Theories & Speculation

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The Brown Lodge
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by The Brown Lodge »

Cappy wrote: or they were hobos that were squatting in a convenience store at the site of the first atomic test
I like this idea.
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Shloogorgh
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Shloogorgh »

Cappy wrote: I wonder if evil individuals can gain immortal life in the service of evil, then can good characters achieve a similar fate for performing altruistic feets? I suppose Laura is in this territory now, but I think everyone would collectively lose their minds if Lynch/Frost could somehow have Jack Nance return as sort of a Wholesome and Noble version of a Woodsmen. I don't know how they would pull it off, but I imagine Lynch accumulated quiet a bit of b-roll footage of Nance over the years...
The hooded figure from the original series appears, pulls back the hood to reveal its head is a glowing orb... an orb containing a picture of Pete Martell!
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Cappy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Cappy »

Shloogorgh wrote:
Cappy wrote: I wonder if evil individuals can gain immortal life in the service of evil, then can good characters achieve a similar fate for performing altruistic feets? I suppose Laura is in this territory now, but I think everyone would collectively lose their minds if Lynch/Frost could somehow have Jack Nance return as sort of a Wholesome and Noble version of a Woodsmen. I don't know how they would pull it off, but I imagine Lynch accumulated quiet a bit of b-roll footage of Nance over the years...
The hooded figure from the original series appears, pulls back the hood to reveal its head is a glowing orb... an orb containing a picture of Pete Martell!
I would love this. Although we could just as easily get, say, a stuffed bass fish whose speaks in Jack Nance's voice.
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Hester Prynne »

The Brown Lodge wrote:At the back of my mind, I have been wondering about the whole woodmen thing - Going around with oily faces asking people for a light.

It reminded me a bit of the terminator, when he appears (the 2nd terminator liquid metal guy) and takes on the image of the first person he encountered (a cop).

Maybe the woodsmen when they first appeared (as some kind of other being/spirit) saw such a woodsman, asking someone for a light, and these spirits (without understanding it at all) have mimicked this behaviour, as if to pass themselves off as human - they have no idea how absurd it seems to real humans.

I think the same thing might have happened with Bob too - he took the image of the first person he saw (who looked like frank silva obviously), and maintained it.

I would maybe have argued that the fact Bob/the woodsmen even have an image is simply a device for the audience to recognise them (such as the Bob/Laura orbs that we see), but in the original series everyone seems to agree on what Bob looks like. There is even a sketch.
I've wondered about that, too, and if the Woodsman assumed the image of Lincoln on the coin. There's also the being in the Red Room that has assumed Laura's likeness (that's just my take; I know there are viewers who interpret it as her actually being Laura, and that could very well be.) In TSHOTP, the greys wanted genetic material in exchange for the info they gave to humans, so maybe they are using this to pass in the world as humans and to have greater accessibility/mobility. Maybe what we are seeing in episode 8 is what happened after this exchange occurred.
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

This Peaksless week is going to be hard on me so I'll compensate with a bit of speculative thought.

If you were a hungry ghost, doomed to wander the earth ever since the dugpas cursed you for logging in the woods of the indigenous tribes, and your moral punishment was to be condemned to forever hunger for increasing levels of pain-and-sorrow, then like many societies you might develop a system of overproduction and surplus.

Those willing humans, only too keen on destruction, who conceptualised and built the atomic bomb seem to be on a parallel, if not symbiotic path: what are weapons of mass destruction but canned pain-and-sorrow? The trinity test is an easy metaphor for a convenience store test, a proof-of-concept for a place where your only form of sustenance gets canned. The subsequent arms race is nothing but an industrialised canning process. If war is hell then perpetually deferred war, mutual assured destruction, etc. is canned hell.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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CuriousWoman
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by CuriousWoman »

I think the head of the evolution of the arm is to MIKE what the black orb is to BOB.
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by dud »

someone on Reddit made a pretty big discovery: everyone assumed bad coop just downloaded the prison blueprints in episode two, but someone screenshoted it and they actually include nuclear power plant blueprints. so whoever theorized that bad coop might be trying to blow up twin peaks in order to seal the lodge entrances might be onto something
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by BigEd »

Novalis wrote:This Peaksless week is going to be hard on me so I'll compensate with a bit of speculative thought.

