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Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:53 am
by Hockey Mask
Part 9: This is the chair. (7/9)
Day 9 September 29th according to Truman and Hastings
09.01 Evil-Coop walks up to The Farm
09.02 On the plane, Gordon receives call from Colonel to divert to Buckhorn
09.03 Evil-Coop meets Hutch and Chantal
09.04 Gordon informs Diane and pilot going to Buckhorn, Warden Murphy calls Gordon to let him know of Cooper's escape.
09.05 Evil-Coop sends coded text, calls Duncan asking if it's done-better be done next time he calls, Duncan asks Roger to come into his office
09.06 Evil-Coop tells Hutch to kill Warden Murphy, Chantel kisses Evil-Coop goodbye before he drives off, Hutch shoots phone.
09.07 Las Vegas Police Department: The Fuscos interview Bushnell, Bushnell explains Dougie's earlier car accident then tells Dougie they will work together tomorrow, police discuss no info on Dougie before 1997 and cost of taillight, get Dougie's prints off coffee cup, palm prints of Ike came off gun. Dougie-Coop stares at flag, red heels and outlet.
09.08 The Fuscos inspect new taillight
09.09 Ike leaves message that he failed mission, police gather in motel parking lot, Ike arrested in hallway.
09.10 Andy and Lucy argue about what color chair to buy.
09.11 Johnny Horne runs into wall.
09.12 Bobby, Truman and Hawk interview Betty about Garland, Garland had told Betty they would come one day, Betty gives them cylinder hidden in secret compartment of chair "The Chair"-Angelo Badalamenti "This is the chair."-Betty Briggs
09.13 Buckhorn morgue: Diane smokes and receives Evil-Coop's coded text, Detective Macklay tells Gordon & Co. about Hastings' blog, coroner shows them Dougie's ring.
09.14 Jerry fights with his foot in the woods.
09.15 Lucy eats lunch at her desk, Chad eats lunch in conference room, Truman tells him to go to lunchroom, Truman doesn't know how to open capsule.
09.16 Bobby throws capsule at ground, it emits tone, throws again and it opens, note inside says to go to Jack Rabbits Palace on 10/1 and 10/2.
09.17 Diane smokes, joined by Gordon and Tammy.
09.18 Tammy interviews Hastings, Hastings posted about different dimension, Major was hibernating and asked for coordinates, Hastings I.D.'s picture of Major Briggs, Major floated up and said "Cooper, Cooper" before his head disappeared.
09.19 Ben and Beverly hear humming in Great Northern, Ben refuses Beverley's advances.
09.20 Roadhouse: Chloe meets Ella, Chloe mentions a zebra, Ella has job loss and an armpit rash and a new job "Human"-Hudson Mohawke, Ella mentions a penguin "A Violent Yet Flammable World"-Au Revoir Simone.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:54 am
by Hockey Mask
I am no longer extrapolating dates and only noting confirmed dates.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:29 pm
by counterpaul
oxyboldine wrote:
counterpaul wrote:With COOPER's call to Mr. Todd, pretty much all of the potential readings requiring multiple timelines have been eliminated. The only one that still remains vaguely arguable is that everything happening in Twin Peaks is happening before or after everything else...


Yes, the scene with Mr Todd seems to prove that the multiple timelines theory doesn't work, as Mister C. asks him to eliminate Dougie. Dougie and Mister C. exist at the same time (and that's fascinating). Regarding the Twin Peaks scenes, they must take place around the same times too: the key send by Jade arrives some days later at the Great Northern.


The key! Of course. I had a brain fart there. Yes, with Part 9, L/F have now established that all of the storylines are happening at least within a few days of each other, and probably it's all happening at least roughly in the order it's being presented.

- First scene with Lucy, she has a white shirt with red pattern, and red and blue wool sweater (around 22'00). Next scene with Lucy, different clothes: blue sweater and another shirt (another pattern on the collar) (35'00). Did the episode showed us 2 different days? Did the ellipse occured in the black cut after Jerry's hallucinations?


I wouldn't read anything into this. The scene was likely moved here because it worked well to have this nice, light character beat to break up all the plottiness going on around it. Lynch/Dunham elected to fudge continuity a bit in favor of something the helped tonally--the right call, in my opinion.

