Theories & Speculation

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AXX°N N.
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby AXX°N N. » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:57 pm

enumbs wrote:One of the most dispiriting things about this video for me was the number of fans who claimed to have their minds blown by this series of Info-Wars style logical leaps.

:) Yup! I'm glad to see a pushback on that vid here too ... I left my own displeasure known in that reddit thread of the video that was otherwise a ton of swooning appraisals, and the dude attacked me personally at length. I saw quite a few people accuse him of egomania and I can't disagree, based on what I saw.
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Jasper
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Jasper » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:20 pm

AXX°N N. wrote:
enumbs wrote:One of the most dispiriting things about this video for me was the number of fans who claimed to have their minds blown by this series of Info-Wars style logical leaps.

:) Yup! I'm glad to see a pushback on that vid here too ... I left my own displeasure known in that reddit thread of the video that was otherwise a ton of swooning appraisals, and the dude attacked me personally at length. I saw quite a few people accuse him of egomania and I can't disagree, based on what I saw.


It's got a slick presentation, and it was amusing to watch, but as to my feelings about the theory itself, to borrow some words from Lynch, "Bullshit. That's how I feel. Total. Fucking. Bullshit."

Please excuse the foul language.
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Soolsma » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:15 am

AXX°N N. wrote: :) Yup! I'm glad to see a pushback on that vid here too


This. I was very surprised by the traction it gained. Good post enumbs! I was about to make a similar post when I first saw that vid. Someone using far-fetched reasoning like that will find all kinds of different patterns eventually.

He connects the piece of meat in the back of the trunk in part 1 to Earle showing Annie the rainbow trout in the s2 finale. There he either fails to notice or omits reporting the flickering flashlight as what I firmly believe is the most deliberate, obvious, well placed nod to one of Lynch's most loved moments in the original pilot; the flickering lights during the examination of Laura's body.
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dreamshake
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby dreamshake » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:02 am

AXX°N N. wrote:
enumbs wrote:One of the most dispiriting things about this video for me was the number of fans who claimed to have their minds blown by this series of Info-Wars style logical leaps.

:) Yup! I'm glad to see a pushback on that vid here too ... I left my own displeasure known in that reddit thread of the video that was otherwise a ton of swooning appraisals, and the dude attacked me personally at length. I saw quite a few people accuse him of egomania and I can't disagree, based on what I saw.


same here. there were so many logical leaps and just plain inaccuracies and I had only the energy to call this guy out for egomania. thanks enumbs for actually refuting so many of his points. truly discouraging that got so much traction.
Last edited by dreamshake on Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dreamshake
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby dreamshake » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:11 am

I was so frustrated with the spurious conclusions in the video and then when he confused Garland's disappearance when camping with his murder I may have pulled some hair out of my head.
enumbs
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby enumbs » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:26 am

Cheers for the kind words!

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I quite liked some of the ideas in this piece: http://politicsslashletters.org/dreamer ... ks-return/

And here are my own thoughts which I posted in the comments:


"Great piece, but while I agree with many of the core implications I don’t think that Lynch would be so willing to undermine FWWM in the way you suggest. The fact that Laura was raped and murdered by her father is the dark secret at the heart of the original Twin Peaks, and is to my mind more subversive and disturbing than the notion that Dale is the man responsible.

And yet in another sense, I do believe Dale is responsible for Laura’s death. Laura is the One, a figure representative of all the suffering inflicted on women by men who believe they cannot control their own impulses. If we are to understand that Mr C is a manifestation of Cooper’s psyche, not purely a comic-book villain, then we have to conclude that Cooper raped both Diane and Audrey. The darkness inside Leland is also inside him, and he too is in denial.

Cooper is not split into two, but three. There is a part on him which once to embrace the pure wilful selfishness embodied by Mr C. There is a part of him which believes he is still a hero, an archetypal detective on the side of good. But for the most part, he is Dougie, living an ordinary family life, suppressing his agency and consciousness altogether. Maybe this is the most practical approach, as he finds himself surrounded by people who love him, and even manages to spread good to his community in simple ways. But it is also a robotic, repetitive, and sad existence, and like Audrey’s delusion of an existence with Charlie, it cannot be sustained.

As Audrey is suppressing the reality of the trauma she has endured, so Cooper is suppressing the reality of the trauma for which he is responsible. Audrey allows her delusion to become more indulgent, and as she slips into a reverie with the hope of becoming one with her younger, innocent self, and Cooper lets himself become the hero, convincing himself that he has defeated evil once and for all. Both of these fantasies collapse in on themselves. Audrey cannot hide from her pain or the reality of her existence, and Cooper cannot save Laura from what has already occurred. His attempt to do so involves bringing a woman back to the site of her trauma, and denying that darkness could possibly come from the home.

I agree with you that one of the main themes of the season – like much of Lynch’s late work – is denial vs reality. If the original series and film are about the trauma of the victims, perpetrators, and those unable or unwilling to intervene, this new series adds the dimension of time. Sarah was representative of denial in the face of trauma in the original run (especially in light of FWWM), and we see what time has done to her, this gaping chasm of guilt and suffering which has overtaken her as the years have passed. Judy is “an extreme negative force”, and negativity does not have to characterise evil so much as neglect, or any behaviour “containing negation or denial”.

