General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

[mtwentz]

Lol

I'm referring to an early episode with Bobby and Shelley driving, (the camera is not literally up anyone's skirt) I can remember an interview with one of them saying how Lynch was in the car with them, right at their feet filming. It's a cool low angled shot. But my point was more that the old series does everything to get you really close to characters. Where 'The Return' does everything in its power to distance the viewer from everyone. I know it's deliberate, but it crafts an experience on such a polar opposite to the original.

One is pure invitation and titlation-- the other is isolation and disgust.
Obviously I prefer the original

Are you convinced the distance and isolation will be there for the rest of the season? If we do get close to the characters later on, would you be open to it possibly being more meaningful because of the isolation and distance that's been established early on?

Sure.
Either way I'm going to watch it.
But I'd certainly enjoy it more with a restored Cooper and amped up liveliness

Cooper as we knew him is probably not coming back for several episodes, maybe not until the finale. I do think he'll gradually become more and more functional as each episode moves along, but it will take a while.

[Nikki Grace]

I on the other hand, like the Red Room much better this time. The old one needed some updating.

More importantly, what is going on in the Red Room in The Return is also more interesting to me. Episode 29 was great for its day, but a lot of it frankly felt like a last curtain call for characters like Leland, Laura, Maddy, Senor Droolcup. It was done in a fun way, but it still feels like filler in some spaces (at least up to the point until the doppelgangers come in).

In this new Twin Peaks, however, there is not a wasted moment in the Red Room.

Interesting to see how different everyone's opinions are. I'm glad you're liking it, but I think the best thing I can say about the new red room is that I guess it does suit the overall look of the new series. But I still think it's a major disappointment. And not just because overall I preferred the look and feel of the original series. Simply because I think the original red room was mysterious and otherworldly and this one does not give me those feelings at all.

The first time we see the red room is the original 25 years in the future (episode 2?), the floor there is covered with dust as if anything barely moved there in the preceding 25 years. The episode 29 has a very clean, pristine floor. This kind of detail simply shows what kind of superior thinking went into the original series. Compare that to what we seemingly have now, watching the paint dry.

Furthemore, something that bugged me too, is that Cooper and Philip Gerard move through the lodge now as if they were in a video game, their walk looked very cartoonish, for a moment it felt like watching Super Mario go for it. Compare that to how Cooper walked in episode 29.

I did notice it had a video game look and vibe to it - and yes, very much like an 80's video game or Super Mario - but didn't notice the walking specifically. Maybe that contributed subconsciously to my feeling on it though!

Really, more than anything, I hate how bright it is in there - and the new curtains.

The old series Red Room only seemed more otherworldly because it was visited so infrequently. I agree that the finale was curtain calls (pun intended) for it: there was nothing more to do with it, Lynch had used up every trick in the book to maximise its space and layout.

I also disagree that the new one looks more fake. The old Red Room was clearly, visibly a set. It was brilliant because it was uncanny, but you could tell where the seams where - at times you could almost even feel where the lights were (like when the MFAP dances and the light from the flash strobes is almost in shot).

The new one, with its digital sheen, is just what we needed. It also creates an unnerving, uncanny sensation because of the digitisation of it - it's hard to know where real starts and fake begins. It is definitely very 21st century, but at the same time to me feels like a natural progression and necessary.

[Panapaok]

The old series Red Room only seemed more otherworldly because it was visited so infrequently. I agree that the finale was curtain calls (pun intended) for it: there was nothing more to do with it, Lynch had used up every trick in the book to maximise its space and layout.

I also disagree that the new one looks more fake. The old Red Room was clearly, visibly a set. It was brilliant because it was uncanny, but you could tell where the seams where - at times you could almost even feel where the lights were (like when the MFAP dances and the light from the flash strobes is almost in shot).

The new one, with its digital sheen, is just what we needed. It also creates an unnerving, uncanny sensation because of the digitisation of it - it's hard to know where real starts and fake begins. It is definitely very 21st century, but at the same time to me feels like a natural progression and necessary.

Great post, fully agreed. The Red Room of the original series always felt like a set to me. Literally like a constrained place. That's not a bad thing per se but I really wanted it to feel more endless and terrifying and that's how I felt during part 2, with Cooper getting lost into this endless purgatory, with all the floor shifting, the mindbending imagery and the darkness behind the curtains revealing itself. YMMV, though.

