General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

[N. Needleman]

I think there is intimacy. It's just not always portrayed in the way you expect it. I find a lot of the sequences with Dougie/Cooper and the family - especially last week - very heartfelt and intimate. I found the scene with Norma watching Shelly and Becky to have its own intimacy. Same with the stuff with Carl in the park, then comforting Lisa Coronado. And I think there's always real warmth in the diner, among other places (the controversial Bobby scene - where Andy and Lucy hold hands - among them).

Whenever Lynch's camera starts tracking in slow I am mesmerized - he does it again with Maggie Brown at the sheriff's office, when she tells Chad the truth about Doris. That to me is not unintentional, it's genuine and it has feeling behind it.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

I think there is intimacy. It's just not always portrayed in the way you expect it. I find a lot of the sequences with Dougie/Cooper and the family - especially last week - very heartfelt and intimate. I found the scene with Norma watching Shelly and Becky to have its own intimacy. Same with the stuff with Carl in the park, then comforting Lisa Coronado. And I think there's always real warmth in the diner, among other places (the controversial Bobby scene - where Andy and Lucy hold hands - among them).

Whenever Lynch's camera starts tracking in slow I am mesmerized - he does it again with Maggie Brown at the sheriff's office, when she tells Chad the truth about Doris. That to me is not unintentional, it's genuine and it has feeling behind it.

You're right.
There is plenty of emotinal depth.

It's just not finger clicking intrigue.
But I see what you're saying. Anyway, like I said before--there's lots to like about the return

[Jonah]

As I said in another thread, this new show isn't Twin Peaks. It's way too divergent from the original television show and film. It's definitely a Lynch production and it is interesting and riveting on it's own, but this really hasn't been a return to Twin Peaks.

Agreed - at least so far. As I've said elsewhere, I think of this show as "The David Lynch Show" or "The David Lynch Variety Show". It also feels quite like "Mulholland Drive - The Series". I think as it goes on, it will feel more like a return to "Twin Peaks".

[AgentEcho]

I didn't mean literally JJ Abrams

But sometimes a competent director with a fans understanding of what was intriguing about something can be better than a creators eyes; who can only see the inspirations and sum of the parts of their own creations. Frost and Lynch look at Agent Cooper and see Sherlock Holmes mixed with Kyle Machlachlan, for instance. Their clearly not afraid to deconstruct their own work DOugie style in a way fans would never dream of in their worst nightmares. Creators can't see their own creation the way others see it.

There were so many directors in the original series. Imagine how glorious Peaks could be with some great writers, and a director bringing say Gyllenhall's style of directing to the Twin Peaks universe. Sometimes it's nice seeing other people's magic go into something, rather than Lynch's coin flipping over and over again

Fair enough. I mean I can see your point. At least with something like Star Wars, I understand why people would want someone else taking the reigns from George Lucas. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find whatever Rian Johnson does with Star Wars more interesting than what Lucas did with the prequels.

But for me, Lynch is on a different level. He's a singularly unique cinematic artist, on the level of Kubrick. I haven't been very impressed by attempts by other directors to do Kubrick. I'm not sure 2010 even tried, but when a director with the chops of Steven Spielberg can't do Kubrick, probably nobody but Kubrick can do Kubrick. And it's the same with Lynch. For me, there are some good non Lynch directed episodes of the original series, but the Lynch directed stuff is on another level entirely.

I can see what you're saying. I loved what Lynch brought to the old seasons. And I would've agreed with you until the new season aired.


Just on a side note, the reason I think this season really suffers- is the lack of intimacy.

The old twin peaks was totally voyeristic, with the camera stuck up Shelleys skirt, and the audience privy to James and Donna burying the locket. Every moment, with every character was intimate, and the warmth of the show radiated from this warmth projecting off Cooper and the other characters. Even the villains occupied warm, red dangerous but inviting places.

This series is so cold. Snaps into the most mundane, cold, irrelevant moments of people's lives. I realise that's intentional, and that Frost and Lynch want to focus on old age and death and blah blah

But if someone was to recreate the original magic they would have to go back to narrowing in on the heat, and romance and lust and passion and emotion that made the old series what it was.