- So Frank Truman says the 10/1 and the 10/2 are "two days from now, and the day after". It means that Andy's watch was set badly, or that we came back in the past since Part 7. Hawk still have not mentionned his visit to Glastonbury Grove, even now that they are reading Brigg's indications. Once again, maybe that scene in Part 1 happens after that new discovery.


I can see why a lot of people are stuck on that Glastonbury Grove scene. At this point it's probably the strongest argument left that the show could be presenting the story non-chronologically (Andy's watch being basically the only other real evidence left). But it doesn't bother me at all. If Hawk saw something that night, I imagine he'll mention it when the time is right. Dramatically, Hawk's visit served to guide us back to Coop in the red room, and that's all it really needed to do.

- At the end we see once again Au Revoir Simone, which was already on part 4...


I'm reading the majority of the Roadhouse performances (the ones without proper scenes attached) as kind of taking place outside of time. They're basically just bookmarks, placed where we happen to be pausing for the week.

So, it is possible that the scene with Betty happens the same day that Part 4, the day after Bobby's speech to Hawk & Frank, and before the Au Revoir Simone concert.


It wouldn't make sense for the visit to Mrs. Briggs to take place before Hawk found those missing pages. Dramatically speaking, the scene in which Hawk and Frank go over the pages and slowly try to piece together Coop's last day in Twin Peaks would be a huge step backwards if they already had Major Briggs's note.

After all, maybe there is 3 timelines but with a very small shift? Mister C.'s timeline, Dougie's timeline, and Twin Peaks timeline are maybe separated by a few days only. Maybe Andy's watch was rightly set in Part 7, but that the Twin Peaks scenes are secretly edited in a strange way.


It's vaguely possible, but why? I don't think they'd shift things around by a few days in a small, somewhat random handful of scenes unless it served some dramatic/tonal purpose. Which, in the end, it might! Who knows? So far, though, I'm not seeing it. A few slight adjustments aside, for tonal and rhythmic reasons (like the Lucy/Andy chair bit, or placing the first Lorraine scene at the start of Part 5 even though it happened before Coop woke up for his first day at Lucky 7 in Part 4), it really seems like the show's timeline is quite linear.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:01 pm
by oxyboldine
Thanks Counterpaul for your remarks!

counterpaul wrote:It wouldn't make sense for the visit to Mrs. Briggs to take place before Hawk found those missing pages. Dramatically speaking, the scene in which Hawk and Frank go over the pages and slowly try to piece together Coop's last day in Twin Peaks would be a huge step backwards if they already had Major Briggs's note.


There, you can say I had a brain fart! Of course it doesn't work...

counterpaul wrote:It's vaguely possible, but why? I don't think they'd shift things around by a few days in a small, somewhat random handful of scenes unless it served some dramatic/tonal purpose. Which, in the end, it might! Who knows? So far, though, I'm not seeing it. A few slight adjustments aside, for tonal and rhythmic reasons (like the Lucy/Andy chair bit, or placing the first Lorraine scene at the start of Part 5 even though it happened before Coop woke up for his first day at Lucky 7 in Part 4), it really seems like the show's timeline is quite linear.


I guess the first thing that made me immediately search for chronological theories, is that the first 2 seasons were very straightforward : 1 episode=24 hours. We could really see an episode ending at night (for instance diner at the Hayward's), and the following episode beginning at night with the same scene, and then the following day.

Here, season 3 is really "blurred" with chronology. Episode 1 & 2 seems to happen during lots of days, then the other episodes during only 1 day for each. But for some, it seems to go back in time. Part 5 going back to the beginning of part 4 is really something that makes me want to search for other hidden things like that! Everything seems very very meticulously written for this season (the "yrev very" detail that was here on purpose), so maybe clothes and dates on watchs are important... Maybe not! If they are, I guess it will have a dramatic purpose yes!

Other things that push me to seek clues in this way: the fact that Cooper has to fight amnesia (and that Lynch/Frost may have wanted to convey the same feeling to the spectators with chronology?), and that "something's... wrooong", "time and time again", and "is it future or is it past?" are 3 important sentences in Part 1-2.

