Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

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Saturn's child
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:56 am

laughingpinecone wrote:Probably meaningful, yeah!


I was born on the 7th, so I'm lapping up all the 7's! :D
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:16 pm

laughingpinecone wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:If I recall correctly, it is 7 question marks for Struycken's name -- ???????

Probably meaningful, yeah!


The first thing I did when I saw the credits was to count the question marks. Something like that is not going to be left to chance. I took the seven question marks as confirmation that the giant is good. I didn't feel it was a name change, because "the giant" isn't a proper name, but more of a description. This particular being may not have what we'd understand to be a proper name.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Fire-blog-with-me » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:22 pm

In the Jack Parsons section of TSHOTP, it's discussed that the function of Parsons ritual involving Hell Gate/Devil's Gate was to "summon into human form the spirit of a figure central to the Thelema pantheon, the goddess Babalon, known as the Mother of Abominations." (Frost, pg 258).

In Part 3, during the excellent and obliterating opening sequence set in the Purple Room/Mauve Room (or Purple/Mauve Tower, as I'm calling it), there is a disturbing unsettling knocking on the door. Naido and American Girl are both fearful of the source of this knocking, with American Girl referring to her as "Mother".

Seems like whatever scares Naido and American Girl, which knocked like thunder, and is the Mother of (at least) American Girl is also The Mother of Abominations. Seems like this (post-)Lodge space is what Parsons was hoping to tap into.

This syncs up nicely with some of the readings of that opening scene and Purple/Mauve Room/Tower as the Qabbalistic realm of Binah. See Diane podcast for more on that...
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:11 pm

Here's what should happen, if things are to correctly line up between TSHOTP and the new series:

1) A significant crime occurs in Twin Peaks, prompting Gordon Cole to dispatch Tamara Preston
2) At the crime scene, the Briggs' dossier is discovered and then mailed to the FBI
3) The dossier is then mailed back to Tamara Preston in Twin Peaks

Another possibility is that Preston is sent to Twin Peaks to investigate about Dale Cooper, and her arrival prompts or simply coincides with the crime. Either way, shit is about to go down in town, and I can't wait!
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby dreamshake » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:37 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:Here's what should happen, if things are to correctly line up between TSHOTP and the new series:

1) A significant crime occurs in Twin Peaks, prompting Gordon Cole to dispatch Tamara Preston
2) At the crime scene, the Briggs' dossier is discovered and then mailed to the FBI
3) The dossier is then mailed back to Tamara Preston in Twin Peaks

Another possibility is that Preston is sent to Twin Peaks to investigate about Dale Cooper, and her arrival prompts or simply coincides with the crime. Either way, shit is about to go down in town, and I can't wait!


I wonder if she's dispatched to Twin Peaks and Gordon and Albert investigate Bad Coop's dealings in Buckhorn and then those two stories come back together when it's discovered that the body in Ruth Davenport's apartment is Briggs.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:00 pm

dreamshake wrote:
I wonder if she's dispatched to Twin Peaks and Gordon and Albert investigate Bad Coop's dealings in Buckhorn and then those two stories come back together when it's discovered that the body in Ruth Davenport's apartment is Briggs.


I really really doubt Briggs is in South Dakota, and that they'd violate his body like that. From Bobby we learn that Cooper met with Major Briggs died in a fire at the station -Listening Post Alpha, I presume, BEFORE Cooper left town-- which was before Wally was born 24 years ago :!: :!: :!:

In episode 2, Mr. C's conversation with Jeffries he also mentions that Mr C met with Briggs (when on the timeline isn't stated implicitly, but Major Briggs has been dead for quite some time.)

C: Phillip? You're late.
J: Couldn't be helped. I missed you in New York, but I see you're still in Buckhorn.
J: And you're still nowhere, is that correct? You met with Major Garland Briggs.
C: How did you know that? Phillip?
J: Actually, I just called to say good-bye.
C: This is Phillip Jeffries, right?
J: You're going back in tomorrow, and I will be with Bob again.



In the book, the last we know of Briggs is that he shared the dossier with Cooper once he was delivered to recover to the Great Northern in Season 2- bad info to fall into the future Mr C's hands, assuming that Dopplecoop from Season 2 is Mr C, who says in prison.

"Gordon, I've been working undercover all these years, working primarily with our colleague Phillip Jeffries.
I need to be debriefed by you about this work, Gordon.
I will tell you the whole story, all its twists and turns, and I was going to do so.
I was on my way to present it to you.
I was a little bit behind schedule when my car veered over across the road, and I had my accident."


Mentions of Jeffries, possibly voiced by Scott Coffey in the show, in TSHoTP:

2. The DOJ declassified communication Doug Milford enlisted Gordon Cole to satisfy Dwayne Milford and the town about LPA/SETI ARRAY/Blue Pine project construction, using the false story about Reagan's SDI aka "star wars," signed by Cole and Agent Jeffries.

