S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

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Jasper
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:40 pm

My personal feeling is that there would be more Twin Peaks if Showtime indicated an interest in more Twin Peaks. As for whether or not that could happen, I have no idea whatsoever.

During any writing process, especially an extremely long, complex process such as the one that resulted in The Return, there will be many ideas which end up sidelined because there simply isn't time within what becomes the dominant narrative. In this case, that includes entire characters/actors. I suspect that Frost and Lynch already have a number of threads they'd like to follow if Twin Peaks had another season, and maybe they even have the rough idea of a primary narrative they'd like to explore. It's hard to say, but we may end up at the end of The Return without having seen (or in some cases without having even heard mention of) Harry S. Truman, Catherine Martell, Annie, Josie, Hank Jennings, Donna Hayward, Chester Desmond, or Sam Stanley, among others (like Lil!). So I don't doubt that there would be a great deal to explore, and I don't doubt that there are ideas. Because the cast has already been gathered for The Return, and because sets have been built and renovations made, I think that it would be a considerably shorter process than the work involved in creating a new 25-years-later world for Twin Peaks, where updated situations need to be created for all of its characters after a quarter century, and new, younger characters (and a lot of others) need to be created and integrated into the narrative.

Finally, there was the issue about the temporary freeze on the project when Lynch thought he wasn't getting what he needed. This was very troubling, but it ended up with us getting double the number of "parts", so it was probably worth it. Could such a delay happen again? Yes, but I'd expect the process would now be smoother owing to a greater understanding between the key players following the first fiasco.

So, I wanted to have a quick look what the most important players (on the creative side) had to say about the possibility of another installment after this one.

Mark Frost

This one will be a bit thin. When the new Twin Peaks was first announced, Mark Frost was doing most of the heavy lifting in terms of interviews. In one of the first two or three interviews that came out Frost was asked whether this would be a one time thing, or if it might continue beyond the one season. To the best of my recollection he responded that they hadn’t ruled out doing more.

I don’t have a link for the particular interview and I don’t know where it was published. It would be great if someone else happened to remember.

The rest of this stuff is very recent.

Kyle MacLachlan

Associated Press
Thursday, May 18, 2017
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-after-d/

When asked if the revival could give us even more than these 18 parts, Kyle said he thought chances were good. “Whether David and Mark feel compelled to write them, I don’t know. But I think he has more stories.”

David Lynch

Rolling Stone
May 17, 2017
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/features ... ve-w482337

Do you see yourself making features for television now?
No. I don't know what will happen next, but this is an 18-hour film in my mind. And I love the idea of a continuing story. A feature is over in two-and-a-half, three hours. The stories that you tell on cable can go on and on and on. It's really beautiful.

Will there be more Twin Peaks after this?
I have no idea. It depends on how it goes over. You're going to have to wait and see.
___________

USA Today
May 17, 2017
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/ ... 101774630/

Could there be more episodes? "You never say never."

For now, he's keeping busy with another creative project: "I'm building a table."
___________

The Daily Beast
May 22, 2017
http://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the ... avid-lynch

Lynch will co-write and direct all 18 episodes of Twin Peaks’ new season but won’t disclose whether or not his contract extends beyond the one season.

“We’ll see how it goes in the world. That’s what we’ve got to see,” utters Lynch. “All I can say, Marlow, is that I love the world of Twin Peaks and the people in it, so it would not be a hardship. But like I said, we’ll have to see what the people think.”
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:53 pm

Jasper wrote:It's hard to say, but we may end up at the end of The Return without having seen (or in some cases without having even heard mention of) Harry S. Truman, Catherine Martell, Annie, Josie, Hank Jennings, Donna Hayward, Chester Desmond, or Sam Stanley, among others (like Lil!).


Spoiler from TSHoTP:

Spoiler:
Hank was shivved in prison circa 1992 and died.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby PeteMartell » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:11 pm

I think 5 seasons would be a nice amount of material. Why not? It seems like the return is a smashing success so far and if I were a member of the cast or crew I would be aching to continue working with such a fantastic team to weave such a magical web. I mean, if game of thrones is on its 7th season, then certainly twin peaks can extend its imagination into a productive and wonderful future. And if showtime doesn't want to support it, then I'm sure a half dozen other studios would scramble to be involved. Worst case scenario, they make a few new independent films with private funding. I just feel like this twin peaks return could be the tip of the iceberg. I'm not worried about it all being wrapped up in some neat package at the end of this season.

