Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

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chalfont
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby chalfont » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:53 pm

kornishpyxee wrote:I was wondering if the "Cooper...Cooper...Cooper" message that Briggs got from Listening Post Alpha (also part of original series, season 1?) was a warning that there would actually be 3 Coopers--Cooper, COOPER, and Dougie.

Jenn (kornishpyxee)

Had no idea where to post this. Found it interesting:'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:50 pm

chalfont wrote:
kornishpyxee wrote:I was wondering if the "Cooper...Cooper...Cooper" message that Briggs got from Listening Post Alpha (also part of original series, season 1?) was a warning that there would actually be 3 Coopers--Cooper, COOPER, and Dougie.

Jenn (kornishpyxee)

Had no idea where to post this. Found it interesting:'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3169&start=240&hilit=dreams Here probably.

Briggs doesn't detail what the triple Cooper message said in SH, but that has come up several times across the board.


Also, Milford tells young Andy Packard that he met the One Armed Man according to his news story. I don't think that comes up again. Andy sees the (or a) Giant with a strike of lightning, too. We do see a scene of thunder and lightning in the new season!
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alreadygoneplaces
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:02 pm

I was really torn over whether I wanted to read TSHOTP or not, and in the end, a scathing review (of sorts) made me decide not to. Let me quote it:

-----

"The Secret History of Twin Peaks presents itself as the contents of a “dossier” found in an undisclosed “crime scene” encased in a carbon steel box. Consisting of semi-censored intelligence reports, 19th-century diary entries, newspaper clippings and other forms of mock documentation, it purports to place “the unexplained phenomena that unfolded” in the original series within “a vastly layered, wide-ranging history, beginning with the journals of Lewis and Clark and ending with the shocking events that closed the finale.” Sadly, that history consists of a farrago of all the most threadbare fetishes of 20th-century conspiracy theory. The detritus that Frost tosses into his stale mix ranges from the death of Merriwether Lewis, the Illuminati, and the Freemasons to the Kennedy assassination, Scientology, and Richard Nixon. Even Bigfoot makes a cameo. But above all, the eerie events and motifs of the 1990 series get attributed to UFOs. Those owls that are not what they seem? They’re nothing more interesting than the bug-eyed aliens beloved of supermarket tabloids.

The Secret History of Twin Peaks drapes its tired schtick in lot of portentous allusions and foreshadowing. Much is made of the need to discover the identity of the person who compiled the dossier, even though his name (which anyone familiar with the series will have guessed almost immediately) is revealed in the final chapters. The documents have been annotated by an FBI analyst who acts the Dana Scully part: the skeptic slowly won over by the weight of evidence to the belief that everything ominous and disturbing in the world is covertly connected and all of it can be traced back to Twin Peaks.

Much of the spell cast by the original series lay in its isolated Northwestern small-town setting. (Those shots of the lonesome traffic light swinging by its cables over an empty road by night!) The woods around the town represented everything incomprehensible about humanity’s place in the world and about the deepest recesses of our own psyches. The creepy power of Lynch’s vision comes from the ready access he seems to enjoy not only to his own unconscious mind but to his viewers’ as well. What a bummer to see all of that reduced to the banal fantasies of a garden-variety paranoid.

In a note of unwitting irony, Frost has the “archivist” who compiled this dossier elaborate on his theories about the differences between secrets and mysteries: "… a secret is only a secret as long as you keep it. Once you tell someone, it loses all of its power, for good or ill. Like that, it’s just another piece of information. But a real mystery can’t be solved, not completely. It’s always just out of reach, like a light around the corner. You might catch a glimpse of what it reveals, but you can’t know the heart of it, not really. That’s what gives it value. It can’t be cracked. It’s bigger than you and me, bigger than everything we know."