[N. Needleman]

Can we discuss recent rumors in spoiler tags in here, or no?

[BigEd]

Can we discuss recent rumors in spoiler tags in here, or no?

Personally, I would prefer a separate "recent rumors" thread, since many rumors ultimately become true. Spoilers for people who aren't up to date with the episodes are a much different thing than future episode spoilers.

[Jonah]

Can we discuss recent rumors in spoiler tags in here, or no?

If not, can you PM me?

[Soolsma]

Recent rumors? I'm having a hard time keeping up due to no solid internet connection yet. Are they discussed elsewhere on this forum?

[Mandrake]

Right. I have been lurking on the Dugpa forum for some time now and haven't been able to add much to the abundance of discussion, criticism, analysis and argument, but it has become clear to me that all the talking down of the new series from fans who want so desperately for it to have the same 'warmth' of the original are perhaps missing the wood for the trees. It hasn't been a perfect, or even qualitatively even, set of episodes so far, for sure. What is inarguably is it's coldness, artificially and nihilistic tone. So, we wanted the pure Lynch/Frost version of TP, right? Well, we have it. Should we not trust them to take this thing to the places we want to go, to find the clear path through the trees, as Frost put it? I think the lack of warmth and intimacy is entirely the point. I am starting this see The Return as the mirror image of the original...whereas that series showed us a luscious Reagan-era soap opera view of smalltown American life and then peeled back the surface to show the corruption within, the new series begins with the notion that America has become a corrupt, fragmented, nihilistic place on the surface, and few could argue that this is how America appears to be at present, as the preeminent failing Western democracy. My guess is that we are going to see the warmth and hope of the American ideal - represented by Cooper - re-emerge over the course of this series, and I believe it just might be a thrilling experience. I am certainly willing to give it a chance!

[Mairzy]

I keep reading smatterings of thought that we are not going to get the true Dale Cooper back until the final episode. Considering that only '8 people' had read the entire script prior to the premiere, why is it that many keep suggesting this? Is this a long-standing rumour/spoiler doing the rounds or just sheer guessing games?

[Jonah]

Recent rumors? I'm having a hard time keeping up due to no solid internet connection yet. Are they discussed elsewhere on this forum?

I'm still not clear what the rules are regarding discussing rumours. There's a few mentioned in the main non-spoiler thread under spoiler tags. And there's a Theories & Speculation thread too. I'm not sure if new spoilers are doing the rounds.

[Hockey Mask]

Fan reaction prediction for Part 7:

The lovers wills keep lovin'.
The haters will keep hatin'.
A few will hate at first but upon watching a second time will love.

[mtwentz]

Fan reaction prediction for Part 7:

The lovers wills keep lovin'.
The haters will keep hatin'.
A few will hate at first but upon watching a second time will love.

Maybe this is a vain hope but, the 'disappointed group' may eventually get in the groove of things.

[boske]

It could sway in the other direction. Imagine meeting mrs. Spike yelling at her husband for five minutes. And more Chad.

[Snailhead]

My feelings on the new material is very, very similar to my initial reaction to Mulholland Drive. First time around, I was absolutely mesmerized but also quite frustrated by it and a little perplexed. Second time around, it all falls into place beautifully. My experience, which I suspect is a common one, is that on the first viewing I get caught up trying to figure it all out. Second time round, I can appreciate a lot more of what's going on.

[Mr. Reindeer]

My feelings on the new material is very, very similar to my initial reaction to Mulholland Drive. First time around, I was absolutely mesmerized but also quite frustrated by it and a little perplexed. Second time around, it all falls into place beautifully. My experience, which I suspect is a common one, is that on the first viewing I get caught up trying to figure it all out. Second time round, I can appreciate a lot more of what's going on.

This was my exact experience with both IE and Eraserhead. After first viewings, I was frustrated and angry at myself for not "understanding," and was too focused on "solving" the films to let them wash over me in their dreamy, unconscious way. After mulling for a day or two, I revisited each and they instantly became all-time favorites.

MD is one of the few movies I've watched a second time immediately after first viewing. I needed to re-experience the whole thing in light of what I'd learned. I expect that to also be my experience with TP:TR after the last episode, on a macro scale.