Theory: Lucy is not a blithering idiot. ...She's giving us clues about the duality that permeates the show. (SPOILERS)

[Putontheglasses]

Well I for one thought the Andy floor board scene was incredibly funny especially because it set Albert up for an amazing entrance and punch line. Comedy is a subtle beast but I see the Lucy chair gag as completely juvenile compared to the Andy scene. Plus Andy was an accident which is a big difference, and it moved the plot forward. It didn't feel like a pointless scene out of a Warner Brothers cartoon to me at all.

I didn't mind either scene. My point is they're all of a piece with the kind of wacky slapstick and very broad humor Lynch sometimes goes for, without much irony.

You don't think it's ironic that bumbling Andy uncovers an important piece of evidence via a "happy accident" where he's initially ridiculed by Albert? It's potentially meaningful at a deeper level too as it's in line with the dead dog farm stuff and Cooper's Tibetan method. In other words, was it really a random accident? Lots of meaning and irony in the scene to me. It also serves as a vehicle to get to know about Albert's attitude. Far from pointless slapstick.

Now Pinkel getting his nose bit by the pine weasel is just pointless, sophomoric, cheesy, B-movie slapstick to me (along the lines of Lucy falling out of her chair), but I doubt Lynch would have been on board with that. It was likely that kind of nonsense that made him hate Season 2 so much. Maybe I'm wrong...I'm certainly no Lynch expert.

[N. Needleman]

You don't think it's ironic that bumbling Andy uncovers an important piece of evidence via a "happy accident" where he's initially ridiculed by Albert? It's potentially meaningful at a deeper level too as it's in line with the dead dog farm stuff and Cooper's Tibetan method. In other words, was it really a random accident? Lots of meaning and irony in the scene to me. It also serves as a vehicle to get to know about Albert's attitude. Far from pointless slapstick.

I said Lynch often enjoys simply slapstick without irony. I didn't say every scene had none. As to the former, cases in point: Many other Andy/Lucy scenes he had a hand in in both the show and deleted material from FWWM.

[KnewItsPa]

Here is a picture of the signs in the TP Sherriff stations back room. Forgive the image quality, it is the best I could manage.
TPST-backroom signs.jpg

Nice shot. Going to say this is probably standard security procedure, rather than protecting Lucy.

However, wasn't the drug-dealer cop from the Bang-Bang Bar one of the cops hanging around the new-tech control centre? Also that FBI Agent Tammy Preston has to compare paper files of fingerprints, and use the default image software on a Mac, wheras local law enforcement have military-grade networked fingerprint search. Something odd going on there.

"It is in our house now" - perhaps reference to security-intel being compromised.

[Putontheglasses]

You don't think it's ironic that bumbling Andy uncovers an important piece of evidence via a "happy accident" where he's initially ridiculed by Albert? It's potentially meaningful at a deeper level too as it's in line with the dead dog farm stuff and Cooper's Tibetan method. In other words, was it really a random accident? Lots of meaning and irony in the scene to me. It also serves as a vehicle to get to know about Albert's attitude. Far from pointless slapstick.

I said Lynch often enjoys simply slapstick without irony. I didn't say every scene had none. As to the former, cases in point: Many other Andy/Lucy scenes he had a hand in in both the show and deleted material from FWWM.

My understanding was that you brought up the scene with Andy and the board in regard to my view of the Lucy chair gag because it was comparable. It sounds like we agree that it wasn't comparable. Was your point only that some people didn't think it was funny? I suppose I can see some people not thinking Andy hitting his head and stumbling was incredibly funny (although a large group of more intellectual types that I watched with in college all laughed out loud at this), but I have a hard time imagining many people not thinking that the Albert line "Another great moment in law enforcement history" wasn't witty or funny, which is integral to the gag.