3. Thus far, Preston deduces Cole as Nixon's trusted contact in the FBI in Milford's journal entry. In this conversation with President Nixon, Nixon mentions Gleem Aquarius/Wise Men/Study Group (MJ 12) started in 1966, who gave the 90% "horseshit" UFO cases to Milford and took the cases that "popped" themselves, and shut down Blue Book because they had made contact multiple times and were engaging in highly covert ops and coverups "they'd sooner drown the cat then let it out of the bag"-- that the group is reverse engineering alien technology found at Roswell, a crash in 1949 and another in 1958-- also that there are rumors of bases, vast complexes, in Nevada, Wash. State and elsewhere. *** In episode 4 we learn that Albert gave Cooper information about Jeffries***

I authorized Phillip [off the radar for years] to give Cooper some information.
This was years ago, Gordon.
He called me. I know.
I thought Cooper was in trouble At least that's what Phillip said.
"Urgent," he said.
Cooper needed this information urgently.
I told Phillip who our man was in Columbia.
A week later, that man was killed.



4. Preston's footnote says that she's troubled by this revelation in the dossier about her superior officer, and can only find mention of him in FBI files that "he trained at Quantico with Cole where they graduated as the top two agents in their class of 1968." In 1987, he vanishes on assignment in Buenos Aires, reappeared in 1989 in Philadelphia, which is consistent with FWWM and TMP and disappears again. She must requisition classified deputy director files to learn more and expresses concern for her job safety if she shows anyone the journal entry. ** In episode 4, Preston asks who Jeffries is, and gets shut down by Cole for wearing the wire she had been instructed by Cole to wear.**

5. Preston also sees Jeffries name on a "erased document recovered from a secure serves in the FBO's Philadelphia office" searching for Sam Stanley and Chester Desmond, the names mentioned by the Archivist regarding the Teresa Banks investigation, along with Cole, Windom Earle, Cooper and Albert on an otherwise blank page from an unknown computer. Stanley was placed on leave for a breakdown, according to Preston, after Desmond's disappearance. ** In the Pilot, Cooper tells Diane to notify Albert instead of Sam about Laura's letter "R." in The MIssing Pieces, he gives to Sam- who is not on leave and appears to be fine and on the job still- did he have his breakdown after this moment? Or is this story a blue rose cover up (drowning the cat, so to speak?). **
Last edited by sylvia_north on Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Rudagger » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:36 pm

sylvia_north wrote:** In the Pilot, Cooper gives the letter under Laura's nail to Albert, but in The MIssing Pieces, he gives it to Sam- who is not on leave and appears to be fine and on the job a year later. **


Huh? I don't think that happens. He interacts with Sam Stanley once, and it's talking briefly about Chet Desmonds' disappearance (before Coop he's to the Trailer Park). It isn't a year after Desmond's disappearance, as far as I can recall.. There's nothing with Coop giving the letter under Laura's nail to Sam Stanley, unless you're maybe confusing the discussion about the one that was stuck under Teresa Palmer's nail.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:49 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:Here's what should happen, if things are to correctly line up between TSHOTP and the new series:

1) A significant crime occurs in Twin Peaks, prompting Gordon Cole to dispatch Tamara Preston
2) At the crime scene, the Briggs' dossier is discovered and then mailed to the FBI
3) The dossier is then mailed back to Tamara Preston in Twin Peaks

Another possibility is that Preston is sent to Twin Peaks to investigate about Dale Cooper, and her arrival prompts or simply coincides with the crime. Either way, shit is about to go down in town, and I can't wait!


I don't believe there is anything in TSHoTP to indicate that the crime scene was in Twin Peaks, nor that Tamara ever sets foot in TP. As far as I can recollect after three readings, Tamara spends the entirety of the book in her Philadelphia office reading, and at the end of the book is awaiting reassignment following completion of the dossier.

Not a direct reference, but Jacoby's self-righteous anti-establishment infomercial dialogue in Part 5 (and Tamblyn's supremely eccentric delivery) are very reminiscent of TSHoTP and the audiobook.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:24 am

Rudagger wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:** In the Pilot, Cooper gives the letter under Laura's nail to Albert, but in The MIssing Pieces, he gives it to Sam- who is not on leave and appears to be fine and on the job a year later. **


Huh? I don't think that happens. He interacts with Sam Stanley once, and it's talking briefly about Chet Desmonds' disappearance (before Coop he's to the Trailer Park). It isn't a year after Desmond's disappearance, as far as I can recall.. There's nothing with Coop giving the letter under Laura's nail to Sam Stanley, unless you're maybe confusing the discussion about the one that was stuck under Teresa Palmer's nail.