The really interesting thing, for me, is the idea of "late period" work from artists. When you listen to Beethoven's late string quartets or read Joyce's Finnegan's Wake, you get this sense of an artist in the fullest expression of their weirdness and their childlike joy and sense of wonder. Why not allow this to continue for as long as the Lynch/Frost collaboration possibly can?
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Jasper
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:46 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Spoiler from TSHoTP:


Thanks. I was about 2/3rds of the way through when I got distracted by other things.

PeteMartell wrote:It seems like the return is a smashing success so far and if I were a member of the cast or crew I would be aching to continue working with such a fantastic team to weave such a magical web.


It seems to have done very well in the subscription department, but its live numbers are really not very good. There are so many factors to consider, and no way to know what the executives are saying in private, that it makes it very difficult to guess what Showtime might do. It's been a hit with the fans (with a few exceptions), but that's far from the only factor to be considered.

PeteMartell wrote:I mean, if game of thrones is on its 7th season, then certainly twin peaks can extend its imagination into a productive and wonderful future.


I don't think there's any shortage of inspiration on the creative side, or Lynch wouldn't have made the remarks I quoted above. Game of Thrones is a huge financial success for HBO, and these are the sort of things we've got to consider when it comes to Twin Peaks and Showtime.

PeteMartell wrote:And if showtime doesn't want to support it, then I'm sure a half dozen other studios would scramble to be involved. Worst case scenario, they make a few new independent films with private funding.


I don't think they'll make independent films. Others might scramble to grab Twin Peaks, but we don't know the details of the contract with Showtime. They may not have the option of going elsewhere. In any case, I get the feeling that Lynch and Frost would really rather have more of a home at Showtime. I think we're probably ultimately relying on Showtime here, and I feel like their thinking on the subject is currently unknowable.

Like I said before, I feel like if Showtime asks for more Twin Peaks, there will be more Twin Peaks. If Showtime doesn't ask for more, I think it's very likely that that would be the end of it.

To the people out there who are just pirating The Return, do the right thing, support Twin Peaks and sign up for Showtime. I didn't want to do it, but it felt good supporting this project.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Rudagger » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 am

Jasper wrote:To the people out there who are just pirating The Return, do the right thing, support Twin Peaks and sign up for Showtime. I didn't want to do it, but it felt good supporting this project.



Especially stateside viewers. That's what Showtime would be most concerned about and have the most visible effect on their ratings (though, if Showtime uses Nielson ratings, of which I'm unsure, then you're probably only making an effect on ratings if you're a Nielson family or perhaps by using their streaming service, where they can directly log it .. but, I don't know much about how ratings systems work to be honest!). International ratings are important (as they can negotiate better deals for distribution when a show is in demand), but, it's ultimately tertiary to direct signups for Showtime proper and their ratings.
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counterpaul
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:23 am

Jasper wrote:I don't think there's any shortage of inspiration on the creative side, or Lynch wouldn't have made the remarks I quoted above.


I honestly don't think Lynch is thinking about another season at all yet--he's just finished cutting an 18-hour film! And, in fact, still finishing up final deliverables for some of the parts. He's said, I believe in the same interview in which he goes on at length about his new table, that he isn't thinking about any other film projects just yet. Which is totally understandable!

Now, that doesn't mean that he and Frost haven't informally kicked around additional ideas, or (as you mentioned) that there wasn't stuff that they wrote and cut out for one reason or another, but still really like. That is not the same, though, as a seed for a whole new season.

I'm not arguing that there won't be any more Twin Peaks (unless The Return ends on some totally emphatic closing note, I certainly hope there is!), but I really think that in interviews DKL is simply keeping things non-committal because he regrets saying that a 3rd season would "never happen" in the past. He doesn't want to make that mistake again, and he loves Twin Peaks, so he's keeping the door open.

