The Random Season 3 Thread

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yaxomoxay
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:41 am

Johnsusername wrote:This is my first post on here in a while - probably since I finished the Return last year. In fact, I haven't consumed anything TP -related since i finished The Return.

Let me say first up that I LOVED The Return - probably even more than the original series, and close to how much I love FWWM/Missing Pieces.

But... watching The Return really took it out of me. Beforehand, i'd RE-watch the original series, rewatch FWWM, listen to podcasts, listen to the music not just from the series and FWWM but also other Lynch stuff and TP-related music like Chrysta Bell. I devoured Twin Peaks related media for many many years, and it never grew old on me.

Thing is I can't put my finger on it - it's not like The Return ruined TP for me. If anything it was the opposite - but for so many years having the same body (or bodies) of work, then suddenly there were 18 new episodes and all sorts happening and crazy theories I think I found it overwhelming. Even scanning through the forum now - so many theories and ideas about a million things - I guess you can think about these things too much.

I watched and then rewatched each episode of The Return - first time on TV, second time on laptop with headphones. The only time i didn't do this was for episodes 17 and 18. I think I was shellshocked (in a good way) by the ending for a long time. And since then I haven't gone back to TP at all.

I haven't really got a point to all this, except maybe did this happen to anyone else? I guess in a way it's having too much of a good thing. One cherry pie would be delicious! Two cherry pies would be nice, but maybe a little sickening. But 18 cherry pies?! Man, too much!

All that said - my wife and kids are away for a week next month and i'm seriously considering watch the FWWM extended cut, and then The Return. Still undecided. I can watch it with the lights off, and loud. Very loud.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post, but I have nowhere else to put it and it's something I've been chewing over for a while!


It’s pretty normal I think. I go in phases, depending on what else is going on in my life. I keep thinking about TP, don’t get me wrong. I am often reminded of it by my coffee mugs, or by my Cooper Pop figure, or by a random TP song on Apple Music but I can’t just watch, re-watch, and theorize 24 hours a day. TP is a very demanding piece of artistic work. Also, doing the 18-hour marathon really made my brain explode.
I can tell you this: TP, both original and the return, changed me quite a lot as a person.

I also haven’t read the Final Dossier yet. I am waiting for May 21st to re-watch it.


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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:45 am

Soolsma wrote:Haha, Mr. R, don't worry, that's what the random thread is for.

It does bring up an interesting question. Since Lynch has called television ''the new art house''. It makes one wonder which shows he did enjoy in this golden age of television.


I think Lynch is right. Most movies nowadays are somewhat non original, mostly superhero movies or remakes or dragged on continuation of previous works (Star Wars, anyone?).
Once in a while you might get an interesting movie. I barely go to the theatre anymore (I am waiting for Moviepass and this might change).

I think that TV series have a huge advantage over movies: length. Since they can span 10 hours or more they have time to develop the characters, create complex plots, etc. while movies have to make a boatload of money with just a couple of hours available.
Just consider: The Crown, Mindhunter, Manhunt (Unabomber), Downton Abbey, among many others... Mindhunter could’ve never been made into a movie, its pace is even slower than TP:TR, yet it’s an amazing series.


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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:28 am

Hmmm, I'm sure he rather meant that TV has golden opportunities nowadays, not that the world of feature film is something to seek refuge from. As for this divide between mainstream media and art, it was always there.
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:12 am

Soolsma wrote:Hmmm, I'm sure he rather meant that TV has golden opportunities nowadays, not that the world of feature film is something to seek refuge from. As for this divide between mainstream media and art, it was always there.


I simply think that with the popularity of HDTV and high quality audio systems television gained the needed technical quality to perform a big leap forward and become a direct competitor to cinema itself. TV always had some more flexibility, but with the added push of content streaming I think that TV production is going to hit movie production and distribution even more. Sooner or later people will be bored of all the superheroes movies (Black Panther - which I still have to watch so I am not commenting on its quality) was pushed using pseudo-political arguments which is a BAD sign in my opinion.


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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:34 pm

Soolsma wrote:Hmmm, I'm sure he rather meant that TV has golden opportunities nowadays, not that the world of feature film is something to seek refuge from. As for this divide between mainstream media and art, it was always there.