Oops you're right of course. It was after Desmond disappeared, it was the Teresa letter- the inconsistency is that he still seems to be doing fine. Totes my bad thanks for correcting that obvious booboo. I only watched TMP once. *facepalm* I'll go back and edit

Regardless, a year later, Sam still seems to be working for the FBI because Cooper tells Diane not to give the letter to Sam, but to Albert, and Sam seems to be doing fine after Desmond's disappearance when he first meets with Cooper in TMP scene where Sam shows Cooper the letter "t."
From these details we can speculate that the dossier is a different timeline/universe, or that the file was doctored to eliminate Sam from the Banks/Palmer blue rose case and any other future work that he did for the Bureau. The story about Sam having an alcoholic break could also be a fabrication to answer Sam being disposed with because he's not supposed to know what the blue rose stands for.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:57 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:Here's what should happen, if things are to correctly line up between TSHOTP and the new series:

1) A significant crime occurs in Twin Peaks, prompting Gordon Cole to dispatch Tamara Preston
2) At the crime scene, the Briggs' dossier is discovered and then mailed to the FBI
3) The dossier is then mailed back to Tamara Preston in Twin Peaks

Another possibility is that Preston is sent to Twin Peaks to investigate about Dale Cooper, and her arrival prompts or simply coincides with the crime. Either way, shit is about to go down in town, and I can't wait!


I don't believe there is anything in TSHoTP to indicate that the crime scene was in Twin Peaks, nor that Tamara ever sets foot in TP. As far as I can recollect after three readings, Tamara spends the entirety of the book in her Philadelphia office reading, and at the end of the book is awaiting reassignment following completion of the dossier.

Not a direct reference, but Jacoby's self-righteous anti-establishment infomercial dialogue in Part 5 (and Tamblyn's supremely eccentric delivery) are very reminiscent of TSHoTP and the audiobook.


In the video preview for TSHOTP, the dossier is mailed to Tamara Preston at a Twin Peaks address, from Gordon Cole in Philadelphia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kinf5ApBjmg
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:30 pm

Has no one mentioned the Owl Cave ring? I know it was in FWWM too, but it featured heavily in TSHOTP. It was the first thing I thought of when the Log Lady told Hawk something was missing that had to do with his heritage.
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:15 am

ThumbsUp wrote:Has no one mentioned the Owl Cave ring? I know it was in FWWM too, but it featured heavily in TSHOTP. It was the first thing I thought of when the Log Lady told Hawk something was missing that had to do with his heritage.




Here's a ring refresher, since the ring is back in the Lodge.

In SHoTP

Early America:

-Chief Twisted Hair gives Lewis the ring from a pouch (Hawk is the son of a Nez Perce sawmill employee in SH, in Access Guide he's the son of a Zuni shaman. In the series, he talks about "his people" believing in the Dweller on the Threshold, which is a Buddhist concept adopted by Theosophy)
- Lewis sees the Red Room meets with a silent man, and writes to Jefferson that he should have heeded his warning (Preston uncertain if Twisted Hair or silent man warns Lewis.) He destroys the native map, and keeps the ring
- Lewis investigates various supernatural elements at Jefferson’s behest
- Lewis is murdered by knife
- Mayor James Neely steals Lewis’s possessions from General James Wilkinson including the ring and his bloody (the blood of others) Masonic apron
- Neely vanishes for months

Midcentury America - early 1980's

Douglas Milford observes Jack Parsons wearing the ring on 2 occasions over three years during field research on matters of national security regarding Jack Parsons for US Air Force’s Project Grudge (turned Sign)
- Project Sign is shut down and President Truman’s UFO team Majestic 12 begins working in secret. Milford begins work for Project Blue Book, a public operation.
- Parsons dies in an explosion, murder by bomb or accident (L Ron believes the magician summoned a fire demon.)
- 1973 retired Milford subrosa invesitgator working for Nixon visits President, now in his second term, in Key Biscayne, Fla. Nixon has the ring
- Colonel Milford handpicks Briggs for Twin Peaks investigation, tells him some are chosen to learn more about the otherworldly forces that humans may never begin to understand, or are chosen for other purposes, good bad or ambivalent

Twin Peaks era SHoTP

- Milford tells Briggs Cooper’s presence is important because of his association with his secret allies and that it raises the ante of their stated mission, and turned Twin Peaks into a hotbed of supernatural phenomena that Cooper himself experiences
- LPA activity in Ghostwood Forest singles Cooper out directly- clearly a fellow chosen one (chosen to learn more about the origin of all supernatural phenomena, or for other purposes.)
- Briggs is abducted
- Milford dies (or is killed) three days later and Briggs scatters his ashes
- Briggs secures the dossier they jointly created
- During a dream, he has a breakthrough- he awakes with the awareness of how to proceed, making sense of what he learned during his abduction: he realizes that his new "control"/informed ally will be Cooper.
- He prepares his LPA mayday protocols when he learns Cooper is missing at Glastonbury- but stops when he learns Cooper is back, planning to share all he knows at LPA
- March 28, 1989 when Cooper recovers, they meet but Briggs knows something is wrong, that he misinterpreted his dream, and he proceeds with said protocols.