Exactly. And that explains why The Secret History of Twin Peaks turns out to be the perfect title for Frost’s book. There’s not a drop of mystery left in it by the time he’s done."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... peaks.html

----

So... I'm asking to all you Peaks fans who've read it out of genuine curiosity, is this fair? Unfair? I have to admit I cringe a little when I hear about some of the things that are this book second hand (they made me fear for this new series, so I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised) but I'm also aware that anything can be made to sound bad when written about in a certain way. I'd be delighted to be convinced otherwise...
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:49 am

I think that reviewer overstates the case. Naturally TSHoTP is cover-to-cover Frost. It is packed with paranoid conspiracy over various institutions. Consequently it feels like it belongs to a different show, or at least a very narrow aperture on the show. However, it forms an interesting narrative that does something different with the raw materials, as well as fleshing out the history of the regions it deals with. It does its own thing, and small elements of it feed back into the new episodes, but nothing I think that would be essential to the viewing.

The important thing I found is to recognise that it is distinctive and different to the feel of the show both old and new, and can't provide that (even after compensating for the difference in medium). As such I found that the ideal way to approach it is to read it in parenthesis, as a supplemental (almost 'spin-off' you might say) work with its own relative autonomy, and not as a work that stays close to the heart of the original material and its atmosphere.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:44 am

I don't agree with that Slate review. If you've read a lot of books about the illuminati and Freemasons I can see that the book may be boring, if you've read conspiracy theory books about Sasquatch sightings and UFOology and such I can see how the Frost book may seem unoriginal, but that genre is fresh enough to me that I liked it.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:42 am

That review stinks. I mean, I think it's fair to say that if you're genuinely not interested in any conspiracy theory stuff, you may be pretty bored by the book. But otherwise, I'd find it at a library and make up your own mind (if you're hesitant to spend money on buying it). The writer of that review, while attacking Mark for being unoriginal, ironically parrots the same predictable, inaccurate and reductive "Lynch did all the cool innovative stuff, Frost was just a typical TV writer who kept things grounded" narrative. Yawn.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:58 pm

pp 147

"Carl Rodd's new home was the Fat Trout trailer park outside Twin Peaks on the way to Wind River"


*geographic location supports my theory that :

1) The phone pole in 3x6 is the same phone pole we see at Old Fat Trout, it has the same geographic coordinates, is the same place on the main power line (#6.) An apartment complex was built over Old Fat Trout before Laura was murdered, which I believe will be Stephen's apartment.

2) The intersection where Mike accosts Leland and Laura on their way to meet Sarah is the same location as the Old Fat Trout. **Doesn't matter that it's near the RR in Twin Peaks as IRL that intersection is 2 miles from the real RR. Deer Meadow borders Twin Peaks.

"a town that was later listed as a place of interest in an ongoing FBI investgation of some kind during the late 80's and early 90's. It is a classified file of the highest order and I need time to obtain sufficient clearance to examine it."

pp 322 The Archivist discusses the Teresa Banks murder and Deer Meadow, mentioned Sam Stanley and Chester Desmond. He asks why the FBI would come all the way up to investigate a murder, which is something that's troubled fans since the beginning :!: :!: :?: And he knows about the missing ring and the letter "T." All Tammy can find related to Sam and Chet is they mysterious short list from an erased documents on the secure server in the FBI Philadelphia office: Cole, Jerffries, Desmond, Stanley, Earle, Cooper, Rosenfield.

:?: In "Diane The Twin Peaks Tapes of Agent Cooper," Cooper says the FBI involvement is because as follows, but we know in TMP that he knows all about Blue Rose cases:


Case number is: 11219er, you’ll have a copy of the file on your desk by the time you receive this. Victim: seventeen year old white female, dead, bound and wrapped in plastic. Cause of death- unknown. Says here she was the Homecoming Queen. Second victim, discovered alive, was found across the state line, which is why it’s our business now. Suspects are in custody. Will assess their value upon arrival.


In The Autobiography of Special Agent Dale Cooper, the reasoning reported to Diane is:

Diane, looks like I'm going to be out of town for a while. There's been a murder in a town in the southwest part of the state of Washington. The state authorities assume from the condition of the body that kidnapping was involved and have asked the Bureau to look into the case.

Gordon has asked me to handle it because he has this feeling it may be a serial event and none of the agents in that district have direct experience with one. I catch the 1 1 A.M. flight to Portland, where I pick up a car and head for the town of Deer Meadow. An hour or so north.