Right; it amazes me how often posters on this board seem to use the “nothing good is happening in cinema today, see: Marvel movies” argument. I’ll put aside the fact that I generally find the Marvel movies to be terrifically-crafted popcorn entertainment for what they are, and very smartly innovative in the way they have successfully adapted the comic book expanded universe concept to film in a way that has never been attempted before (with all the good and bad baggage that comes with such an approach to storytelling). The Marvel movies don’t even come close to reflecting what is going on overall in film today, and as a rule, the top-grossing mainstream successes and trends of any given era very rarely reflect the artistic highs of that period (see the top 25 of each decade at http://www.filmsite.org/boxoffice2.html). The fact that comic book movies dominate the mainstream landscape doesn’t mean that terrific movies like Upstream Color and Holy Motors and The Lobster and pretty much anything by the Coens and PT Anderson and Cronenberg aren’t being made, any more than Independence Day and Twister’s success means there wasn’t interesting stuff happening in the 1990s. All that being said, I do think that overall, what is happening in TV today is more exciting than in film, if only for the leaps and bounds the medium has taken over the past decade and a half, the possibilities of long-form storytelling which are being exploited and explored, and the mainstream success that some very interesting works have found.
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The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:14 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Soolsma wrote:Hmmm, I'm sure he rather meant that TV has golden opportunities nowadays, not that the world of feature film is something to seek refuge from. As for this divide between mainstream media and art, it was always there.


Right; it amazes me how often posters on this board seem to use the “nothing good is happening in cinema today, see: Marvel movies” argument. I’ll put aside the fact that I generally find the Marvel movies to be terrifically-crafted popcorn entertainment for what they are, and very smartly innovative in the way they have successfully adapted the comic book expanded universe concept to film in a way that has never been attempted before (with all the good and bad baggage that comes with such an approach to storytelling). The Marvel movies don’t even come close to reflecting what is going on overall in film today, and as a rule, the top-grossing mainstream successes and trends of any given era very rarely reflect the artistic highs of that period (see the top 25 of each decade at http://www.filmsite.org/boxoffice2.html). The fact that comic book movies dominate the mainstream landscape doesn’t mean that terrific movies like Upstream Color and Holy Motors and The Lobster and pretty much anything by the Coens and PT Anderson and Cronenberg aren’t being made, any more than Independence Day and Twister’s success means there wasn’t interesting stuff happening in the 1990s. All that being said, I do think that overall, what is happening in TV today is more exciting than in film, if only for the leaps and bounds the medium has taken over the past decade and a half, the possibilities of long-form storytelling which are being exploited and explored, and the mainstream success that some very interesting works have found.


I don’t have anything against Marvel movies, I do watch them for their entertainment value (at times I do want to see exploding buildings and crazy stuff) although after a while they get boring. The truth is that they are a good example of what is happening in cinema. Yes, we always had entertaining movies such as ID4, Twister, or even Jurassic Park (which I do dig quite a bit despite its age), and there are GOOD movies that are made today, but the landscape is somewhat depressing.

Let’s take the highest domestic grosses in 1995 as a random example:
Toy Story (Original)
Batman Forever (Sequel, Superhero)
Apollo XIII (Original, True Story)
Pocahontas (Original)
Ace Ventura (Sequel)
Goldeneye (Sequel)
Jumanji (Original)
Casper (Original)
Seven (Original)
Die Hard 3 (Sequel)
Crimson Tide (Original)
Waterworld (Original)
Dangerous Minds (Original)
Mr Holland’s Opus (Original)
While You were Sleeping (Original).
(Note: Bravehart is 18th)

And now let’s take 2017:
Star Wars (Sequel)
Beauty and The Beast (Remake)
Wonder Woman (Original, Superhero)
Jumanji (Remake)
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (Sequel, Superhero)
Spiderman (Sequel/Prequel, Remake, Superhero)
It (Remake)
Thor (Sequel, Superhero)
Despicable Me 3 (Sequel)
Logan (Original, Superhero)
The Fate of the Furious (Sequel)
Coco (Original)
Dunkirk (Original, True Story)
Get Out (Original)
The Lego Batman Movie (Sequel, won’t call it Superhero )

In other words.
Originals in 1995: 11
Originals in 2017: 5 (and I call “Logan” original even if it’s related to other movies)

Sequels in 1995: 4
Sequels in 2017: 6

Remakes in 1995: 0
Remakes in 2017: 4

Superhero Movies in 1995: 1
Superhero Movies in 2017: 5

This to me shows (a minute part of) the problem.


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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:54 pm

I certainly won’t deny that there is a glut of sequels and remakes, maybe more than many previous eras; but the fact that something is a sequel or remake doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad any more than an original film is inherently good. TP:TR proves that sequels can be wildly original, and just taking the top 15 for the two years you randomly chose to compare, I think 2017 has more films overall that I enjoyed than 1995 (albeit by a slim margin — I don’t think either list is terribly impressive overall). In any event, the sequel/remake issue is still symptomatic of mainstream blockbuster Hollywood, not the outsider/indie world where much more interesting stuff is always happening.

