General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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mtwentz
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:49 am

mtwentz wrote:I think the Red Room/Black Lodge looks terrific. Every home is in need of an update after 25 years, why would the Black Lodge be any different?


A timeless place like The Black Lodge loses some of its timelessness if it needs an update after certain time.[/quote]

Well, obviously, it's not completely timeless. The Evolution of the Arm (evolution implies time) proves that. It just might be on a different clock.

In fact, I've always had the view that the Red Room is the way Cooper perceives the Black Lodge- and that perhaps for different people, the Lodge might appear differently. So I definitely think the Red Room has the ability to change (in the Twin Peaks mythology at least).
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Trudy Chelgren
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:05 pm

Rami Airola wrote:
But still I'm very interested whenever some Lodge stuff happens.


This. I love what's happened in the Lodge so far, really inventive, incendiary ideas, and some stunning footage, but purely the color palette is not sitting right with me at the moment. Maybe it will change, I don't know. Right now I feel funny.

The way you say you feel removed from it, I agree totally. I never felt like the Red Room was an immersive place, a place to feel you could inhabit and explore, it's too beyond anyone for that, but I feel very conscious that it's a 'film' when I see those scenes. Maybe Twin Peaks will always have moments where your suspension of disbelief is broken, and i like that in a way, but the Red Room, to me, is supposed to feel so alien that you are taken away from any 'real world' understanding or recognition or memory, other than "what is this place, how does it work?"

Other than that, my only issue with The Return was the jarring, seemingly unnecessary use of green screen when Gordon, Albert and Tammy are driving through South Dakota. It's been absolutely incredible, and I've loved it's arguably more intriguing and original premise.
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laughingpinecone
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby laughingpinecone » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:09 am

A friend and I were thinking about The Return's structure, its peculiar length, and if we could think of any precedents or comparisons. We came up with the 2011 NDS/iOS videogame Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective, a story-heavy adventure in 18 chapters which is my personal benchmark for tight plotting and structure.

Leaving aside a few humourous, accidental story parallels (donuts! Shameless authorial self insertions! Spirits travelling through electricity!), I think we found a good reference for the development of a single, tightly interwoven story spread out over 18 parts.

Ghost Trick uses its first six chapters to set up the board. Several storylines are introduced, occasionally name-dropping each other, but seemingly disconnected for the most part. Chapters 7/12 bring them all together by spelling out their connections and shows the scope of its tale. From there, it's a constant crescendo until the end, with ch15 offering the biggest concentration of twists and revelations, slowing down just a moment in ch16 to let the audience breathe and take it all in and expertly juggling the ending between ch17 and 18.

TP is, of course, a very different story with different beats, but I found it interesting how ch7 felt like the first major push forward, just like in GT. It'll be interesting to see if this three-acts structure is a natural pacing for a story of this length.

Tl;dr: if anyone's feeling skeptical about the various plot threads in tptr coming together eventually, there's a fantastic precedent in 18 chapters which ties up EVERYTHING and which has followed exactly the same pacing so far.
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Hockey Mask
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:56 am

Once it is over I expect we will see parts 1-6, 7-12, & 13-18 very differently from each other.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:25 am

Just wanted to chime in to say there has been some fabulous discussion about the Lodge's aesthetic, particularly Trudy Chelgren's posts.

I have really enjoyed the acting and writing in those scenes, and some of the changes in visuals have been incredibly neat (such as when the curtains lift and the chevron floor goes on endlessly, and there's that weirdly superimposed Horse.)

But yes, the colours and lighting are too bright and sterile for my liking.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby psyifinotic » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:19 pm

IcedOver wrote:How is this show doing for Showtime financially at this point, if that's known? I'm not sure how premium channels make money except by subscribers, as they don't air regular commercials. I'm hoping that, even if the show turns out to be an artistic failure overall (as is looking likely), it at least allows Showtime to have a satisfactory return on their investment. I can't recall one person being given such total creative freedom and control over a TV show, and the fact that they did that should be rewarded.

tell me when the next show thats an 'artistic failure' gets 99% on rotten tomatoes for the first 2 episodes :)
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laughingpinecone
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby laughingpinecone » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:06 pm

Snailhead wrote:
But yes, the colours and lighting are too bright and sterile for my liking.

