Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 670
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:00 pm

Cappy wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:Also... Cooper's old room key is supposed to be going to Harry at some point. Obviously, Frank himself could just go open the door, especially in light of everything else connected to the case that's happened, but Harry is mentioned almost every other episode. I'm not expecting a Michael Ontkean appearance at this point, but his character could fit perfectly back into the story, even this late into the new series.


Technically Frank can't go open the door, at least not with the key, because the Great Northern switched to keycards a couple of decades ago. In any case, it's not like Ben Horne had any reason to hermetically seal the room for 25 years. Presumably there have been 25 years of guests passing through there, so I don't know what could be found there.

I do think it would be great for us to see Dale Cooper stay in his old room again (aside from the fact that the doppelganger has once been there in his place, which could be more than a little creepy).
Last edited by Jasper on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dronerstone
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:53 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
dronerstone wrote:
Cappy wrote:Another Harry Truman related plot thread is his nephew's (and Frank's son's) suicide. It was brought up at the end of Part 6 and subsequently never mentioned again. Maybe that has no relevance to the plot, but I could see this event as pushing Harry over an edge. I can see him being shook up by the fact that there is no one left to carry on the Truman name in Twin Peaks.


Makes perfect sense when you think about how suicide/depression usually "runs" in families.

That'd explain why he's such a recluse then.


Recluse? I thought the implication was that he was being treated in-patient at a specialized facility, presumably in a larger city.


1) we're unsure what he's being treated for, might be anything from depression to cancer.

2) the "original" Sheriff Harry S. Truman had quite a hermit side to him in some way.
Burns's Suite
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:19 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Burns's Suite » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:18 am

Remember the voice on the phone with Evil Coop, "I will be with Bob again"? We know for sure it isn't Jeffries now. And out of all the shows existing characters who are the only two who have been with Bob that we know of? Evil Coop and Leland. It's got to be Leland, or maybe even his doppelganger.

Based on that line, and this gut instinct that we'll be seeing a lot more Ray Wise in the last two parts, I don't have a lot to go on with thise theory. But I'm surprised no one has theorised it is Leland working against Evil Coop.

To add to this the call happened in the very same episode Leland appeared, and the voice wasn't credited (maybe because it's a distorted version of Lelands and him appearing already in the episode may have been a decent cover?).
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:26 am

Burns's Suite wrote:Remember the voice on the phone with Evil Coop, "I will be with Bob again"? We know for sure it isn't Jeffries now. And out of all the shows existing characters who are the only two who have been with Bob that we know of? Evil Coop and Leland. It's got to be Leland, or maybe even his doppelganger.

Based on that line, and this gut instinct that we'll be seeing a lot more Ray Wise in the last two parts, I don't have a lot to go on with thise theory. But I'm surprised no one has theorised it is Leland working against Evil Coop.

To add to this the call happened in the very same episode Leland appeared, and the voice wasn't credited (maybe because it's a distorted version of Lelands and him appearing already in the episode may have been a decent cover?).


Not sure I believe that this is where it's going -- Between Two Worlds and Leland's brief appearance in TP:TR seem to paint him as uncomfortably benevolent -- but I love this theory and really hope it's true.
User avatar
Panapaok
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:07 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:33 am

At this point, my guess is that it was Philip Gerard/MIKE on the phone.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:37 am

Panapaok wrote:At this point, my guess is that it was Philip Gerard/MIKE on the phone.


I'm good with this too -- Mike has been far too benevolent. I prefer his more sinister/complex Episode 2/FWWM incarnation. Wonder if there was a specific reason he's been credited as PMG rather than "Mike."

EDIT: Probably nothing, but he's actually been credited as "Phillip Gerard," a name oddly close to "Phillip Jeffries." Never thought about that before. Huh. Mr. C calling him "Phillip" is kinda funny if it is him!
Daliz
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Daliz » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:56 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Panapaok wrote:At this point, my guess is that it was Philip Gerard/MIKE on the phone.


I'm good with this too -- Mike has been far too benevolent. I prefer his more sinister/complex Episode 2/FWWM incarnation. Wonder if there was a specific reason he's been credited as PMG rather than "Mike."

