General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

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Jonah
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General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:37 am

I thought we needed a new thread for everyone here to discuss Season 3 rather than grouping all positive comments into each week's episode thread and all criticisms/disappointments into the Support Group thread.

So I thought it would be good to have a place for general discussion on the series as it progresses and I think everyone who posts here should be able to write their thoughts/opinions with full freedom - whether you love or like the new series, hate it, or are on the fence or mixed.

Not sure if this will take off. But I don't think it's a great idea to put all discussion into the above threads as it's leaving things feeling very unbalanced to put all positive comments about the overall series into the episode threads - and all disappointed comments into the support group - and also it will make the individual episode threads very bloated once the whole series has aired and we might want to refer back to those threads for thoughts pertaining to the episode itself (when they should really be about that particular episode - good and bad).

This might not take off, but worth a shot. Remember - All opinions are valid here!
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Hockey Mask
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Hockey Mask » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:41 am

Long live Wally Brando!

That ought to stir things up. :D
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Gabriel
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:47 am

Hockey Mask wrote:Long live Wally Brando!

That ought to stir things up. :D


'May the road rise to meet your tyres and the pavement not rise to meet your face!!'


Edited for autocorrect error!
Last edited by Gabriel on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jonah
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Jonah » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:02 pm

Hockey Mask wrote:Long live Wally Brando!

That ought to stir things up. :D


LOL. :D

There's so many threads now it's hard to keep track. I was going to discuss the upcoming episode titles here but then I saw there was a speculation thread!

I still think there should be a thread like this, though, for general discussion - a place where it doesn't necessarily have to be all pro (the episode threads), con (the support group thread), but a bit of everything. And I do think those individual episode threads are getting very bloated!

Maybe I'll rename this to the On the Fence thread! (But really, it should be for everyone. General discussion.)

Does anyone want to maybe list things they do and don't like about the series so far?
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Jonah
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Jonah » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:20 pm

I'll go first. I haven't rewatched it yet, so this is just off the top of my head, and I'm probably leaving out a lot of stuff on both the like and don't like lists.

Things I like about the new series:

Kyle McLachlan's performance - I think he's doing a great job straddling so many roles.

I like that Lynch and Frost are getting full creative control and a chance to do what they want and present their own vision for their creation (even if not everyone will like it or even if I don't always like it).

I like that most of the original cast is back.

I like how they are using the cast that has passed on and find the way they are incorporating these characters touching and moving.

I loved seeing Laura again, and especially Laura and Coop in the red room.

I liked seeing Giant and Cooper and was delighted with this opening scene as it reminded me of the opening to Season 2.

I loved seeing the pre-credits flashback to Cooper and Laura 25 years ago.

I like some of the effects that have a painting-esque feel to them, but I also can't decide if some of them are poorly rendered or meant to look this way.

I loved the opening to Episode 3.

I like Bad Coop and what Kyle is doing with it. The scene in the jail was wonderful.

I liked the scene with Albert and Coop at the end of Episode 4.

I liked seeing Denise again (though not sure I liked the scene itself).

I thought the mirror scene with a hint of Bob was very well done.

I loved seeing Diane.

Some of the Dougie stuff - but not all of it. Maybe some of the Janey-E stuff but could have lived without it.

I liked the key scene and where this might be going.

I liked seeing some of the old cast again, but feel they haven't been used properly.

Lots of other little things.



Things I don't like:

Most of the stuff in Vegas.

The gross-out scenes with the bodies and vomit.

The goons.

The hitman.

All the stuff that feels like "Mulholland Drive".

The pace. I'm fine with several slow scenes, but the overall pace of this is glacial.

The narrative structure - or editing. I find it all over the place, not at all like a movie or novel. Example: Diane's scene dropped into Episode 6 in the middle of nowhere, after being introduced in Episode 4, and not followed up on again.

How little Twin Peaks is being used. So far.

How little the original characters are being used. So far.

The cold, disconnected, almost emotionless feel. The new characters seem like little more than caricatures and the returning cast feel disconnected, little more than stock cameos. So far.

Some of the humour.

The sense that much of it feels dragging or pointless, even if it's not.

The lack of one firm character to really root for, with the exception of Dougie. So far.

How the Dougie stuff is being played out so slowly, but also how repetitive it has become. I feel it hit its highpoint in the casino in Episode 4 and, apart from maybe one scene with the coffee, has really been overplayed and stretched thin.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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OrsonWelles
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby OrsonWelles » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:41 pm

Well, about the narrative. I happened to read James Joyce's Ulysses a couple of months ago (Well, it took me from september until february to be honest). I'm not going to say Lynch intended or was inspired by this complex novel, but I'm starting to think that I don't find the episodes, pace or scenes all over the place might be because I read a novel that was so complex and random at times that I watch these new series in the same way. Not expecting to find meaning at first view, expecting parts that feel totally out of place or out of context. Now some might say that that I'm trying to make some of the issues with the new series better than they are, which is not the case. I think it's just comparable since after finishing Ulysses I thought it was an interesting, meaningful and incredibly creative work of art, while having quite a few passages that utterly frustrated me.
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Adolphus
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Adolphus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:01 pm

OrsonWelles wrote:Well, about the narrative. I happened to read James Joyce's Ulysses a couple of months ago (Well, it took me from september until february to be honest). I'm not going to say Lynch intended or was inspired by this complex novel, but I'm starting to think that I don't find the episodes, pace or scenes all over the place might be because I read a novel that was so complex and random at times that I watch these new series in the same way. Not expecting to find meaning at first view, expecting parts that feel totally out of place or out of context. Now some might say that that I'm trying to make some of the issues with the new series better than they are, which is not the case. I think it's just comparable since after finishing Ulysses I thought it was an interesting, meaningful and incredibly creative work of art, while having quite a few passages that utterly frustrated me.