The inverse of Sarah’s void is Laura’s inner-light, and I think this is due to her crucial choice in FWWM to accept the truth and exert her agency even in the face of unimaginable torment. Maybe in that light it is possible to see Carrie Paige’s ending as a good thing, as this version of Laura who has escaped from and suppressed her pain is forced to confront reality. But Cooper or Richard cannot be a part of this catharsis, as he cannot believe he is doing anything other than taking this woman (who he still sees as Laura, not Carrie) back to a place of comfort and safety. Richard is of course the real Cooper, lost, confused, and dangerously at odds with his own fragile sense of self.

There are many characters and stories in The Return, but when viewed in light of this theme of reality in conflict with fantasy I think that all the disparate threads coalesce into something much clearer and more powerful."


Having been so harsh regarding the ideas in Cory TV's video, I welcome any thoughts regarding my view on the series - especially if you see it as "total fucking bullshit". :D
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby krishnanspace » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:34 am

Hester Prynne
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Hester Prynne » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:47 pm

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eyeboogers
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:19 pm



I think I have figured out exactly where those coordinates lead. "Jornado del Muerto" very close to the Trinity explosion site.
"Jornado del Muerto/Dead Man's Journey" also being the original working title for "Twin Peaks: The Return" (according to Mark Frost).
Hester Prynne
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:58 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
I think I have figured out exactly where those coordinates lead. "Jornado del Muerto" very close to the Trinity explosion site.


Very cool! There is also a Lincoln, New Mexico very close by and Lincoln National Forest. Ep. 8?
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Trudy Chelgren
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:17 am

eyeboogers wrote:
I think I have figured out exactly where those coordinates lead. "Jornado del Muerto" very close to the Trinity explosion site.
"Jornado del Muerto/Dead Man's Journey" also being the original working title for "Twin Peaks: The Return" (according to Mark Frost).


Do you have a source for this? It's really interesting.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:03 am

Trudy Chelgren wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
I think I have figured out exactly where those coordinates lead. "Jornado del Muerto" very close to the Trinity explosion site.
"Jornado del Muerto/Dead Man's Journey" also being the original working title for "Twin Peaks: The Return" (according to Mark Frost).


Do you have a source for this? It's really interesting.


It does appear to be right in that area! Recall that this is also where Parsons and Hubbard were enacting the Thelema ritual in the ‘40s in TSHoTP. Interesting. I have to wonder if it’s just a beautiful coincidence. We know Frost had very little involvement in FWWM, and I can’t imagine that this stuff was anywhere near Lynch’s mind (although he’s surprised me before).
LateReg
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby LateReg » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:46 am

I've read twice recently that Frost's original title was going to be Dead Man's Journey, and I believe you all obviously, but can someone link me the original article/interview? I'd really like to think about what that might mean. Is it in any way supposed to be a literal application to the Cooper character? Even if it isn't, is it simply too on the nose regarding a direction for how to interpret the goings-on of The Return?

Also, fascinating about those coordinates potentially leading to that very place.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:33 am

LateReg wrote:I've read twice recently that Frost's original title was going to be Dead Man's Journey, and I believe you all obviously, but can someone link me the original article/interview?


I believe this was from the Sam Esmail interview: https://m.soundcloud.com/thetalkhouse/esmail-frost-320

Don’t have a timestamp, unfortunately. I think he actually says the name translates to “Dead Man’s Passage,” but he can’t remember the Spanish.

BTW, does anyone who’s visited the FWWM Fat Trout location know if that pole actually has those numbers on it, or were they added for the shoot? I think I recall reading somewhere that they were put up just for the shoot, but I can’t remember where.
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:39 am

I don't think Lynch/Engels came up with all that mythology for FWWM. Rather I think Lynch/Frost had a way more detailed mythology planned out from the original show than we knew about.

F.ex. TSHoTP ties the mythology back to "The Lemurians", the show Lynch/Frost had been shopping around prior to "Twin Peaks". I think Frost had the Crowley/Parsons stuff in his back pocket, also diving into related areas as far back as "The List of 7". I haven't seen his "The Believers" movie (yet), so I don't know if there is anything from there that could also relate.

In terms of the source for the Jornado Del Muerto stuff, then Mr.Reindeer named one source, and then there are additional things like this.

TSHoTP page 255:

Jack Parsons: We were near there (Roswell). In the desert. A place they call Jornada del Muerto.

Dwayne Milford: That's near White Sands, isn't it?

Jack Parsons: Right. It means "Journey of the Dead Man." Isn't that beautiful? The way we all move through our lives.
Eyes closed. head down. shuffling along. Dead before our time. Journeying towards the grave.

Dwayne Milford: That's where they tested the bomb?

Jack Parsons: Yes. Such a furtile ground for the working (the ritual to bring forth "Morther"/the whore of Babylon).

________

I will add another quote from the same chapter here. Even though it does not relate to that location, it is pretty vital to understand the ending of "The Return".

Page 270:
"Once a magician stands between two worlds, he is in danger of not belonging to either one of them."

Implied that Parsons became a "magician" to become more than someone just shuffling towards his grave. A lot like Cooper and his superhero complex.

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