EDIT: Probably nothing, but he's actually been credited as "Phillip Gerard," a name oddly close to "Phillip Jeffries." Never thought about that before. Huh. Mr. C calling him "Phillip" is kinda funny if it is him!


I thought about this Phillip thing. Also, I think Ray says just "Phillip" when he calls from the car after shooting Mr. C.
Manwith
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:28 am

pinballmars wrote:WHAT IF BILLY IS THE DREAMER?????


The dreamer is the autistic boy that dreamed up St. Elsewhere.

He also owns a Snow Globe of the Great Northern.

Turns out he also dreamed up Muholland Drive after getting a snow globe of the Hollywood sign. He dreamed that he was Diane dreaming she was Betty. He's a very clever young man.

The real Dale Cooper is just some guy that works with disabled kids at his school. He doesn't even like Cherry Pie in real life.
User avatar
TweetPeak
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:12 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby TweetPeak » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:35 am

My theory : Laura runs in the Woods and enters the lodge. There she remains in the lodge while evil Doppelaura Returns to Twin Peaks. That is not for long when she gets snatched later that night by Bob - and killed. Evil Doppelaura returns to the lodge while good Laura gets orbed or send to Las Vegas
User avatar
Framed_Angel
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:43 am

TweetPeak wrote:My theory : Laura runs in the Woods and enters the lodge. There she remains in the lodge while evil Doppelaura Returns to Twin Peaks...
Your mentioning "DoppelLaura" just made me realize: her DIARY even had a doppelganger!? Two diaries. Mind=blown. ;)
whoisalhedges
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby whoisalhedges » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Panapaok wrote:At this point, my guess is that it was Philip Gerard/MIKE on the phone.


I'm good with this too -- Mike has been far too benevolent. I prefer his more sinister/complex Episode 2/FWWM incarnation. Wonder if there was a specific reason he's been credited as PMG rather than "Mike."

EDIT: Probably nothing, but he's actually been credited as "Phillip Gerard," a name oddly close to "Phillip Jeffries." Never thought about that before. Huh. Mr. C calling him "Phillip" is kinda funny if it is him!

I hadn't thought of that being why he was credited as Phillip Gerard. Hm....

Leaving aside that possibly tantalizing tidbit, I had thought for a long time that it was Gerard/MIKE until just yesterday, I think. I remembered The Arm saying "Two Five Three. BOB BOB BOB. Go now!" very excitedly. Previously he'd said that Coop couldn't leave until his doppelgänger returned; then it was time for Dick Dale to return, and... that's one excited little tree. So it got me thinking it was him on the other end of the line.

It might not matter. The Evolved Arm, the LMFAP - it's all an anthromorphicization of PHLLIP GERARD/MIKE'S LEFT ARM. Yes, they're their own characters. Yes, MIKE seems far more morally ambiguous, and sometimes even benevolent, as opposed to the more malevolent Arm. But on the other hand (heh), the Arm has been helping Cooper ("squeeze his hand off!") just like Gerard this season. For whatever reasons.

I think MIKE/Gerard and the Arm have their own individual motivations; but at the same time, they're parts of a whole. So maybe whether the Arm or the One-Armed Man made the call is immaterial.
User avatar
Mr. Strawberry
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm
Location: Nevada City, CA
Contact:

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:23 pm

Well, this is all wrapping up in the next week, so I figured I'd go ahead and attempt to describe my hunch regarding The Two Coopers and how they relate to things like The Glass Box, The One Armed Man, Diane, Jeffries, and so forth.

Season 2's cliffhanger ending hit me pretty hard back in the day, because I believed that Dale himself had been corrupted in The Red Room. My reasoning was that, although we saw two Dale Coopers in that realm, they were only representational, thus his "bad side" got the better of him. But I never believed that it was a separate entity that returned to Twin Peaks.