That is an interesting comparison- the stylistic juxtapositions certainly recall the novel.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby RedThread » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:15 pm

Has anyone read Nochimson's "Lynch Swerves"? I believe the show keeps hinting at this whole "quantum superposition" thing, if I understand it correctly. We've got Cooper existing in two different places at once - "You are far away." A Mrs. Houseman complains about a skunk in her room that happens to be on the other side of the hotel. The insurance agent doesn't get that there are two Sheriff Trumans. Andy reports his findings to Hawk as if evidence could be missing and accounted for simultaneously. Lucy doesn't get cell phones and would sooner believe that Truman exists in two places at once. And most recently Red's magic trick positions a coin in two places at once. If anyone's read that book I'd love to hear your thoughts, because I haven't picked it up yet.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby baxter » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:48 pm

I read Lynch swerves, and for full disclosure I should mention that I am a physicist by trade so I had to forgive some abuses of scientific concepts.

I think that much of Lynch swerves is interesting, but they are very much her ideas and not Lynch's. Of course we'll never really know, but this seemed obvious from the snippets of interviews with Lynch, and the book had a strong urge to promote the ideas as fact rather than interpretation (including disparaging other readings of Lynch in an unnecessarily heavy-handed way). I also thought that trying to interpret the Straight Story within the same framework was madness.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:08 pm

I find myself liking the series more and more as it goes on, even though I initially hated it.

There is so much in here to be intrigued about. It feels like the most inventive, subversive television that's been made in a while, even if there is a lot to be frustrated and hate about it. Every episode effects me emotionally and is often exhausting. It almost seems like it wants to inspire boredom and hate, and some weird part of me admires that.

It's not as if there's no nostalgia to it. In fact all of the stuff with the old cast feels almost purely nostalgic, but it's a lot of fun.

I'm starting to enjoy all of the plot streams. I like the Las Vegas stuff, especially Robert Knepper and Jim Belushi. Looking forward to more of the casino plot.

Even though I'm enjoying analysing the relationships of the criminal underworld, my thoughts often stray to how ridiculous the entire premise of this show is at this point.

My favourite character so far was Loraine, and the fact she had a theme song was awesome, so I'm bummed she got killed off
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BigEd
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby BigEd » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:59 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:Long live Wally Brando!

That ought to stir things up. :D


'May the road rose to meet your tyres and the pavement not rise to meet your face!!'


"road rose?" do you mean "blue rose?" I'm confused.....
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Gabriel
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:42 pm

BigEd wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:Long live Wally Brando!

That ought to stir things up. :D


'May the road rose to meet your tyres and the pavement not rise to meet your face!!'


"road rose?" do you mean "blue rose?" I'm confused.....


Arsing autocorrect again! :(
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Rudagger
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Rudagger » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:28 am

I have to say, I'm loving the series, but there is one thing that's been nagging on me;

I'm not loving the Red Room stuff this season. Something about it just lacks the otherworldly power it had in the original series and Fire Walk With Me. Not sure if it's due to how distant and wide it's shot, which kind of makes the place feel more like an empty stage than an endless labyrinth. Or if it's just that only Mike being there causes it to feel a bit empty as though there's something missing.

Also, i think the fast and loose approach to some of the visuals have kind of made the work a bit less consistent than say FWWM. Like, I don't think we've gotten a "Convenience Store" scene that's really gotten under my skin visually and auditorially yet. So, I'm still hoping for some really disturbing supernatural imagery to come, I just don't think Lynch has topped the finale of the original show, or the Maddy murder yet.

Also, I'm hoping for a few more big musical moments where a Roadhouse song is actually employed in a scene. Those have always worked beautifully.

But yeah, overall loving it. Might be one of my favourite Lynch works, so far, I do wish it some of the visuals were a bit more consistent and polished though (I haven't seen Mulholland Drive in far too long, but I feel like it did a good job of never looking, well, cheap, in a way that some of the intentionally weak effects shots hurt the mise en scene in The Return)
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby laughingpinecone » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:40 am

About the Red Room: it's not backlit, is the thing. I imagine that many people here have read the riveting tale of poor Ron Garcia's struggles to light the place from beyond the curtains. I see is no such light in TPTR, and it drastically changes the mood. I imagine this could be part of the reason why it feels less magical to many people? It doesn't have that low-key impossible lighting anymore, and I think our brains registered it as weird even if we didn't realise why.

I wonder if it's intentional for esoteric reasons we cannot yet fathom, a tragic consequence of using richer, thicker fabric for the curtains, or something else entirely.
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Panapaok
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Panapaok » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:39 am

Yeah, I think the curtains are slightly different and also the digital photography provides a different look. I really don't have an issue, it's fine by me but it does look a bit different. Let's not forget though that the Red Room of Ep.2/International Pilot vs the Red Room of Ep.29/FWWM also looks very different. As for the mystique, I don't think it lost any. It's become more intriguing to me because they are exploring it more deeply. We knew that Coop was trapped in there, so it was obvious that plenty of time would be spent in it. They couldn't just do the same things with Ep.29, there should be some new stuff.
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