Cooper knows more than he's letting on to Diane for the official record, and maybe we'll finally have the answer as to why Desmond/Stanley come in for the Banks case and find the "T" in FWWM, but Cooper is called in on the Banks case and find the "T" in the Autobiography. Worth noting Cooper investigates Teresa working at the Cross River Cafe, not Hap's Diner, and lived in a tourist rental cabin- not a trailer park- and he attends her burial in an unmarked grave, and the Owl Cave ring is never mentioned.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby MoondogJR » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:46 am

This is a reaction to something asked/discussed in the non-spoiler thread, but I'm gonna post the following here. It just seems a better place

sylvia_north wrote:
MoondogJR wrote:For me the books are canon. Yes, there are A LOT of inconsistancies. But most of them I can 'filter out' in my mind.

But there's one that particularly bothers me since the new season is airing. I'll add a spoiler tag because of the place where this topic is.

Tamara Preston receives the dossier (TSHOTP) in 2016. I think it's safe to say the show takes place in 2013 or 2014 (1989 Lucy is pregnant, Wally Brando is 24).
This doesn't make any sense, because it's clear to me that Tamara Preston reads the dossier before the events in season 3. Or am I misinterpreting something here? Please enlighten me! :)
It bothers me more than other continuity errors, because both works were made so close to each other by the two main show-creators working toghether and it seems odd Frost nor Lynch talked about this to each other.


Cole mails the dossier to Tamara Preston at an address in Twin Peaks, you can see it in the book trailer. A redditor said "Cooper slams his head into the mirror on March 28th, 1989. Marlon Brando's birthday is April 3rd. Lucy wasn't 8 months pregnant in the tv show. If we assume twin peaks the return is taking place in 2014 (25 years later) then Wally was born 4/3/1990"


In that case (if the investigation of the dossier by Tammy Preston in TSHOTP takes place AFTER the events of season 3:

- I am very disapointed in TSHOTP and consider it ferom now on as non-canon

OR

- this could mean that after season 3 nothing is resolved because Tammy still is looking into a dossier that mentions a dissapeared Agent Cooper (as if he hasn't returned yet). But I doubt if they would give away such a spoiler...

OR

- I'm misinterpreting the entire situation (could be, only read TSHOTP once): in that case, I'll ask again: please enlighten me!
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:52 am

I'm not assuming that the promo video is canon. Nothing in the actual text of the book indicates that Tammy ever visits TP during the course of the novel.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:01 am

I think Secret History clearly takes place before Twin Peaks season 3. The timelines may not be consistent. Imagine Frost's editors were able to watch the new show and catch any timeline errors before publication and all is well with the world :)

Promo videos are like movie trailers: meant to sell the book, but not necessarily meant to be 100% accurate about what the book is about. I wouldn't think a trailer is canon.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:06 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I'm not assuming that the promo video is canon. Nothing in the actual text of the book indicates that Tammy ever visits TP during the course of the novel.


Nothing indicates that's she's not in Twin Peaks, either
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:15 am

sylvia_north wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I'm not assuming that the promo video is canon. Nothing in the actual text of the book indicates that Tammy ever visits TP during the course of the novel.


Nothing indicates that's she's not in Twin Peaks, either


The way she speaks about the town implies some level of distance/unfamiliarity to my mind... and at the end of the book she says that her only assignment was to analyze the dossier and determine its author (she says she's without an active assignment after completing that task)....so it wouldn't make much sense to send her to TP simply to read the dossier. But I guess we'll see what the show and TFD reveal!
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Leacock » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:32 pm

alreadygoneplaces wrote:I was really torn over whether I wanted to read TSHOTP or not, and in the end, a scathing review (of sorts) made me decide not to. Let me quote it:

-----

"The Secret History of Twin Peaks presents itself as the contents of a “dossier” found in an undisclosed “crime scene” encased in a carbon steel box. Consisting of semi-censored intelligence reports, 19th-century diary entries, newspaper clippings and other forms of mock documentation, it purports to place “the unexplained phenomena that unfolded” in the original series within “a vastly layered, wide-ranging history, beginning with the journals of Lewis and Clark and ending with the shocking events that closed the finale.” Sadly, that history consists of a farrago of all the most threadbare fetishes of 20th-century conspiracy theory. The detritus that Frost tosses into his stale mix ranges from the death of Merriwether Lewis, the Illuminati, and the Freemasons to the Kennedy assassination, Scientology, and Richard Nixon. Even Bigfoot makes a cameo. But above all, the eerie events and motifs of the 1990 series get attributed to UFOs. Those owls that are not what they seem? They’re nothing more interesting than the bug-eyed aliens beloved of supermarket tabloids.

