Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

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somevelvetmorning
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby somevelvetmorning » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:47 am

dronerstone wrote:
On a side note: Lovely username btw! I reckon you're aware of the Lydia Lunch version? If not, check out her "Honeymoon In Red" concept album! Easily one of my favorites.


Thank you for that tip! I'll be sure to check it out tonight. The only other version I've heard is that horrible one that Primal Scream did.

BigEd wrote:
There was not evil before 1945?? Not quite following you here.


Oh yes there was. I am thinking that the atomic bomb, set of in 1945, was what split the spirit world and created a pure evil version of it. BUT if time isn't linear to the spirit world, what we did in 1945 affected the spirit world even further back than that. Let's say the evil version was created in the year 45, and it was created because we split the atom 1900 years later.
PeaksCarnivaleLost
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby PeaksCarnivaleLost » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:28 pm

i'm thinking the phone call to Mr. C (5 days ago) was made by Albert.

End of ep 4 Cole claimed he saw a look in Albert that he hadn't seen before at the meet and greet. Albert gave him a story, maybe true, maybe false or in between.

But not much weight given to it lately and i think that might be telling.

Krishnanspace had this as an unsolved Mystery "Why isn't Albert looking for FBI etc ...?" maybe he ran into something looking for them? Maybe the truth. Maybe Albert was trying to do Dale C a solid and got caught up in some stuff. Maybe he likes trolling Mr. C on the phone. "Your refrigerator's running!"

anyway it's not fleshed out yet --- but the main case for it is process of elimination.

Who else? No shinola, try and come up with a candidate list. It's hard once you rule out Jeffries.

And if we haven't been introduced to the person yet i don't want to know who it was.

But there has been a lot of Albert and Gordon this Series, so maybe it's one of the bigger payoffs.
dronerstone
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:47 pm

Wow, haven't thought of the Albert hypothesis yet, I think it's a good idea and highly possible!

Plus, it'd explain the strange air between Gordon and him during the prison parking lot talk...
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ThumbsUp
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:24 pm

Neosmith wrote:Just had a thought on what actually happened to the Original Dougie Jones:

I've rewatched Dougie's "death" in the Red Room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTEAygQBadY

Something that occurred to me in hindsight, after seeing up to Episode 13 - Dougie doesn't so much die, as he seems to become "unborn."
Let me put it this way - time in the Red Room is fluid. We've seen that it can run forward and backward, sometimes at once.
Note that Dougie's flesh begins to shrink, getting thinner and thinner until it's all gone.

And then his head vanishes and a puff of black smoke is in its place. The the golden sphere flies up. It's almost as if Dougie ages backwards until all that remains is his incorporeal form - the golden sphere.

The scene cuts to Mike, then back to where Dougie was sitting.

What happens then seems to show how Dougie was "born": from out of thin air, an Experiment Model Egg forms, surrounded by the black smoke. The egg ages and a bugfrog creature begins to crawl out.

A golden sphere also manifests nearby, the two then seem to merge and collide until the sphere, now in tiny, solid form is all that is left.

Given everything shown in part 8 and beyond, this latter sequence seems to encapsulate how someone like Dougie is created - a bugfrog and a golden sphere, created by the Lodge beings, come together into a single whole.

So, is it possible that Mr. C/Bob manufactured Dougie by regurgitating an egg, a la the Experiment, and then combining it with a soul/sphere? Would that mean Dougie Jones is Mr. C's son, in a way? Was Laura also a hybrid being (golden sphere and bugfrog in one being?)


Great post, great insight.
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crazyscottishguy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby crazyscottishguy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:44 pm

I think Mr C will return to TP looking for Judy.
whoisalhedges
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby whoisalhedges » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:23 am

I think something's going on with fantasy.

In the Part 15 thread I wrote:

whoisalhedges wrote:Is anyone else getting more and more worried about Big Ed as the hours pass?

If Ed Hurley were to have dictated his deepest fantasy, his heart's truest desire; it would not have played out any differently. He loves Nadine. It's a paternalistic love, not in the least romantic, but he never wanted to break her heart - as evidenced by him returning to her after S2, after "committing" to moving on and starting a life with Norma. So, of course he would want not only his freedom, but Nadine's blessing, he'd want Nadine to be happy for him and Norma.

Speaking of Norma, it's not her making a decision between two men. It's her unceremoniously dumping Asshole Walter, and not only that, but selling off her franchises - to spend all her time with Ed!

His eyes are closed....

I'm really worried that something happened that night. Maybe he put a "cyanide pill" in his Cup Noodle.

I don't want this. Hell, there's not much I want more in the world of Twin Peaks than for Norma and Big Ed to live happily ever after. But what made my heart flutter with joy on Sunday night is kinda scaring the hell out of me two days later.