I do appreciate that you chose two years with Jumanji films. ;)
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:00 pm

Image

^- Number of films produced per year, according to IMDB. So yeah, there's bound to be a whole lot more high-grossing trash in a top list of any given recent year. However the production of art and international film is also flourishing. As technology and better economies allow it, more and more (developing) countries have the chance to grow a bigger film culture and distribute their films more. Hell, I think most movies I've sincerely enjoyed in recent years were international films, which due to public demand being so focused on Hollywood, could never have made it onto any highest grossing list.

(btw I love the new star wars :lol: for entertainment purposes that is.)
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Johnsusername » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:15 am

yaxomoxay wrote:It’s pretty normal I think. I go in phases, depending on what else is going on in my life. I keep thinking about TP, don’t get me wrong. I am often reminded of it by my coffee mugs, or by my Cooper Pop figure, or by a random TP song on Apple Music but I can’t just watch, re-watch, and theorize 24 hours a day. TP is a very demanding piece of artistic work. Also, doing the 18-hour marathon really made my brain explode.
I can tell you this: TP, both original and the return, changed me quite a lot as a person.

I also haven’t read the Final Dossier yet. I am waiting for May 21st to re-watch it.
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Well I've been looking through the forum the last two days, and I've had some of the music on from The Return (I can't get enough of Wild West by Lissie even though it's probably the least sounding Twin Peaks song ever). So I think i'm ready to plunge back into a re-watch of The Return. I'm just wondering where i've got a spare 4 straight hours to watch the FWWM extended cut!
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:36 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I certainly won’t deny that there is a glut of sequels and remakes, maybe more than many previous eras; but the fact that something is a sequel or remake doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad any more than an original film is inherently good. TP:TR proves that sequels can be wildly original, and just taking the top 15 for the two years you randomly chose to compare, I think 2017 has more films overall that I enjoyed than 1995 (albeit by a slim margin — I don’t think either list is terribly impressive overall). In any event, the sequel/remake issue is still symptomatic of mainstream blockbuster Hollywood, not the outsider/indie world where much more interesting stuff is always happening.

I do appreciate that you chose two years with Jumanji films. ;)


I don’t mean to imply that movies today suck, and/or that sequels are necessarily bad. Even Rocky Balboa (= Rocky VI) was quite good, and you rightfully pointed out TP:TR.
However, I can’t fail to notice that “hollywood” is becoming a tired version of itself, which in the long run might spell trouble for movie making and theaters in general. That’s why in my first post I mentioned flexibility. Let’s put it this way... LOTR was probably the last of its kind. After GOT, TWD, and even TP:TR and all the series on Netflix I see that type of project moving towards TV audience.


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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:48 pm

I for one really liked TD and BB and C as well. They were all in DKL kinds of moods or something.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:38 am

C? I'm having trouble with one letter abbreviations
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:18 am

Sorry, normally I refrain from such over-mystifications, but it was an impulsive reaction to certain contributions ... Anyway, here is the explanation for C ...

Image
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:57 pm

Ah yes! That other profound series that got cancelled due to commercialism and TV. LOVE IT. but wouldn't be hoping for a reboot or anything like that................. . .. . .
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:09 pm

Soolsma wrote:Ah yes! That other profound series that got cancelled due to commercialism and TV. LOVE IT. but wouldn't be hoping for a reboot or anything like that................. . .. . .


It’s surprising to me that that show doesn’t have a more vocal cult following. It’s not talked about nearly as much as it should be. In terms of a revival, even putting aside the commercial realities, it seems that Nick Stahl and MJA are sadly both unemployable as of now. I think the odds of the show returning to the air are slim, but I don’t know why Knauf hasn’t done a novel or comic book to finish his story. He does regularly write for comics. Did you guys see the massive infodump he did online a few years back? There were a bunch of long production documents he put up explaining a lot of background about the mythology, and he has also spoken about where the storyline would have ultimately gone in some detail. He seems to have given up on actually telling the story; again, not sure why he doesn’t do it in some other cheaper medium. I’m sure there would be interest.

EDIT: Was inspired to reread the AV Club interview with him and he says it’s entirely because HBO won’t play ball (he even had a deal in place with Marvel, but HBO wouldn’t lease the rights)...what a shame.

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