My neighbor confronted me when his dog had a bear treed in my front yard, after I asked him to get his dog back home so that the bear could come down and return to the forest. He told me that he doesn't give a shit about the noise his dog makes all night every night, and doesn't give a shit that my family is inconvenienced by it, because "we don't agree at all politically".


Wow, your neighbor sounds like a real peach of a guy!
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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:13 pm

Just as nothing in Lynch's original quote negates "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history", so nothing in his 'clarification' negates this latest iteration of the same idea:

"Unfortunately, if you continue as you have been, you will not have a chance to go down in history as a great president."


Note that Tarantino hasn't had to 'clarify' any apparently pro-Trump statements. Nor has [choose director's name]. Just David Lynch. No acknowledgement of this from those keen to dismiss the importance of the first statement.

Again, I will say nothing about Trump here, as that's clearly against site rules. But Lynch stating not once but twice Trump's potential 'greatness' clearly has relevance to this thread's many discussions of the hardening of his personal politics evident in TR, to its vast detriment. Also relevant are the arguably poorly thought-out, tone-deaf, WGAF nature not just of the initial comment but the subsequent attempted combover too, and the way in which defences of them here resemble the denial and exonerate-Lynch-at-any-cost contortions by TR fans this past year. The attempts to gaslight us about words we can read with our own eyes brings to mind the toecurling comedy of one poster denying that a thread called 'References in The Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works' that he himself started actually contained any references in The Return to Lynch's non-TP works. For any newcomers to the thread: you've missed some spectacular mental gymnastics. Also: viciousness, ugliness, endless gaslighting and other contorted defences of the indefensible, cult-like hysteria at any criticism of the great man... Exactly.

Mr Strawberry, sorry to carelessly imply that you personally have been trying to boss anyone around -- you absolutely haven't. You cannot have failed to notice, though, the dozens if not hundreds of attempts by TR fans not only to ignore the thread's repeatedly-stated purpose by telling us why we're wrong to hate the thing, at one point actually having a weeks-long love-in about its wonders, but also to police the content and style of comments that try to stay on-topic. As for the appropriateness of Lynch's comments to this thread, please see above.

One final thing about the Guardian piece that started all this. As someone pointed out there, last summer on Guardian TR discussion threads the ratio of fans to sceptics was about 20 to 1. By year's end that was down to 10 to 1, more or less. We're now down to around 3 to 1. Watch that ratio continue to reduce and then flip. Sanity is starting to prevail.

Does any of this matter? I think it does, if you believe culture matters. The Return was a form of ECT for me last year, a necessary shock to the system. The benefits have been many. I wouldn't now change a single frame.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Venus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:17 pm

AgentEcho wrote:Okay, DKL just released a statement on Facebook clarifying, and I'm happy he did. It was necessary, and I wish it wasn't, but it is enough.


Yes and the first poster in response to it gave this genius response: 'And now Trump is the only person in this planet who has made David Lynch explain something. That's... A kind of accomplishment?' :lol: Hats off to the interviewer who was able to get quotes that could be used to publicise their product, even if taken out of context it's got people talking about it.

Howdy folks. Wow this thread is still going! Over a year on and unfortunately I'm still disappointed in TPTR. I have however recently managed to return to watching TP series 1 and 2 and enjoyed it just as much as I used to. I cannot tell you how much that made my heart sing. Is it me or does it seem like a lifetime ago that TPTR screened? Time flies.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby sylvia_north » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:00 pm

Anyone remember Kimmy saying in a SDCC interview that 45 got a private White House screening of TP3 before anyone else did? Things that make you go ‘hmm’


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Regarding my WIP- I can’t find the key to my steamer trunk half the collection is in. When I get the nerve to bust it open, they’re going as a set. But it might be a while
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:15 pm

sylvia_north wrote:Anyone remember Kimmy saying in a SDCC interview that 45 got a private White House screening of TP3 before anyone else did?


Nope. Source?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby sylvia_north » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:33 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:Anyone remember Kimmy saying in a SDCC interview that 45 got a private White House screening of TP3 before anyone else did?


Nope. Source?


https://youtu.be/MhZd2Ws3WZw Thank BOB it was the first one I thought to search. Not SDCC but Good Morning America. Thank you, for the small things, memory.

Know who else was apolitical on the record but used his celebrity to get special stuff from the president (and police departments in various states?) Elvis! I’m excited about Eugene Jarecki’s new documentary, The King, that came out this month about how Elvis’s life and death are a metaphor for how America came to elect Trump. Interestingly, Elvis also torched a house and bulldozed it into the basement of his property and the fire department showed up and asked why he didn’t call them first and he said “fuck you, that’s why!” and that was the last word on the matter. It was a scene DKL probably appreciated (from Elvis What Happened, the book that many say was the final unscrewing that led to his demise.) The section about EP doing bible readings on prescription speed and making up passages with swears but no one being allowed to laugh was also something that would fit in DL’s world.

Someone posted an interview here after I was going off where he liked to direct Kyle “More Elvis!” And then I kept seeing Lynch mention Elvis in other interviews. About to start Room to Dream, on Audible. TCB, David Lynch 8) :lol:
LFB > S3 < green tea latte Frank

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