If you were a hungry ghost, doomed to wander the earth ever since the dugpas cursed you for logging in the woods of the indigenous tribes, and your moral punishment was to be condemned to forever hunger for increasing levels of pain-and-sorrow, then like many societies you might develop a system of overproduction and surplus.

Those willing humans, only too keen on destruction, who conceptualised and built the atomic bomb seem to be on a parallel, if not symbiotic path: what are weapons of mass destruction but canned pain-and-sorrow? The trinity test is an easy metaphor for a convenience store test, a proof-of-concept for a place where your only form of sustenance gets canned. The subsequent arms race is nothing but an industrialised canning process. If war is hell then perpetually deferred war, mutual assured destruction, etc. is canned hell.
Very interesting points.
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Novalis
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

BigEd wrote:
Novalis wrote:This Peaksless week is going to be hard on me so I'll compensate with a bit of speculative thought.

If you were a hungry ghost, doomed to wander the earth ever since the dugpas cursed you for logging in the woods of the indigenous tribes, and your moral punishment was to be condemned to forever hunger for increasing levels of pain-and-sorrow, then like many societies you might develop a system of overproduction and surplus.

Those willing humans, only too keen on destruction, who conceptualised and built the atomic bomb seem to be on a parallel, if not symbiotic path: what are weapons of mass destruction but canned pain-and-sorrow? The trinity test is an easy metaphor for a convenience store test, a proof-of-concept for a place where your only form of sustenance gets canned. The subsequent arms race is nothing but an industrialised canning process. If war is hell then perpetually deferred war, mutual assured destruction, etc. is canned hell.
Very interesting points.
I'm happy someone thought so. Let's follow this train of thought a bit further then, to see if it bears any fruit.

I find it ironic that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were called Little Boy and Fat Man, in a Lynchian generic credits way avant la lettre. I'm thinking of 'American Girl' here, among others (I realise it's pretty standard practice to credit unnamed characters this way though). The point I really wanted to make originally, but hadn't the presence of mind to, was that Little Boy and Fat Man (who together killed at least 129,000 people - a high proportion of which civilians) showed the world what uncanning canned destruction looked like. Until they were used / uncanned they existed purely as stored, potential death.

I think it's telling that following the New Mexico atomic tests (and the subsequent disgorgement scenes), the giant / ??????? / Fireman's alarm bell rings. Maybe the Trinity Test should have, and did, ring alarm bells for some humans; wondering what they were becoming, having such force at their disposal for the first time in history. Oppenheimer's words on the matter are well known enough not to have to repeat them.

It's crucial I think to recognise that when Carel Struycken's character hears the bell he turns to confront the viewer for quite some time. This isn't just 'breaking the fourth wall', in the usual sense, as in (for example) comedy of the Spaceballs variety where an actor acknowledges the presence of the camera, crew, sound recording equipment or stunt doubles, for a cheap laugh. To me it's far more in the nature of parabasis, which has a long and venerable heritage in the arts. In art of a visual nature, I think it's generally true that when a figure or subject directly apprehends the viewer then the artwork is held to be making some kind of claim on the viewer, making a demand which is often of an ethical nature such as an appeal for justice. Just as in Brechtian theatre, an address to the audience is an open invitation to reflect more deeply on the relationships portrayed -- something Brecht picked up from the formalist traditions of East Asian theatre. That the 'Fireman' doesn't immediately respond to the alarm bell but instead returns a quite sustained gaze to the viewer -- which can be uncomfortable viewing precisely because of its demanding nature, its acknowledging of us in relation to what we are looking at -- is for me a very striking circumstance.