Some parts of this series remind me of a job I had editing footage of nursing homes

I think the lack of intimacy and coldness are valid observations. I tend to agree with it, and I discussed it earlier in the thread. I believe it's intentional and setting up something different, which I would expect a good number of fans who have been antsy will actually like, but we'll see. I'm thinking this is like Mark Frost and David Lynch taking fans on a road trip back to Twin Peaks. And there are fans in the back of the van saying "are we there yet?" and "Where's the coffee and cherry pie?" instead of enjoying the sights and sounds of the journey. Eventually, the journey will lead back to Twin Peaks though.

As I noted earlier, it seems personal info about the familiar characters are being withheld from us. We have seen what some of these characters are up to but not how they got there. Who is the father of Shelly's daughter? How did Bobby go from drug dealing football player to a cop? Hell we're actually getting to know other new cops better than Bobby. Personally I think there's a lot to be filled in with these familiar characters, and the ones we haven't seen yet, and we'll get there. I don't really get why it's such a huge issue that we're not getting it in the opening third of a 17+ hour production.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Fair enough. I mean I can see your point. At least with something like Star Wars, I understand why people would want someone else taking the reigns from George Lucas. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find whatever Rian Johnson does with Star Wars more interesting than what Lucas did with the prequels.

But for me, Lynch is on a different level. He's a singularly unique cinematic artist, on the level of Kubrick. I haven't been very impressed by attempts by other directors to do Kubrick. I'm not sure 2010 even tried, but when a director with the chops of Steven Spielberg can't do Kubrick, probably nobody but Kubrick can do Kubrick. And it's the same with Lynch. For me, there are some good non Lynch directed episodes of the original series, but the Lynch directed stuff is on another level entirely.

I can see what you're saying. I loved what Lynch brought to the old seasons. And I would've agreed with you until the new season aired.


Just on a side note, the reason I think this season really suffers- is the lack of intimacy.

The old twin peaks was totally voyeristic, with the camera stuck up Shelleys skirt, and the audience privy to James and Donna burying the locket. Every moment, with every character was intimate, and the warmth of the show radiated from this warmth projecting off Cooper and the other characters. Even the villains occupied warm, red dangerous but inviting places.

This series is so cold. Snaps into the most mundane, cold, irrelevant moments of people's lives. I realise that's intentional, and that Frost and Lynch want to focus on old age and death and blah blah

But if someone was to recreate the original magic they would have to go back to narrowing in on the heat, and romance and lust and passion and emotion that made the old series what it was.

Some parts of this series remind me of a job I had editing footage of nursing homes

I think the lack of intimacy and coldness are valid observations. I tend to agree with it, and I discussed it earlier in the thread. I believe it's intentional and setting up something different, which I would expect a good number of fans who have been antsy will actually like, but we'll see. I'm thinking this is like Mark Frost and David Lynch taking fans on a road trip back to Twin Peaks. And there are fans in the back of the van saying "are we there yet?" and "Where's the coffee and cherry pie?" instead of enjoying the sights and sounds of the journey. Eventually, the journey will lead back to Twin Peaks though.

As I noted earlier, it seems personal info about the familiar characters are being withheld from us. We have seen what some of these characters are up to but not how they got there. Who is the father of Shelly's daughter? How did Bobby go from drug dealing football player to a cop? Hell we're actually getting to know other new cops better than Bobby. Personally I think there's a lot to be filled in with these familiar characters, and the ones we haven't seen yet, and we'll get there. I don't really get why it's such a huge issue that we're not getting it in the opening third of a 17+ hour production.

I think the intrigue is played well.
I'm just as excited as you to see what the hell were dealing with here

[Jonah]

I have to say, I'm loving the series, but there is one thing that's been nagging on me;

I'm not loving the Red Room stuff this season. Something about it just lacks the otherworldly power it had in the original series and Fire Walk With Me. Not sure if it's due to how distant and wide it's shot, which kind of makes the place feel more like an empty stage than an endless labyrinth. Or if it's just that only Mike being there causes it to feel a bit empty as though there's something missing.

Also, i think the fast and loose approach to some of the visuals have kind of made the work a bit less consistent than say FWWM. Like, I don't think we've gotten a "Convenience Store" scene that's really gotten under my skin visually and auditorially yet. So, I'm still hoping for some really disturbing supernatural imagery to come, I just don't think Lynch has topped the finale of the original show, or the Maddy murder yet.