In any case, Hockey Mask is right doing the timeline with just the concrete clues that we have!

counterpaul wrote:I'm reading the majority of the Roadhouse performances (the ones without proper scenes attached) as kind of taking place outside of time. They're basically just bookmarks, placed where we happen to be pausing for the week.


Maybe, but then again I can't help myself but finding strange to see first a musician, then that dialogue between the two girls, and then Au Revoir Simone.

Maybe Lynch just wants to convey a feeling of repetition and confusion, on purpose. A feeling of deja vu.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:37 pm
by oxyboldine
2 other strange little things:

- Andy doesn't mention his investigation about the truck of the accident, and his appointment at 4:30, "near the Joneses", as seen in Part 7
- Nobody speaks about the death of the little boy, seen in Part 6. However the scene with Andy in Part 7 seemed linked with that.

May Part 6 & 7 really happen the 10th as shown on Andy's watch?

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:56 pm
by counterpaul
oxyboldine wrote:- Andy doesn't mention his investigation about the truck of the accident, and his appointment at 4:30, "near the Joneses", as seen in Part 7
- Nobody speaks about the death of the little boy, seen in Part 6. However the scene with Andy in Part 7 seemed linked with that.


This is actually quite consistent with L/F's storytelling style on this project so far. They'll likely follow up on the hit-and-run arc, but they'll take their sweet time.

I mean, look at everything we learned in Part 9 about what's been going on in Buckhorn! Since Phyllis was killed, we've seen tiny bits and pieces, almost entirely revolving around Briggs, but meanwhile, off screen, they found Phyllis's body, identified the gun that killed her, arrested George, Buckhorn-Betty's car blew up with her in it, and they learned about Bill and Ruth's blog. We just weren't privy to any of it. Who knows what else we aren't seeing!

I can't help myself but finding strange to see first a musician, then that dialogue between the two girls, and then Au Revoir Simone.

Maybe Lynch just wants to convey a feeling of repetition and confusion, on purpose. A feeling of deja vu.


Or, you know, Hudson Mohawke could have been Au Revoir Simone's opening act.

I'm no stranger to reading a lot into Lynch's work (see my posts on other threads), but sometimes a cigar might just be a cigar, as they say. :)

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:13 pm
by oxyboldine
counterpaul wrote:I mean, look at everything we learned in Part 9 about what's been going on in Buckhorn! Since Phyllis was killed, we've seen tiny bits and pieces, almost entirely revolving around Briggs, but meanwhile, off screen, they found Phyllis's body, identified the gun that killed her, arrested George, Buckhorn-Betty's car blew up with her in it, and they learned about Bill and Ruth's blog. We just weren't privy to any of it. Who knows what else we aren't seeing!


Totally agree, it could just be that!

counterpaul wrote:Or, you know, Hudson Mohawke could have been Au Revoir Simone's opening act.

I'm no stranger to reading a lot into Lynch's work (see my posts on other threads), but sometimes a cigar might just be a cigar, as they say. :)


Yes, of course! But here I meant that they really could have done a scene with the dialogue, and only Hudson Mohawke. But Lynch, and Duwayne Dunham, then shows us Au Revoir Simone singing what seems to be the beginning of the Part 4 concert. It's like when I try to stop thinking about "is it future or is it past?", they just put that! :)
But then again, of course, maybe Lynch just wanted to put a piece of Au Revoir Simone right here, for the feeling... why not?

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:16 am
by Dom834
oxyboldine wrote:
counterpaul wrote:But then again, of course, maybe Lynch just wanted to put a piece of Au Revoir Simone right here, for the feeling... why not?



He has to come up with ways to make the exact runtime (the alternative was to have uneven parts, but obviously for reasons his own Lynch and Showtime opted not to do that).

That's part of his bag of tricks to achieve even slices out of an 18hr script. It's not that easy, all the less for Lynch as he loves very long scenes. A director with a lot of 1 min / 2 min scenes could end up 1-2 min off at the end, but someone like Lynch could easily end up being 2-4 min. too short, as the next scene he could add can easily be 6,7,8 min. long...