For the record, I don't think any of this necessarily equates to 'Lynch is giving us a message about...' however I do think it is artful, and artful precisely because it demands some kind of engagement on our part.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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boske
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

Now this may be a stretch, really, but could Little Nicky be Red the coin magician? Has this possibility been raised before?
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by KyleRickards »

boske wrote:Now this may be a stretch, really, but could Little Nicky be Red the coin magician? Has this possibility been raised before?
It's odd, I know people weren't keen on Little Nicky but there definitely seemed something odd about him - like the bit where the car nearly falls on Dick Tremayne. I could be wrong but isn't there owl sounds or similar just before the jack drops?
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Saturn's child »

I don't believe this to be true at all, but an idea jumped in my head during my week-hiatus-rewatch:
What if the voice of 'Phillip Jeffries' that Mr C speaks with after killing Darya is actually Leland (/his doppelganger)?

The anonymous voice wants to "be with BOB again", & the only character we've seen with BOB (besides Coop's doppelganger) is Leland. Combine this with the fact that Leland seems unaware of his actions during his interrogation/death scene, & there's a feeling like Leland never rectified the imbalance between his ego/self & his shadow self -- he died & they were still 'separate' entities. So now, with Leland denied any unification of self, his shadow/doppelganger is trying to merge with BOB again...

As I said, I don't really believe this, but thought it was interesting, if somewhat straightforward in a way.

(On another note, 'Darya' has 'Ray' in her name at the centre)
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Daliz »

Saturn's child wrote:I don't believe this to be true at all, but an idea jumped in my head during my week-hiatus-rewatch:
What if the voice of 'Phillip Jeffries' that Mr C speaks with after killing Darya is actually Leland (/his doppelganger)?

The anonymous voice wants to "be with BOB again", & the only character we've seen with BOB (besides Coop's doppelganger) is Leland. Combine this with the fact that Leland seems unaware of his actions during his interrogation/death scene, & there's a feeling like Leland never rectified the imbalance between his ego/self & his shadow self -- he died & they were still 'separate' entities. So now, with Leland denied any unification of self, his shadow/doppelganger is trying to merge with BOB again...

As I said, I don't really believe this, but thought it was interesting, if somewhat straightforward in a way.

(On another note, 'Darya' has 'Ray' in her name at the centre)
I have thought about this. Whoever it is on the phone, has been with BOB in the past, because he says "again". Leland or MIKE/Gerard we know have been with BOB in the past albeit in a different way. I think doppelcoop's question "This is Phillip Jeffries, right?" hints at him not being Phillip Jeffries.
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by CuriousWoman »

Someone made this connection it in the part 9 discussion but I don't think many have seen it. It may be a coincidence since Lynch likes to reuse character names (eg. his short video named "pierre and sonny jim") but this one might be relevant:

Coming from Rabbits and Inland Empire, living In a nameless city deluged by a continuous rain with a fearful mystery, I present... Jack Rabbit:
Image

What's interesting was that he was performed by Scott Coffey who, on the revival cast list, had an asterisk indicating a returning actor although he never performed in Twin Peaks before. Maybe it was not a mistake contrary to what we thought.

I never really bought into the Lynch cinematic universe but this theory has some weight I believe, especially since he already repurposed some of Rabbits as some mystical place for Inland Empire. Now I imagine that the figure on the doppelganger's Ace of Spades card and Briggs indications about Jack Rabbit's palace is actually a rabbit's stylised head. Some people also identified that Coffey might be the voice of "jeffries", so there is that too.

(By the way, the two other rabbits were Suzie portrayed by Naomi Watts and Jane Rabbit by the not cast-listed Laura Harring and the listed but not-asterisked Rebekah Del Rio)
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Post by Cipher »

CuriousWoman wrote:Someone made this connection it in the part 9 discussion but I don't think many have seen it. It may be a coincidence since Lynch likes to reuse character names (eg. his short video named "pierre and sonny jim") but this one might be relevant:
So then, do you think that when Jack opens the door in Rabbits and says it was the "man in the green coat," someone in the doorway just asked him to "Call for help"?
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