Can you point to any scenes with Andy or Lucy from the original or theatrical release of FWWM that you would say is comparable? By comparable I mean, not ironic, not realistic, no apparent meaning, purpose, or significance, and in the same extreme slapstick 3 Stooges/cartoon style that most mature adults would not find funny? Basically you're saying that Lynch thinks the idea of Lucy falling out of her chair is funny, or that he hopes the audience will. I wouldn't think that a big Lynch fan would expect him to have such an unsophisticated, juvenile sense of humor.

I also thought that the thermostat bit was a gross exaggeration of the Lucy from the original, but the chair gag is more extreme so it's an easier point of reference to the difference between how Lynch is treating Andy and Lucy is S3 compared to the original.

[N. Needleman]

My understanding was that you brought up the scene with Andy and the board in regard to my view of the S3 Lucy gags because it was comparable.

Yep. I think it is, even though the Andy scene also served a specific plot purpose. It's another prime example of Lynch's often very broad sense of slapstick humor which he then draws out way longer than some people felt (then and now) was necessary.

Can you point to any scenes with Andy or Lucy from the original or theatrical release of FWWM that you would say is comparable?

I'm talking about the deleted material from the Missing Pieces, where Lucy is sure she is being stalked inside the police station by nothing at all and instead she and Andy end up scaring each other over nothing. IIRC it was some kind of intercom mishap. Not far off from here.

As for other examples - you have Andy being convinced being 'sterile' meant he was very clean, or spending a good chunk of a scene in Lynch's episode 9 struggling to get tape off his fingers while trying to pin up wanted posters in the diner. There's others, too. And the thermostat gag - Lucy's obsession with having everything just so in the office to the point of rambling about minutiae for long stretches - goes back to Lucy in the pilot with the phones in the office, which again got called back last week when she struggled to explain to Frank that his wife was there.

To me it's all of a piece with how Lynch has always treated those characters. He has great affection for them (and told Kimmy more than once that Lucy is not a 'ditz' but 'wants to make sure everything is just so', to the point of utter distraction - I think her confusion re: cellphones vs. how she used to manage the phones is a part of that), but also recognizes the various failings and foibles that he finds hilarious. Not everyone will find it that same way, but hey, that's okay.

[LateReg]

I'll explain a bit more about why we thought it was disingenuous. First, is actually Laura's theme, which was mentioned by Needleman as lending legitimacy. The lack of similar emotionally queued scene music in the rest of the series made it stand out like a sore thumb and seem over the top and melodramatic. Plus it seemed to be at full volume as well. It reminded me of the scene in The Truman Show where Truman meets his long lost father and Ed Harris says "cue the music!".

Second is the length of time Bobby stands there and the cuts to him, back to the picture, to the other's in the room not asking him what's wrong, and the length of the entire scene. Third is the fact that Bobby just stands there and cries while nobody reacts. It not only doesn't seem realistic for Bobby's character, but it's also not realistic for most people. Bobby and most people would tear up, maybe pause a second, and then leave the room, rather than just stand there and bawl in front of everyone. Plus, you would think someone would say "Hey, what's wrong Bobby?" or something. But then again, this is the TP where Dougie's wife and an entire office full of people just ignore the fact that Dougie (Cooper) is acting like he's had a stroke.

To us it was almost like a scene out of parody movies like Airplane, and nothing like the scene of Bobby getting emotional at Laura's funeral or anything like that. We didn't think that Lynch was being disdainful at this point, but we started to suspect something fishy was up with this scene, the treatment of Lucy and Andy, as well as the Wally Brando scene.

It wasn't until a subsequent viewing that we both felt pretty certain that Lynch was doing a lot of this uncomfortable stuff on purpose, and that it was just too extreme to be on accident. This is why we won't be surprised if Cooper is still not recovered for several more episodes. We think that Lynch is looking off the board, at a bigger game so to speak.

Thanks for fleshing that out again.