For part 9 he was obviously a bit short (the next scene either didn't fit well in this part, or it's too long), so Lynch filled it up with the DJ performance before having the bar scene with the girls, and when it was time he started using Au Revoir Simone as background music, before switching to the performance live once the bar scene was over. Notice that the girls don't react in any way to the performance starting.

At this point I don't consider the performances as something realistic. There's a lot of poetic license involved.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:19 pm
by counterpaul
Dom834 wrote:He has to come up with ways to make the exact runtime (the alternative was to have uneven parts, but obviously for reasons his own Lynch and Showtime opted not to do that).


Actually, this isn't true. The lengths of Parts have been pretty close, but have varied enough that it's clear Lynch feels no need to pad them. For example, Part 1 is almost exactly an hour and Part 2 is less than 54 minutes. Part 2 has been the shortest so far, but others have been between around 55 minutes and 58 minutes.

On pay cable, it's not unusual at all for the length of episodes of "hour long" shows to vary anywhere from 45 minutes to a little over an hour. It seems like Lynch has been aiming for around 56-58 minutes (that's definitely the average thus far), but he'll go a bit shorter or longer as needed. Certainly none of the closing Roadhouse performances have been longer than the six minute difference we've seen in the duration of the Parts.

I just think that Lynch likes to generally let things play out, so if he's closing a Part with a song, he's likely going to let the whole song play.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:45 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
So, complicating things further, Hastings says in Part 9 that the night that Ruth died was "last Thursday." If we're taking the series editing/sequence at face value, this does not gel with Part 9 being 9/29 and DoppelCoop being arrested a week earlier on 9/22 (with Hastings's arrest three days before that).

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:08 pm
by counterpaul
Mr. Reindeer wrote:So, complicating things further, Hastings says in Part 9 that the night that Ruth died was "last Thursday." If we're taking the series editing/sequence at face value, this does not gel with Part 9 being 9/29 and DoppelCoop being arrested a week earlier on 9/22 (with Hastings's arrest three days before that).


9/22 for Coop's arrest is definitely out the window if the Hastings interview is on 9/29. Since the arrest report (which is where we got the 9/22 date) is never featured (it's a quick, throwaway shot--what we're supposed to be looking at is the picture of COOPER) and the birthdate on there is totally wrong anyway, I have no problem just chucking the 9/22 date completely. It's just a tiny production error only the most eagle-eyed will catch, anyway.

Ruth died Thursday, 9/22. Bill was arrested the following Saturday, 9/24. COOPER was arrested the Monday after that (9/26). COOPER was let out of jail a couple of days later (1am Wednesday night/Thursday morning, 9/28 or technically early on 9/29). The next day the FBI came to Buckhorn and we're all caught up (still 9/29).

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:03 am
by Hockey Mask
counterpaul wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:So, complicating things further, Hastings says in Part 9 that the night that Ruth died was "last Thursday." If we're taking the series editing/sequence at face value, this does not gel with Part 9 being 9/29 and DoppelCoop being arrested a week earlier on 9/22 (with Hastings's arrest three days before that).


9/22 for Coop's arrest is definitely out the window if the Hastings interview is on 9/29. Since the arrest report (which is where we got the 9/22 date) is never featured (it's a quick, throwaway shot--what we're supposed to be looking at is the picture of COOPER) and the birthdate on there is totally wrong anyway, I have no problem just chucking the 9/22 date completely. It's just a tiny production error only the most eagle-eyed will catch, anyway.

Ruth died Thursday, 9/22. Bill was arrested the following Saturday, 9/24. COOPER was arrested the Monday after that (9/26). COOPER was let out of jail a couple of days later (1am Wednesday night/Thursday morning, 9/28 or technically early on 9/29). The next day the FBI came to Buckhorn and we're all caught up (still 9/29).

I agree. That looks like how it will work out.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:54 am
by referendum
@COUNTERPAUL
i was wondering about the timeline
Ruth died Thursday, 9/22. Bill was arrested the following Saturday, 9/24. COOPER was arrested the Monday after that (9/26). COOPER was let out of jail a couple of days later (1am Wednesday night/Thursday morning, 9/28 or technically early on 9/29). The next day the FBI came to Buckhorn and we're all caught up (still 9/29).