In FWWM

- the ring is missing from Teresa's body.
- the ring is found on the mound of dirt under the Chalfont's trailer by Desmond, who disappears
- convenience store "with this ring I thee wed"
- Mrs. Tremond gives Laura the photo, Laura dreams she enters it and sees MFAP and the ornate table with the ring
- In her Tremond photo-induced/Annie/ dream, MFAP takes the ring from the ornate table and shows it to her
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring and she 'wakes up' in her dream with the ring, but it's gone when she truly wakes up
- Laura flashes back to Teresa with the ring and MFAP offering her the same ring
- Mike brandishes the ring to Laura and Leland at the intersection and says "it's your father"
- Mike delivers the ring to the train car and Laura puts it on before BOB kills her

In TMP
* In the script "JEFFRIES (cries) the ring... the ring" - shot of the ring on the table (intercut with Laura's strange smile)
- After Mike at the intersection, Leland flashes back to Teresa - we see that she wears the ring at the canceled date/blackmail set up with Ronette and Laura
- the ornate table appears again, with no ring. MFAP says: "Is it future or is it past?" Cooper notices there is no ring, MFAP says someone else has it now.
*in the script, Cooper says that would indicate it's the future, and MFAP says "The later events have never been kept a secret.*
- Cooper is concerned for Annie, asks where he is and how he can leave. MFAP says "You are here. Now there is no place left to go but home"
- Annie in the hospital bed is in a trance-state talking, as in Laura's dream. The nurse steals the ring from Annie.

In Return
- Briggs died (? as his prints have shown up 16 times in the 25 years since Cooper left Twin Peaks) in a fire at LPA
- Margaret tells Hawk something is missing and it has to do with his heritage, Hawk goes to Glastonbury
- Dougie Jones, a Las Vegas area resident, wears the ring, enters the Lodge when Cooper exits ("is tricked")
- Mike asks "Is it future or is it past?"
- Mike returns the ring to the ornate table.


madeleineferguson wrote:
In the video preview for TSHOTP, the dossier is mailed to Tamara Preston at a Twin Peaks address, from Gordon Cole in Philadelphia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kinf5ApBjmg


Agent TP will soon be entering the town of TP !
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:34 am

I wonder if the information Albert sent to Jeffries about Cooper is the part of the dossier we haven't seen yet. I think this is the part that Gordon mentions in the first letter to Tammy- the "document highlighting previous processing of the dossier by Bureau personnel" we're going to see published at the series end. Who else processed? Sam? Albert?
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:25 pm

sylvia_north wrote:I wonder if the information Albert sent to Jeffries about Cooper is the part of the dossier we haven't seen yet. I think this is the part that Gordon mentions in the first letter to Tammy- the "document highlighting previous processing of the dossier by Bureau personnel" we're going to see published at the series end. Who else processed? Sam? Albert?


Per TSH, Sam retired due to alcoholism following the events of FWWM. Of course, there's been some implication that Jeffries and Coop remained on active duty long after disappearing, so who knows!
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Re: Connections to TSHOTP (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:49 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:I wonder if the information Albert sent to Jeffries about Cooper is the part of the dossier we haven't seen yet. I think this is the part that Gordon mentions in the first letter to Tammy- the "document highlighting previous processing of the dossier by Bureau personnel" we're going to see published at the series end. Who else processed? Sam? Albert?


Per TSH, Sam retired due to alcoholism following the events of FWWM. Of course, there's been some implication that Jeffries and Coop remained on active duty long after disappearing, so who knows!


1. That's an inaccuracy if you compare his presence in TMP, doing just fine when Cooper visits him after Desmond disappears, and curious about the Blue Rose meaning. Preston can find no further info on him returning to work, which proves nothing either way- AND his name appears on the mystery list with Desmond, Jeffries, Cole and Cooper- all who have pertinent info about them conspicuously missing. Why is Albert hiding things about Jeffries from Cole?

2. Remember they said that about Merryweather Lewis, too, possible Freemason along with Clark, confirmed Freemason, but much evidence points to a sound mind, to paint him as suicidal- when he was defnitely murdered. "Two sharply divergent narratives emerge from this period: either Lewis began a steep decent into alcoholism and incipient madness or he became the target of an effective plot by powerful enemies..."

3. The headless John Doe could be Stanley, or Desmond, or Briggs, or anyone MIA, if it's the same kind of "Illuminati/MJ12" style coverup. After all, Lewis died in 1809 but his body was examined... "remarkably well-preserved" in 1848. p 34
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