The Secret History of Twin Peaks drapes its tired schtick in lot of portentous allusions and foreshadowing. Much is made of the need to discover the identity of the person who compiled the dossier, even though his name (which anyone familiar with the series will have guessed almost immediately) is revealed in the final chapters. The documents have been annotated by an FBI analyst who acts the Dana Scully part: the skeptic slowly won over by the weight of evidence to the belief that everything ominous and disturbing in the world is covertly connected and all of it can be traced back to Twin Peaks.

Much of the spell cast by the original series lay in its isolated Northwestern small-town setting. (Those shots of the lonesome traffic light swinging by its cables over an empty road by night!) The woods around the town represented everything incomprehensible about humanity’s place in the world and about the deepest recesses of our own psyches. The creepy power of Lynch’s vision comes from the ready access he seems to enjoy not only to his own unconscious mind but to his viewers’ as well. What a bummer to see all of that reduced to the banal fantasies of a garden-variety paranoid.

In a note of unwitting irony, Frost has the “archivist” who compiled this dossier elaborate on his theories about the differences between secrets and mysteries: "… a secret is only a secret as long as you keep it. Once you tell someone, it loses all of its power, for good or ill. Like that, it’s just another piece of information. But a real mystery can’t be solved, not completely. It’s always just out of reach, like a light around the corner. You might catch a glimpse of what it reveals, but you can’t know the heart of it, not really. That’s what gives it value. It can’t be cracked. It’s bigger than you and me, bigger than everything we know."

Exactly. And that explains why The Secret History of Twin Peaks turns out to be the perfect title for Frost’s book. There’s not a drop of mystery left in it by the time he’s done."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... peaks.html

----

So... I'm asking to all you Peaks fans who've read it out of genuine curiosity, is this fair? Unfair? I have to admit I cringe a little when I hear about some of the things that are this book second hand (they made me fear for this new series, so I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised) but I'm also aware that anything can be made to sound bad when written about in a certain way. I'd be delighted to be convinced otherwise...


I think it is a very lazy review, one of the issues the reviewer seems to take most exception to is the extraterrestrial concerns but that was clearly established back in season 2.

Really I think the problem is that the reviewer took it all at face value, and you aren't supposed to, most of the content of the book isn't really true in the sense of the series, it is just people trying to make sense of the unknowable. That is why Frost included real conspiracies (like America's highest ranking soldier being an agent of the Spanish Crown) with the fictional ones. The book establishes that the TP world extends far beyond the confines of the town, which is of course what the first few episodes of s3 were all about.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:53 pm

Spoiler:
well the one thing that made me reconsider that the body was not Briggs, was the bit about Meriwether Lewis in the book and his body being remarkably well preserved.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:11 pm

Thanks to all who replied to my question, I'm now inclined to believe the review was a hatchet job, but I'm still not sure if it's for me.

Leacock wrote:one of the issues the reviewer seems to take most exception to is the extraterrestrial concerns but that was clearly established back in season 2.


I don't see any extraterrestrial link as being clearly established in s2, other than that Project Blue Book were (at least initially) looking for them... I would then ask if that's the extent of the alien link in the book, but since I'll probably end up reading it one day, I'll save myself the spoiler.

Leacock wrote:Really I think the problem is that the reviewer took it all at face value, and you aren't supposed to, most of the content of the book isn't really true in the sense of the series, it is just people trying to make sense of the unknowable.


Ah, so are these conspiracies and explanations presented as speculation? That changes things... one of the main obstacles I have is hating idea of it boiling down to "it was aliens/Native American spirits/satanists wot done it", or it being reduced to some sort of run of the mill x-files conspiracy. I guess I should just read the book and then judge. As long as the actual new series continues not to disappoint, then I doubt not liking this book would cheapen it.

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