As he's said over and over again, it's all about the idea. If he and Mark come up with an idea that DKL falls in love with, and they can get Showtime's support, it will happen. But I do get the definite impression that Lynch is not interested in turning Twin Peaks back into the machine it was on ABC. I seriously, seriously doubt that we'll get any kind of regularly scheduled seasons. IF it happens again, it will happen the way it did this time--they'll take whatever time they need to write it all, then DKL will shoot it as another giant movie, and it will be broken up into however many parts are necessary to tell the whole story.

Like I said before, I feel like if Showtime asks for more Twin Peaks, there will be more Twin Peaks. If Showtime doesn't ask for more, I think it's very likely that that would be the end of it.


If Showtime won't bankroll more, then that probably will be it. If they do want another season, however, they may very well not get it, or at least they may have to wait a good long while for it. At least I fervently hope that's the way Lynch and Frost will approach any future TP projects. They really don't have to do a damn thing they don't want to at this point (certainly Lynch doesn't), which is a great position to be in.

To the people out there who are just pirating The Return, do the right thing, support Twin Peaks and sign up for Showtime. I didn't want to do it, but it felt good supporting this project.


I'm right there with you on this one! I'm paying for TV for the first time in a good 10 years, and I let Showtime know I've ordered their service specifically because of the opportunity they gave David Lynch to produce this project exactly the way he wanted to. I believe it's worth supporting both because it's Twin Peaks (duh!) and for the precedent it hopefully sets. I want to see more great filmmakers get opportunities like this, and I want to see Lynch making more projects (Twin Peaks-related or not) with the funding he needs and the creative control he demands.

If this model proves financially viable for Showtime, it could be a very good thing for a lot of talented artists. Well worth $10.99 a month!
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:18 am

Hey, Jasper, a GREAT post and thank you for all the work digging up the most recent quotes regarding the post-S3 continuation from some of the key players. I agree with your general thoughts about the subject. I think there've been plenty of hints that they're not ruling it out, so the theory of these 18 parts being a "swan song" for the Twin Peaks universe and its makers should be put to rest; they may very well end up being, who knows, but from the statements we've heard so far, it's clear Lynch, at least, didn't irreversibly conceive them as such.

As for Mark Frost's statements, they are indeed a bit dated, since they stem from the flurry of interviews he did just after the announcement of the revival, but I think they jibe outstandingly with what MacLachlan and especially Lynch are saying now. Anyhow, here they are:

From https://www.buzzfeed.com/jacelacob/twin ... gf37lJRgYM about the "finality" of the new series:

Is this limited series meant to offer a sense of finality at the end, or is it another prism through which you can view the series as a whole?

MF: I'd hate to prejudge for people what their perceptions should be, or even to direct them. I always like, as you know, the work to speak for itself. It's too early really to answer this question, I guess is a long-winded way of saying that. We'll let people tell us what they think, and how they feel, and we'll go from there.


From http://tvline.com/2014/10/06/twin-peaks ... -spoilers/ directly about the possibility of further return:

If it’s a success, could there be more?

MF: We’ve learned never to say never. Anything is a possibility.


From http://deadline.com/2014/10/twin-peaks- ... ew-846363/ again directly about continuing beyond S3:

Is the limited series definitely the end of the Twin Peaks franchise or you would be open for more?

MF: That’s sort of what we thought the last time, and look what happened. I wouldn’t think it will take us 25 years to decide the next time around — I hope it wouldn’t because it would be a lot harder to do the work then — but I think anything’s possible to be honest, given that this is happening.


So there you have it. I would love to hear someone from Showtime elaborate on this, as they've been keeping silent on the subject so far, but I'm guessing they won't say anything until The Return finishes its airing. They're focusing on promoting what they have in the can at the moment, as it should be.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:43 am

Agent Earle wrote:So there you have it. I would love to hear someone from Showtime elaborate on this, as they've been keeping silent on the subject so far, but I'm guessing they won't say anything until The Return finishes its airing. They're focusing on promoting what they have in the can at the moment, as it should be.


I'd bet money that we won't be hearing anything from Showtime about a "renewal."