The above is assuming the body/head was discovered 9/23 or 9/24, more likely 24 as It has to have time to start smelling for it to be reported and for it to develop lividity. So body/head discovered and Hastings arrested on same day?.
So that gives an ep 1-9 timeline of 5 days.
There have been 7 roadhouse gigs so far. I had assumed these at one per night. So maybe the end titles and bands don't fit into the overall timeline? But some of them seem to ( eg Richard Horne smoking, James Hurley being '' still cool'' etc) .
Or maybe this is another one of those slight continuity wobbles. They don't really bother me. :)

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:06 pm
by counterpaul
referendum wrote:The above is assuming the body/head was discovered 9/23 or 9/24, more likely 24 as It has to have time to start smelling for it to be reported and for it to develop lividity. So body/head discovered and Hastings arrested on same day?.


It's not totally clear whether they arrested Bill the same day as they found Ruth's body or the next day. There is the Log Lady/Hawk scene, which seems to happen in the evening, between the discovery of the body and Bill's arrest. The placement of that scene might have been a slight fudge, timeline-wise (there have been a couple of those--see the Lorraine scene at the beginning of Part 5, which takes place before the Coop Take 5 breakfast scene), so it's a little ambiguous. Everything before COOPER's arrest and Coop's appearance in Vegas is slightly muddy. Since that day (Monday, 9/26), the timeline is very obvious--just watch Coop's days at Lucky 7. It's a very straight line.

So that gives an ep 1-9 timeline of 5 days.


Not quite. Parts 1-2 cover a few days and then things slow way down. Check out the timeline on the first page of this thread, which puts on Day 9 now--I think it's probably close, though, again, before COOPER's arrest/Coop's appearance in Vegas, things are slightly ambiguous.

There have been 7 roadhouse gigs so far. I had assumed these at one per night. So maybe the end titles and bands don't fit into the overall timeline?


The stand-alone Roadhouse gigs are most definitely outside of the timeline. This is not a one-day-per-episode structure like S1-S2. Most obviously, the Roadhouse gigs at the end of Part 4 and Part 6 break up scenes on the same day (Part 4 ends early in the morning--before Coop leaves for his first day at Lucky 7--and Part 6 ends in early-mid afternoon with Part 7 picking up slightly later that same day). The performances that aren't attached to scenes are just bookmarks.

But some of them seem to ( eg Richard Horne smoking, James Hurley being '' still cool'' etc) .
Or maybe this is another one of those slight continuity wobbles. They don't really bother me. :)


The Roadhouse gigs attached to scenes have, so far, fit into the timeline well. I am wondering about the most recent one, though, as it seems like Part 9 indicated that we'd see a scene with Coop at the doctor on the same day (Bushnell gave him the day off and Janey-E said she'd use that time to take him to the doctor). When it cut to the Great Northern at night, I was surprised. Maybe the doctor's visit will happen off screen, or maybe there will be another fudge. We should be able to figure out pretty easily whether Part 10 picks up on the same day or not if we see Coop at the doctor. If so, the Ben/Beverly and Roadhouse scenes in Part 9 will be timeline fudges.

Re: Season 3 Timeline (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:25 pm
by oxyboldine
referendum wrote:@COUNTERPAUL
i was wondering about the timeline
Ruth died Thursday, 9/22. Bill was arrested the following Saturday, 9/24. COOPER was arrested the Monday after that (9/26). COOPER was let out of jail a couple of days later (1am Wednesday night/Thursday morning, 9/28 or technically early on 9/29). The next day the FBI came to Buckhorn and we're all caught up (still 9/29).

The above is assuming the body/head was discovered 9/23 or 9/24, more likely 24 as It has to have time to start smelling for it to be reported and for it to develop lividity. So body/head discovered and Hastings arrested on same day?.


I think it's two days. Between the discovery of the body and the following scenes, Constance as a different shirt, and Dave as a different tie. I think clothes are important to find out the chronology on season 3!
I would love to read the chronology files of the script-girl and the costume designer :)