Also, I'm hoping for a few more big musical moments where a Roadhouse song is actually employed in a scene. Those have always worked beautifully.

But yeah, overall loving it. Might be one of my favourite Lynch works, so far, I do wish it some of the visuals were a bit more consistent and polished though (I haven't seen Mulholland Drive in far too long, but I feel like it did a good job of never looking, well, cheap, in a way that some of the intentionally weak effects shots hurt the mise en scene in The Return)

About the Red Room: it's not backlit, is the thing. I imagine that many people here have read the riveting tale of poor Ron Garcia's struggles to light the place from beyond the curtains. I see is no such light in TPTR, and it drastically changes the mood. I imagine this could be part of the reason why it feels less magical to many people? It doesn't have that low-key impossible lighting anymore, and I think our brains registered it as weird even if we didn't realise why.

I wonder if it's intentional for esoteric reasons we cannot yet fathom, a tragic consequence of using richer, thicker fabric for the curtains, or something else entirely.

Yeah, I think the curtains are slightly different and also the digital photography provides a different look. I really don't have an issue, it's fine by me but it does look a bit different. Let's not forget though that the Red Room of Ep.2/International Pilot vs the Red Room of Ep.29/FWWM also looks very different. As for the mystique, I don't think it lost any. It's become more intriguing to me because they are exploring it more deeply. We knew that Coop was trapped in there, so it was obvious that plenty of time would be spent in it. They couldn't just do the same things with Ep.29, there should be some new stuff.

Thoughts on the Red Room - new vs. old. (Maybe this needs its own thread?)

The one in the original series looked vastly superior imo - and I would be honestly surprised and curious if other people disagree on that.

Good catch mentioning the backlighting - yes, I think that made a big difference.

But I think the major issue is the curtains. The new ones look almost pink at times, glittery. They are very poor. And the backlighting is missing.

But it's more than that. The red room looks too bright now too. Almost like a video game.

Agreed that it no longer feels as labyrinthine or otherworldly and strange. I miss the jazz music too.

I know this is being shot on digital, but I think they should have tried to maintain the look of the red room. It was perfect just as it was.

I'm very disappointed with the new red room - probably the most disappointing aspect of the revival for me. It managed to look consistent between the series and FWWM, so I just am very surprised it looks so different now. (I don't recall it changing in appearance much between Episode 2 and Episode 29? Did it change radically? I can't see a difference, if so. I do remember some differences in FWWM, but still felt it looked mostly the same.)

[Jerry Horne]

I didn't mean literally JJ Abrams

But sometimes a competent director with a fans understanding of what was intriguing about something can be better than a creators eyes; who can only see the inspirations and sum of the parts of their own creations. Frost and Lynch look at Agent Cooper and see Sherlock Holmes mixed with Kyle Machlachlan, for instance. Their clearly not afraid to deconstruct their own work DOugie style in a way fans would never dream of in their worst nightmares. Creators can't see their own creation the way others see it.

There were so many directors in the original series. Imagine how glorious Peaks could be with some great writers, and a director bringing say Gyllenhall's style of directing to the Twin Peaks universe. Sometimes it's nice seeing other people's magic go into something, rather than Lynch's coin flipping over and over again

Fair enough. I mean I can see your point. At least with something like Star Wars, I understand why people would want someone else taking the reigns from George Lucas. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find whatever Rian Johnson does with Star Wars more interesting than what Lucas did with the prequels.

But for me, Lynch is on a different level. He's a singularly unique cinematic artist, on the level of Kubrick. I haven't been very impressed by attempts by other directors to do Kubrick. I'm not sure 2010 even tried, but when a director with the chops of Steven Spielberg can't do Kubrick, probably nobody but Kubrick can do Kubrick. And it's the same with Lynch. For me, there are some good non Lynch directed episodes of the original series, but the Lynch directed stuff is on another level entirely.

I can see what you're saying. I loved what Lynch brought to the old seasons. And I would've agreed with you until the new season aired.


Just on a side note, the reason I think this season really suffers- is the lack of intimacy.

The old twin peaks was totally voyeristic, with the camera stuck up Shelleys skirt...

Damn. I missed that episode.

[crazyscottishguy]

Watching the Red Room scenes in S1, S2 and FWWM was such a rush of adrenaline, while the S3 scenes are just BLAH! There's no mystery, no anticipation, no gripping chills, no strobe lights!