Lynch/Frost's arrangement with Showtime for this series has been quite unconventional and Lynch and Frost (let's be honest, especially Lynch) are not your average show-runners. It would be pretty embarrassing for Showtime to publicly announce that they're renewing Twin Peaks for another season only for Lynch to later say that they didn't have any ideas for it that he's fallen in love with.

I guess Showtime could take a public stance similar to HBO's with "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and FX's with "Louie"--we'd welcome another season if and when the creators decide they want to make it, but we have no idea when or whether it will happen.

That would be awesome, actually. Best case scenario.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:57 am

Makes sense (what you're saying about Showtime). In any case, it'd be bad form for them to speculate about a continuation before a project as tough and unconventional as this one has been is even halfway through its airing. There'll be plenty of time for champagne and confetti afterwards.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:06 am

Agent Earle, thanks for providing those Frost quotes. I'd forgotten that he'd said multiple things on the subject back then during that exciting flurry of interviews. Now we've got a primo compendium of quotes on the subject in this thread. It may be a little off-topic, but it had to be done, and, well, this is where it happened.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:01 am

You could create things 'in the world of Twin Peaks' without necessarily committing to lengthy full seasons. I'd pay to watch Big Ed fix machinery for a couple of hours. Or, y know 'Andy: Small Town, Big Heart'. You could have all kinds of fun.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:09 pm

So I mean, we're honestly thinking Lynch and Frost are ready to commit another half-decade of their lives to more Twin Peaks? I just think people are way underestimating how much immense effort went into this. Even putting aside Lynch's age, it's still quite rare for a single director to create an entire season of television themselves and Lynch has repeatedly indicated that he would never hand off Twin Peaks to other directors again (even saying he wishes he hadn't in 1990-91). Let alone on the scope this series seems to be taking.

Furthermore, he repeatedly stresses that Twin Peaks: The Return is one long movie. That doesn't indicate that he sees it as just one chapter in a story stretching out onto the horizon, although that possibility exists. I know people want more Twin Peaks (I'm much more ambivalent about that, though admittedly as The Return goes on I'm finding myself hungering for more and wishing it wouldn't stop at 18). But the way Lynch wants to do TV means that for him to do more Twin Peaks he might be pretty much committing the rest of his entire life to just doing that and not being able to focus as much attention on any other project. Much as he loves this world, it seems unlikely he'd make it his sole priority.

If people wanna hope, I guess I shouldn't try to take that away from them, but I'd just say best not to put all eggs in that basket. I've been wrong before, so we'll see.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:12 pm

I suspect if the show were to come back for a victory lap it'd be a much less massive affair - 8-13 episodes tops, a less sweeping epic story. I think that would all be agreed upon upfront (obviously) and that it would have a tight timetable and budget that would be different from the current project. I don't think it would take another 5+ years of work. Once you have a new paradigm you can work within it. They wouldn't be operating the way they have here, having to reinvent everything 25 years later from the ground up.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:14 pm

Still making my way through the thread (that last was just written after reading a few direct responses, didn't realize there was a whole other page).

However, I should add that I don't think we're going to end The Return with a Cooper all jazzed up and ready to go on more cases. I think his end, one way or the other, will feel final. Just my hunch. Lynch did Twin Peaks without Cooper once, but that was a film focused on the other central figure of the town.
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Re: S3: Make Your Peace Now with the Ending You Dread (SPOILERS)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:16 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I suspect if the show were to come back for a victory lap it'd be a much less massive affair - 8-13 episodes tops, a less sweeping epic story. I think that would all be agreed upon upfront (obviously) and that it would have a tight timetable and budget that would be different from the current project. I don't think it would take another 5+ years of work. Once you have a new paradigm you can work within it. They wouldn't be operating the way they have here, having to reinvent everything 25 years later from the ground up.


Which would kinda feel like a bummer and an anticlimax to me, tbqh. I'd much rather see Twin Peaks go out with a bang and then Lynch and Frost move on to other projects, either separate or together.

I guess I'm just a movie guy. I like things to have endings - the possibility of something, like many or probably most TV shows do, just petering out and eventually closing with a whimper when the creators die or lose inspiration (or worse, officially continuing under different ownership who slowly dilute the original creators' vision over time) is much more ominous to me than just not having more after a certain, satisfying, conclusion.

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