When I saw Fire Walk With Me, and heard about "The Good Dale" being trapped in The Black Lodge, it still fit with this line of thinking because his "Shadow Self" had made it out before his "Light Self". The implication was that he was changed for the worse -- that the good half of him was completely absent now, and that he had lost all balance and centeredness in a dramatic shift to one extreme. Soul removed. He paid the price for the inability to either confront or overcome his "sins", implied through the appearance of Caroline. When faced with the baser half of himself that was responsible for his past deeds -- the dark half that exists within us all -- he could not face up to it. This is how he lost. He was frightened by this glimpse of his inner self, he fled, and his Darkness overcame his Lightness.

Dale is still out and about in the world, but incomplete and lacking any sort of heart. 25 years after this transformation, one has to wonder, just what the hell is he up to? Rather than merely ambling around, doing drugs and engaging in illicit sex, he's clearly on some kind of mission with relatively few pit stops.

What he is and is not doing gives rise to many questions. For one thing, why isn't he taking "Dougie" out with his own two hands? The general consensus is that he's aiming to kill Dougie, and yet can we truly believe that this vitally important task has been delegated down a line of random criminals, outsourced from one party to the next? That doesn't seem like the kind of precision and swiftness that we know Dale for. He is shown taking matters into his own hands time and time again.

We need to question whether or not he's even trying to have his other half assassinated, or trying to save him. The entire series of events in Las Vegas has been very murky. One possibility is that he knows that his Light Self is not killable, and is therefore testing the waters. Worst case scenario: He was wrong, the switch didn't happen between Dougie and his Light Self, and Dougie Jones gets taken out. No sweat for Dale. Another possibility is that he's not particularly worried about it because it's just another roundabout method of sending his Light Self back into The Glass Box.

Given what happened to him in The Red Room, he may be wary of going back there. But as an alternative means of returning himself to wholeness, he may be trying to harness or channel the forces of that realm. This could explain several purposes for the Glass Box as well as his lifestyle leading up to its creation. Exploiting an off the grid life of criminal activity would have enabled him with the resources to enlist the right people for research and construction of such a device. Presumably it could be used to capture his own Light Self. Beyond that, the Box could also imprison forces of destruction, beings from The Red Room, and so forth. When he shows Darya the Ace Card, he says that he is after "this". Nonetheless, perhaps he is out to find and destroy whatever "this" is in addition to somehow regaining his heart and soul by directing his Light Self into the Box.

Side note: His Light Self is referred to as "Nonexistent" by the very being that sends him to The Glass Box. This choice of words could support the notion that his Good Half is lost and without a body (later sent into a clone made up of the dematerialized Dougie Jones). Furthermore, if this Arm is aligned with the Dweller on the Threshold, then it would make perfect sense for it to send him to that destination.

Jeffries and Diane could tie into this for reasons as simple as providing the sort of intelligence and support that would get Dale to his goal while also moving them toward their own needs and desires. In the case of Jeffries, his experiences and potential supernatural abilities (whether inborn or learned) could be essential in making it all happen. It's also possible that Jeffries has an agenda following his meeting above the Convenience Store. Perhaps he and Dale share a desire to destroy whatever evil has been unearthed by the events that began when Dale first came to Twin Peaks. This doesn't explain why an FBI agent died after Albert shared information with them, but that agent's death was never explicitly pinned on either Cooper or Jeffries.

Diane's position would lend itself to granting Cooper access to the sort of classified information and technology that would aid him in accomplishing such a difficult and obscure goal. Her own agenda would likely be to either help Dale restore himself to completion, or if that's not Dale's actual goal, then to feign being aligned with him, biding time until she finds an opportunity to free what she believes to be the good and true Dale Cooper.

The One Armed Man wants BOB back, and he also wants order in the court. With Dale having betrayed the terms set forth 25 years ago, he's taken matters into his own hands. It appears as though he is trying to get Dale's halves back together by keeping one in our world and sending the other back to The Red Room. Part of this speculation is based on the theory that Gerard was posing as Jeffries during the briefcase call. If it's true, then he could even be setting up another trial of the soul in the Red Room, hoping or believing that Good will overcome Evil this time around.

Though Dale is now seemingly missing any sort of compassion or empathy, on an intellectual level he can still attempt to logically define right from wrong, which would explain his resorting to savage and violent means in order to erase anyone who he feels is not "good", whereas the integrated and whole Cooper would have "done the right thing" and apprehended wrongdoers, sending them to trial within the justice system in accordance with the laws that he adhered to.