But honestly come to think of it, it's more than just Ed.

A t the very least it looks like it's (whatever "it" is) affecting the whole Hurley family. James singing "Just You" at the Roadhouse, Renee crying - given her reaction toward him in Part 15, I don't think the "Just You" scene really happened, or at least not in the primary timeline. She didn't seem like she wanted to ditch her old man for James, like some kind of horrible Shelly/Leo sitch, they were palling around like a happily married couple. She was genuinely concerned after Freddy godpunched him to Deer Meadow. Besides, why would somebody with the star power to PACK the Roadhouse, have everyone singing along, need Shelly to convince her friends that he's always been cool? The stammering, insecure guy we saw in Part 15, that's the James most people in Twin Peaks know.

And our dear Nadine - she has her own silent drape runner shop, with her very own gold shit-digging shovel in the window.

Winning Norma's hand (with Nadine *happily* giving him leave to do so), making Renee weep with love and playing his song to throngs of admirers, supporting herself with Run Silent, Run Drapes - these are Ed's, James', Nadine's deepest desires. Everything's coming up Hurley!

Did Lynch and Frost actually give this family their heart's desires? Or are they trolling their characters? Sadly, I fear the latter is more likely.

Immediately after the opening of Part 15, I was full of so much joy for Norma & Ed. A couple days later, I find myself just hoping Ed is still alive; that he didn't do something terrible after playing with fire at his Gas Farm, and that the scenes at the beginning of Part 15 weren't his "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge."

urp - "owl" :shock:

:(
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Methedrome
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Methedrome » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:33 am

Just putting this here.

I am guessing the last two episodes will be the real Agent Cooper putting everything together - all the fractured scenes, storylines and characters will be explained via his character in some sort of dream, lodge place, etc.

It will be the real "Return".

There are no alternate worlds, timelines, etc. It will simply be a matter of consciousness and whose perspective we have been viewing it from.

It will all make sense...
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Cappy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:28 am

One fairly prominent element of the Twin Peaks mythos that hasn't appeared in The Return is the Bookhouse Boys. I'm guessing they have disbanded, as the police are no longer using civilians as unofficial agents (Big Ed, James, Joey Paulson).

If the concept is never referenced again I'll be fine, but part of me is holding out hope that Sheriff Harry S. Truman is doing some deep ops Bookhouse Boys operation, where he is the one who hired Ray and Darya to kill DoppelCoop. I can see Harry possibly subscribing to a viewpoint similar to the one espoused by Jean Renault just before he died, that Cooper (and Laura's murder) somehow brought a kind of darkness to Twin Peaks. Now Harry could have taken it upon himself to stop him.

Or possibly Harry feels the same strange compulsion that Josie felt when she shot Cooper. "Because you came here" was her only justification.

I read a theory somewhere that Albert is the one trying to kill DoppelCoop, and also the one on the phone that Cooper spoke to in ep. 2. It would really be fun to see Albert and Harry as buddies/co-conspirators in a top-secret plot to save Cooper and kill his doppelganger, a reversal of their initial antagonistic relationship from their original series.
thedarktrees
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:00 am

Cappy wrote:One fairly prominent element of the Twin Peaks mythos that hasn't appeared in The Return is the Bookhouse Boys. I'm guessing they have disbanded, as the police are no longer using civilians as unofficial agents (Big Ed, James, Joey Paulson).

If the concept is never referenced again I'll be fine, but part of me is holding out hope that Sheriff Harry S. Truman is doing some deep ops Bookhouse Boys operation, where he is the one who hired Ray and Darya to kill DoppelCoop. I can see Harry possibly subscribing to a viewpoint similar to the one espoused by Jean Renault just before he died, that Cooper (and Laura's murder) somehow brought a kind of darkness to Twin Peaks. Now Harry could have taken it upon himself to stop him.

Or possibly Harry feels the same strange compulsion that Josie felt when she shot Cooper. "Because you came here" was her only justification.

I read a theory somewhere that Albert is the one trying to kill DoppelCoop, and also the one on the phone that Cooper spoke to in ep. 2. It would really be fun to see Albert and Harry as buddies/co-conspirators in a top-secret plot to save Cooper and kill his doppelganger, a reversal of their initial antagonistic relationship from their original series.


It's probably not likely to play out that way -- but going by what we know, it's not SO out of the question. As garbled as the mystery voice on the phone is, it's not hard to argue that it really does sound like Albert. And, there's at least some possibility that Albert is hiding things. I still think there's also a chance that Gordon Cole know a lot more about things than he's letting on.