But again, I think we have a fundamentally different way of seeing this scene. The music seemed purposefully jolting, as if to awaken the town and the viewer, or as I said in an above post, a forceful demonstration of the sudden return of the repressed; the people around Bobby not reacting seems perfectly natural to me, as they would probably not quite know what to do when Bobby Briggs suddenly comes in and starts crying uncontrollably over a picture of a person nobody has thought of in many years. Hawk probably understands why but reacts stoically since the high school Bobby who knew Laura was a badboy playboy; the Truman present isn't Harry; Lucy and Andy acknowledge his pain - as well as the town's buried traumas - by holding hands. But it's been so long that nobody quite knows what to do in an awkward situation like that. And as I also said in an above post, in my understanding of Bobby Briggs, I think the crying fit perfectly suits his character, who spent his youth loving Laura without reciprocation, and who seemed to truly know she was in trouble way back when, and who himself has matured in the past 25 years. The photo awakens something in him.

All that said, I'm very curious. Having read your other posts in this thread, what exactly do you think Lynch is playing at as he is looking at a bigger game? What do you believe his goal is if this scene isn't genuine?

Well I was planning on writing up a full analysis at some point if the episodes continue to support my theory, but in a nuthshell I think he is using the viewer's familiarity and love for the characters and story, as well as the expectation that he will create something surreal but profound, as a means to create something that is effectively the doppelgänger of the original show.

I honestly think that if anyone else besides David Lynch made the equivalent tv show, and especially if it didn't have the Twin Peaks basis, people largely would not be so willing to have faith and receive it so warmly.

A lot of the professional critic reviews that are marked as positive on metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes, basically boil down to "I have no idea what's going on and it's not easy to watch, but it's David Lynch so I'm assuming it's deep, art, and will make sense in the end."

I think he's using his reputation and the fans' eagerness and love for the show as a base to create something deeply subversive.

Fans think they generally know what to expect from him based on previous work, and if I was him and this was my last hurrah, I would want to do something totally innovative. I think that the audience is ending up being part of the art.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While I agree that this almost does seem like a doppelganger of the original show, I still don't understand where you're coming from with the rest regarding the audience being part of the art. It seems like a pretty outlandish interpretation to me...but I also don't quite get it and look forward to reading the thread you devote to it in greater detail!

[Ragnell]

Here is a picture of the signs in the TP Sherriff stations back room. Forgive the image quality, it is the best I could manage.
TPST-backroom signs.jpg

Nice shot. Going to say this is probably standard security procedure, rather than protecting Lucy.

However, wasn't the drug-dealer cop from the Bang-Bang Bar one of the cops hanging around the new-tech control centre? Also that FBI Agent Tammy Preston has to compare paper files of fingerprints, and use the default image software on a Mac, wheras local law enforcement have military-grade networked fingerprint search. Something odd going on there.

"It is in our house now" - perhaps reference to security-intel being compromised.

I think Tammy having to visually catch the difference between the prints is because the computer program the law enforcement agencies use is limited. It must read DoppelCoop's prints the same as Cooper's, either through a fault in programming or due to an inability to cope with the supernatural effects of the Black Lodge. The doppelganger is treated in the world as the original would be, except for by human intuition, which relies on the spark of the divine in every person. Tammy's human, not a program, she can pierce the chicanery of the Black Lodge if she is sharp enough.

But then, the control of technology we've seen from DoppelCoop so far might indicate why there's people in Twin Peaks who insist on living low tech at times. Electricity and technology are like the owls, a way the spirits are traveling and watching. Lucy's alarm at the cell phone may not be an inability to grasp the concept of the phone, but a subconscious phobia of the Lodge. Cell phones are signals sent through the air, while traditional phone signals are limited to a wire she could cut if she wants.

But.. as long as we're discussing both Lucy and Andy... am I the only one who thinks Andy is a little more emotionally controlled than he used to be? The Dispatcher said he took the call about the kid at the school who OD'ed, but he didn't seem distressed about anything but Lucy's condition. Bobby seems to be the officer who has outbursts of grief now.