It's a stretch, I'll admit, but this theory at the very least lends some significance and tragedy to his situation. An "evil double" versus the "good guy" he was cloned from sounds too much like a black and white, simplistic, comic book type of scenario that has been done countless times -- the sort of superficial plot that Lynch and Frost would likely not create, and it wouldn't have much to relate beyond "kill the bad guy".

Having to face up to oneself, wanting to acknowledge mistakes and missteps in order to advance, at least has meaning. Dale is such a beloved character that it's easy to avoid believing he is both of these halves, much less the brutal aggressor who's heart was left behind, but a painful reckoning is what he's due, and what he arguably set himself up for by morally slipping to the degree that it cost someone their life.

Believing that he is merely a Doppelganger allows us avoid the discomfort of witnessing a destroyed Dale. It's so much easier to see the guy with the FBI suit and tie, slicked hair and smiles to be the real deal, but this is likely an intentional misdirection. They are one and the same, portrayed as two aspects of a lost soul, with neither one more "genuine" or complete than the other.

As his Shadow Self he is mostly conscious, and painfully aware of being incomplete, unable to fill a great void that is at the forefront of awareness, giving rise to boiling anger, and extinguished lives lay in his wake.

As his Light Self he is mostly unconscious, only vaguely aware of his lack of wholeness, easily ignored through the complete absence of memories, giving rise to tranquil bliss, and improved lives lay in his wake.

Both existences are ultimately unsustainable and must be reconciled for Dale to survive. Initially only one half was aware of this, but as of now (end of Part 15), perhaps the other half has begun to catch up.

Disclaimer: I still feel that this speculation is far too simple in the face of so many unanswered questions (Black Box with two blinking red lights transforming into a chunk of gold? HellooOOOooooooo!), but it feels like a small step in the right direction. Seriously though, what the hell is up with that box? Furthermore, I feel that anything we predict is very unlikely to pan out, given the generally unpredictable nature of this story.
Last edited by Mr. Strawberry on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not taking any calls.
User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:37 pm

Cappy wrote:Another Harry Truman related plot thread is his nephew's (and Frank's son's) suicide. It was brought up at the end of Part 6 and subsequently never mentioned again. Maybe that has no relevance to the plot, but I could see this event as pushing Harry over an edge. I can see him being shook up by the fact that there is no one left to carry on the Truman name in Twin Peaks.


Really? You think that if somebody's nephew committed suicide, that they would be "shook up" by the fact that there is no one left to carry on a name?? :?:
User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Burns's Suite wrote:Remember the voice on the phone with Evil Coop, "I will be with Bob again"? We know for sure it isn't Jeffries now. And out of all the shows existing characters who are the only two who have been with Bob that we know of? Evil Coop and Leland. It's got to be Leland, or maybe even his doppelganger.

Based on that line, and this gut instinct that we'll be seeing a lot more Ray Wise in the last two parts, I don't have a lot to go on with thise theory. But I'm surprised no one has theorised it is Leland working against Evil Coop.

To add to this the call happened in the very same episode Leland appeared, and the voice wasn't credited (maybe because it's a distorted version of Lelands and him appearing already in the episode may have been a decent cover?).


Very nice! This is a really interesting thought.
KyleRickards
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Theories & Speculation (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:27 am

Burns's Suite wrote:Remember the voice on the phone with Evil Coop, "I will be with Bob again"? We know for sure it isn't Jeffries now. And out of all the shows existing characters who are the only two who have been with Bob that we know of? Evil Coop and Leland. It's got to be Leland, or maybe even his doppelganger.

Based on that line, and this gut instinct that we'll be seeing a lot more Ray Wise in the last two parts, I don't have a lot to go on with thise theory. But I'm surprised no one has theorised it is Leland working against Evil Coop.

To add to this the call happened in the very same episode Leland appeared, and the voice wasn't credited (maybe because it's a distorted version of Lelands and him appearing already in the episode may have been a decent cover?).


I like that theory


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Return to “Season 3 (2017) The Return (Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 14 guests