[Jonah]

Very much agree. It was a treat to see Coop with Laura in there again - and I'm fine with the choice about the new arm/tree - but the place lacks substance and style now. It just doesn't feel otherworldly and mysterious. There's a more videogame/sci-fi feel to it now.

[mtwentz]

I have to say, I'm loving the series, but there is one thing that's been nagging on me;

I'm not loving the Red Room stuff this season. Something about it just lacks the otherworldly power it had in the original series and Fire Walk With Me. Not sure if it's due to how distant and wide it's shot, which kind of makes the place feel more like an empty stage than an endless labyrinth. Or if it's just that only Mike being there causes it to feel a bit empty as though there's something missing.

Also, i think the fast and loose approach to some of the visuals have kind of made the work a bit less consistent than say FWWM. Like, I don't think we've gotten a "Convenience Store" scene that's really gotten under my skin visually and auditorially yet. So, I'm still hoping for some really disturbing supernatural imagery to come, I just don't think Lynch has topped the finale of the original show, or the Maddy murder yet.

Also, I'm hoping for a few more big musical moments where a Roadhouse song is actually employed in a scene. Those have always worked beautifully.

But yeah, overall loving it. Might be one of my favourite Lynch works, so far, I do wish it some of the visuals were a bit more consistent and polished though (I haven't seen Mulholland Drive in far too long, but I feel like it did a good job of never looking, well, cheap, in a way that some of the intentionally weak effects shots hurt the mise en scene in The Return)

About the Red Room: it's not backlit, is the thing. I imagine that many people here have read the riveting tale of poor Ron Garcia's struggles to light the place from beyond the curtains. I see is no such light in TPTR, and it drastically changes the mood. I imagine this could be part of the reason why it feels less magical to many people? It doesn't have that low-key impossible lighting anymore, and I think our brains registered it as weird even if we didn't realise why.

I wonder if it's intentional for esoteric reasons we cannot yet fathom, a tragic consequence of using richer, thicker fabric for the curtains, or something else entirely.

Yeah, I think the curtains are slightly different and also the digital photography provides a different look. I really don't have an issue, it's fine by me but it does look a bit different. Let's not forget though that the Red Room of Ep.2/International Pilot vs the Red Room of Ep.29/FWWM also looks very different. As for the mystique, I don't think it lost any. It's become more intriguing to me because they are exploring it more deeply. We knew that Coop was trapped in there, so it was obvious that plenty of time would be spent in it. They couldn't just do the same things with Ep.29, there should be some new stuff.

Thoughts on the Red Room - new vs. old. (Maybe this needs its own thread?)

The one in the original series looked vastly superior imo - and I would be honestly surprised and curious if other people disagree on that.

Good catch mentioning the backlighting - yes, I think that made a big difference.

But I think the major issue is the curtains. The new ones look almost pink at times, glittery. They are very poor. And the backlighting is missing.

But it's more than that. The red room looks too bright now too. Almost like a video game.

Agreed that it no longer feels as labyrinthine or otherworldly and strange. I miss the jazz music too.

I know this is being shot on digital, but I think they should have tried to maintain the look of the red room. It was perfect just as it was.

I'm very disappointed with the new red room - probably the most disappointing aspect of the revival for me. It managed to look consistent between the series and FWWM, so I just am very surprised it looks so different now. (I don't recall it changing in appearance much between Episode 2 and Episode 29? Did it change radically? I can't see a difference, if so. I do remember some differences in FWWM, but still felt it looked mostly the same.)

I on the other hand, like the Red Room much better this time. The old one needed some updating.

More importantly, what is going on in the Red Room in The Return is also more interesting to me. Episode 29 was great for its day, but a lot of it frankly felt like a last curtain call for characters like Leland, Laura, Maddy, Senor Droolcup. It was done in a fun way, but it still feels like filler in some spaces (at least up to the point until the doppelgangers come in).

In this new Twin Peaks, however, there is not a wasted moment in the Red Room.

[boske]

I'm very disappointed with the new red room - probably the most disappointing aspect of the revival for me. It managed to look consistent between the series and FWWM, so I just am very surprised it looks so different now. (I don't recall it changing in appearance much between Episode 2 and Episode 29? Did it change radically? I can't see a difference, if so. I do remember some differences in FWWM, but still felt it looked mostly the same.)

