BOB1 wrote:counterpaul wrote:The hit and run scene, plus Janey-E's monologue about the "dark, dark days" these characters are living in, plus Bushnell first dismissing but then seeing the truth in Coop's scribbles, plus Maggie's reminder not to jump to conclusions based on what we see on the surface with regards to Doris. This all adds up to something. Lynch is telling us what he's up to, here.
Yeah. Probably. Seems like a good point. My problem lies on a more shallow level, though. I'm happy to read about people finding meanings in it (which I clearly fail to do) but it doesn't help the simple fact that the scenes that you have mentioned just don't appeal to me. "Meaningful but boring" gives more hope for he future than "meaningless and boring", still...
That is exceedingly fair. I'd certainly never say art should feel like homework. TR consistently pulls me in on a totally gut level before I set to interpreting any of it. Every week, I can't believe an hour has gone by--Part 6 particularly seemed incredibly short to me and I was genuinely surprised, later, to find that it is the same length as Part 5 and actually a little
longer than Part 4.
My point being, there are immediate rewards for me that only deepen upon further introspection after the fact. If that wasn't the case, honestly, I probably wouldn't be here writing about it. Not that I'm saying you
shouldn't! We all process in our own ways.
BOB1 wrote:counterpaul wrote:Well, I guess it depends on how you're reading the word "manufactured." I don't think we're going to end up with some literal parallel dimension or alternate timeline or something. Let me put it this way: I think that key Jade threw in the mailbox is going to end up in Twin Peaks--the same Twin Peaks where/when Hawk is investigating what's missing and how it relates to Coop.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we're never told how Dougie was manufactured in any concrete sense. It doesn't really matter to me, either way, as long as the poetry of it resonates. Dougie's life is manufactured in the sense that it is a false life for Dale Cooper. It's a result of how desperately lost he's been for 25 years.
Now that is all VERY interesting. I don't know if it goes this way but that's something I like to ponder on.
I'd be very interested in reading your thoughts! I feel like this is an exceedingly under-explored aspect of the show on this board. So many people seem so distracted by plot mechanics and fantasy/sci-fi style "rules" and world-building that they miss the thematic and poetic substance. In my mind, there's an awful lot to discuss here.
BOB1 wrote:counterpaul wrote:...The structure, for the most part, is loose enough that certain scenes can be reordered a bit if opportunities for nice beats to start/end on arise.
Beyond that, however, I absolutely do think they're working on this as a giant 18 hour movie. I totally believe Lynch is on the level when he's implied that they cut this whole thing together before they even started thinking about breaking it up into parts. Once they did start breaking it up, sure, they made tweaks here and there where it made sense, but I doubt they made any major changes for the sake of constructing "episodes."
Part 6 seems like complete proof if this! It is many things, but it is NOT an episode of television. More than any other part so far, it is clearly just the next hour or so of the 18 hour film, with a musical performance thrown onto the end as a bookmark.
I personally love this approach!
And I personally hate it
You put it all very well but I don't see why a film - 2 hours or 18 hours - should be as unstructured as this. To me, it's just bad film, as well as it is bad TV! "Constructing episodes" is one thing but constructing a feature film is as important. Throwing scenes in a random order is bad. Of all Lynch's works so far, only Inland Empire had this kind of problem, and I do believe that Inland Empire has serious narrative flaws, which are saved by Laura Dern's HUGE performance - she creates something really big there and wraps all loose ends around it.
Just to clarify, what I meant is that the structure of the
script is loose enough that Lynch/Dunham are, to a point, free enough to play around with structure in the editing that they can create nice moments to start and end Parts on from time to time without altering the plot in any significant way.
I'm
not saying that the structure of the final piece is in any way random. I don't believe that at all. Ignoring the fact that, by necessity, it has been broken up into roughly hour-long sections, I think that the structure of the piece as a whole so far is quite meticulous. There are a lot of balls in the air, sure, but I can't really see any of it working in a much different order. As I watch it all as a single unit (an endeavor I heartily recommend if you can clear 6 solid hours for sustained viewing), I find its rhythms absolutely impeccable (speaking as both a film fan and as an editor).
Comparing it to something like Blue Velvet isn't really productive. In Blue Velvet we follow a single storyline from the point of view (with only a couple of minor exceptions) of a single character. A better point of comparison, structurally, would be something like Mulholland Drive or the original Twin Peaks--both of which, from a plotting perspective, could be re-ordered quite a bit in ways Blue Velvet simply can't be. This is merely a function of their scope.
So, the structure is "loose" in that sense, and so decisions in editing become largely rhythmic and tonal and aesthetic. The macro decisions are dictated largely by the developing plot, but there's lots of room for micro decisions to be made based on the feeling created by placing one scene after another. That is also what opens up the opportunity to, occasionally (and only when it doesn't harm the overall flow of the 18 hour feature), make small adjustments for the sake of making a Part play a little better as a single unit. None of these decisions are random at all. At least, they don't feel that way to me.
All that being said, I'd also say TR is certainly much tighter than the original series from a plotting perspective--there are entire storylines in the original Twin Peaks that could be moved around, or entirely removed, with no real affect on other storylines and I do not think that will prove to be the case in The Return (the key to room 315 getting sent to TP + Cindy getting sent off to Buckhorn with orders to contact the FBI if she turns anything up + Dougie's ring in the body + Hawk's discovery = building the plot so that everything can converge at the right time).
BOB1 wrote:yaxomoxay wrote:Also, what's wrong with the stock photo of Laura? That is probably the single image that defines TP, so I honestly don't get the problem.
That I can answer easily. The Return, like it or not, doesn't feel like the old Twin Peaks at all. The feel
sometimes comes back but it's not there straight away. So the photo of Laura as well as the original music - placed at the very beginning - look like they've been imported from a different story. They define Twin Peaks but not The Return!
Well, I simultaneously agree and disagree. I agree that The Return is its own thing, with a very distinct feel.
However, I think that picture of Laura, along with the clip from the pilot that opens the whole thing, is a very deliberate reminder that Laura is the unifying figure that ties all of Twin Peaks's iterations together. I feel confident that Laura will play a very key role before this is all over, and that picture is a potent reminder to keep that in mind, no matter where else this story takes us in the meantime.