The stuff with Harry though -- Harry has always been at the top of my list for possible surprise cameos. Both because of the vagueness surrounding Ontkean's involvement with the new series, but also because of how it would fit plot-wise. Surely Harry didn't just sit around for years when his closest friend Cooper went missing.... And if Harry knew something was seriously wrong with Cooper after what he witnessed in the woods, he may very well have tried to keep any work to find Coop quiet and behind the scene. It all fits.

Who knows?
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Cappy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:06 am

thedarktrees wrote:It's probably not likely to play out that way -- but going by what we know, it's not SO out of the question. As garbled as the mystery voice on the phone is, it's not hard to argue that it really does sound like Albert. And, there's at least some possibility that Albert is hiding things. I still think there's also a chance that Gordon Cole know a lot more about things than he's letting on.


I also found it interesting that the vision of Laura appeared to Gordon Cole right as he opened to door for Albert, almost as if she was trying to warn him about Albert.
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Cappy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:16 am

thedarktrees wrote:The stuff with Harry though -- Harry has always been at the top of my list for possible surprise cameos. Both because of the vagueness surrounding Ontkean's involvement with the new series, but also because of how it would fit plot-wise. Surely Harry didn't just sit around for years when his closest friend Cooper went missing.... And if Harry knew something was seriously wrong with Cooper after what he witnessed in the woods, he may very well have tried to keep any work to find Coop quiet and behind the scene. It all fits.


Also... Cooper's old room key is supposed to be going to Harry at some point. Obviously, Frank himself could just go open the door, especially in light of everything else connected to the case that's happened, but Harry is mentioned almost every other episode. I'm not expecting a Michael Ontkean appearance at this point, but his character could fit perfectly back into the story, even this late into the new series.
thedarktrees
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:52 am

Cappy wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:The stuff with Harry though -- Harry has always been at the top of my list for possible surprise cameos. Both because of the vagueness surrounding Ontkean's involvement with the new series, but also because of how it would fit plot-wise. Surely Harry didn't just sit around for years when his closest friend Cooper went missing.... And if Harry knew something was seriously wrong with Cooper after what he witnessed in the woods, he may very well have tried to keep any work to find Coop quiet and behind the scene. It all fits.


Also... Cooper's old room key is supposed to be going to Harry at some point. Obviously, Frank himself could just go open the door, especially in light of everything else connected to the case that's happened, but Harry is mentioned almost every other episode. I'm not expecting a Michael Ontkean appearance at this point, but his character could fit perfectly back into the story, even this late into the new series.


I actually thought that having the key go to Harry was a way of squashing that whole lead. I don't know if they'll ever revisit the missing key -- though that would be a great way to introduce Harry if he's to make any surprise appearance in this. But otherwise, it seemed to me more like the key was raised as something that viewers thought would lead to Coop, but then ends up getting buried -- sort of like the Fuscos running Dougie's prints and finding they match Coop, only to toss the whole lead in the garbage.

I don't know -- I hope the key plays into thing in some way. Otherwise it's not really the most useful or interesting plot device/element. Could have done without it. Though I guess it DOES indicate that good Coop had actually completely and totally vanished since his Black Lodge visit -- to the point where everything he had on him that very moment 25 years ago was still with them. So there's sort of a purpose to it that way.
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Cappy
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:24 pm

Another Harry Truman related plot thread is his nephew's (and Frank's son's) suicide. It was brought up at the end of Part 6 and subsequently never mentioned again. Maybe that has no relevance to the plot, but I could see this event as pushing Harry over an edge. I can see him being shook up by the fact that there is no one left to carry on the Truman name in Twin Peaks.
dronerstone
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:52 pm

Cappy wrote:Another Harry Truman related plot thread is his nephew's (and Frank's son's) suicide. It was brought up at the end of Part 6 and subsequently never mentioned again. Maybe that has no relevance to the plot, but I could see this event as pushing Harry over an edge. I can see him being shook up by the fact that there is no one left to carry on the Truman name in Twin Peaks.


Makes perfect sense when you think about how suicide/depression usually "runs" in families.

That'd explain why he's such a recluse then.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:50 pm

dronerstone wrote:
Cappy wrote:Another Harry Truman related plot thread is his nephew's (and Frank's son's) suicide. It was brought up at the end of Part 6 and subsequently never mentioned again. Maybe that has no relevance to the plot, but I could see this event as pushing Harry over an edge. I can see him being shook up by the fact that there is no one left to carry on the Truman name in Twin Peaks.


Makes perfect sense when you think about how suicide/depression usually "runs" in families.

That'd explain why he's such a recluse then.


Recluse? I thought the implication was that he was being treated in-patient at a specialized facility, presumably in a larger city.

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