The first time we see the red room is the original 25 years in the future (episode 2?), the floor there is covered with dust as if anything barely moved there in the preceding 25 years. The episode 29 has a very clean, pristine floor. This kind of detail simply shows what kind of superior thinking went into the original series. Compare that to what we seemingly have now, watching the paint dry.

Furthemore, something that bugged me too, is that Cooper and Philip Gerard move through the lodge now as if they were in a video game, their walk looked very cartoonish, for a moment it felt like watching Super Mario go for it. Compare that to how Cooper walked in episode 29.

[LateReg]

I'm very disappointed with the new red room - probably the most disappointing aspect of the revival for me. It managed to look consistent between the series and FWWM, so I just am very surprised it looks so different now. (I don't recall it changing in appearance much between Episode 2 and Episode 29? Did it change radically? I can't see a difference, if so. I do remember some differences in FWWM, but still felt it looked mostly the same.)

The first time we see the red room is the original 25 years in the future (episode 2?), the floor there is covered with dust as if anything barely moved there in the preceding 25 years. The episode 29 has a very clean, pristine floor. This kind of detail simply shows what kind of superior thinking went into the original series. Compare that to what we seemingly have now, watching the paint dry.

Furthemore, something that bugged me too, is that Cooper and Philip Gerard move through the lodge now as if they were in a video game, their walk looked very cartoonish, for a moment it felt like watching Super Mario go for it. Compare that to how Cooper walked in episode 29.

In the new series, is the floor dirty-ish or no? I can't remember right now.

[boske]

I'm very disappointed with the new red room - probably the most disappointing aspect of the revival for me. It managed to look consistent between the series and FWWM, so I just am very surprised it looks so different now. (I don't recall it changing in appearance much between Episode 2 and Episode 29? Did it change radically? I can't see a difference, if so. I do remember some differences in FWWM, but still felt it looked mostly the same.)

The first time we see the red room is the original 25 years in the future (episode 2?), the floor there is covered with dust as if anything barely moved there in the preceding 25 years. The episode 29 has a very clean, pristine floor. This kind of detail simply shows what kind of superior thinking went into the original series. Compare that to what we seemingly have now, watching the paint dry.

Furthemore, something that bugged me too, is that Cooper and Philip Gerard move through the lodge now as if they were in a video game, their walk looked very cartoonish, for a moment it felt like watching Super Mario go for it. Compare that to how Cooper walked in episode 29.

In the new series, is the floor dirty-ish or no? I can't remember right now.

It is super shiny and the Tree Doppleganger can turn it into Lego blocks.

[douglasb]

All the new merch continues to be nostalgic. Is that an acknowledgement that the new effort is just not going to be iconic in the same way?

[Jonah]

I on the other hand, like the Red Room much better this time. The old one needed some updating.

More importantly, what is going on in the Red Room in The Return is also more interesting to me. Episode 29 was great for its day, but a lot of it frankly felt like a last curtain call for characters like Leland, Laura, Maddy, Senor Droolcup. It was done in a fun way, but it still feels like filler in some spaces (at least up to the point until the doppelgangers come in).

In this new Twin Peaks, however, there is not a wasted moment in the Red Room.

Interesting to see how different everyone's opinions are. I'm glad you're liking it, but I think the best thing I can say about the new red room is that I guess it does suit the overall look of the new series. But I still think it's a major disappointment. And not just because overall I preferred the look and feel of the original series. Simply because I think the original red room was mysterious and otherworldly and this one does not give me those feelings at all.

The first time we see the red room is the original 25 years in the future (episode 2?), the floor there is covered with dust as if anything barely moved there in the preceding 25 years. The episode 29 has a very clean, pristine floor. This kind of detail simply shows what kind of superior thinking went into the original series. Compare that to what we seemingly have now, watching the paint dry.

Furthemore, something that bugged me too, is that Cooper and Philip Gerard move through the lodge now as if they were in a video game, their walk looked very cartoonish, for a moment it felt like watching Super Mario go for it. Compare that to how Cooper walked in episode 29.

I did notice it had a video game look and vibe to it - and yes, very much like an 80's video game or Super Mario - but didn't notice the walking specifically. Maybe that contributed subconsciously to my feeling on it though!

Really, more than anything, I hate how bright it is in there - and the new curtains.