I pouted about this for a month and then I saw 1+2 on the big screen this week and the curtains looked amazing. Different, and I still prefer the old ones, but still magical. Like light on the surface of a stream...
] The gathered are known by their faces of stone.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:17 pm

laughingpinecone wrote:
Snailhead wrote:
But yes, the colours and lighting are too bright and sterile for my liking.

I pouted about this for a month and then I saw 1+2 on the big screen this week and the curtains looked amazing. Different, and I still prefer the old ones, but still magical. Like light on the surface of a stream...


Mhmm. Re-watching it has helped me to appreciate it as something new (despite preferring the old look).
My favourite Red Room shots of S3 so far are the seguing closeups that pan across the curtain with the twangy music, along with the ones of Mike waving his arm around in the air and contacting Coop (Dougiecoop). Oh and the effect with Laura taking off her face is fabulous, reminiscent of when Laura's face was superimposed onto Donna's in S1 Ep 1 (right before Sarah first sees Bob.)
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby laughingpinecone » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:37 pm

Snailhead wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:
Snailhead wrote:
But yes, the colours and lighting are too bright and sterile for my liking.

I pouted about this for a month and then I saw 1+2 on the big screen this week and the curtains looked amazing. Different, and I still prefer the old ones, but still magical. Like light on the surface of a stream...


Mhmm. Re-watching it has helped me to appreciate it as something new (despite preferring the old look).
My favourite Red Room shots of S3 so far are the seguing closeups that pan across the curtain with the twangy music, along with the ones of Mike waving his arm around in the air and contacting Coop (Dougiecoop). Oh and the effect with Laura taking off her face is fabulous, reminiscent of when Laura's face was superimposed onto Donna's in S1 Ep 1 (right before Sarah first sees Bob.)

All hail the twangy music always! :D
I've 100% come around to the brilliancy of the whole revisited Coop-Laura scene, too. Laura's "I am dead yet I live" struck me as solid gold from the get-go, and I loved the overall idea of revisiting Lodge scenes over and over like in FWWM to convey a sense of... winding atemporality, I guess. But I wasn't too enamored with the other variations in and by themselves. Now I'm starting to find some instinctive meaning in them, and I'm sure I'll like them even more once we get the full picture.
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sylvia_north
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:27 pm

That was completely unexpected. Something to be said for the element of surprise.

Watching season 2 I'm thinking "this is such a low stakes game." And now, we've gone full tilt 60's sci fi exploitation meets Eraserhead and a rock video. I can't complain. My mind was blown!
Too Old to Die Young > TP S03
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Hercousin
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:04 pm

The only thing I'm really salty about is NIN. Like, we've got limited time to get this thing moving. I'm all for the interstellar cosmogony after the nuke blows, but all I could think was "did I just have to fucking watch 5 minutes of fucking Trent Reznor?" in the middle of my favorite thing ever? I'm solidly indifferent to the music itself but fucking COME ON. Maybe with captions the lyrics will be a revelation but right now I'm so mad.

On the plus side we got Laura's soul sent to earth from atop the mountainiest of mountains in the middle of an interdimensional purple ocean and a viscous demon mother vomiting up BOB. So I guess it will all balance out. Right?

Also, I'm donezo reading predictions from all forums. Nope.
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counterpaul
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:33 pm

Hercousin wrote:The only thing I'm really salty about is NIN. Like, we've got limited time to get this thing moving. I'm all for the interstellar cosmogony after the nuke blows, but all I could think was "did I just have to fucking watch 5 minutes of fucking Trent Reznor?" in the middle of my favorite thing ever? I'm solidly indifferent to the music itself but fucking COME ON. Maybe with captions the lyrics will be a revelation but right now I'm so mad.


This is very important to remember: There is no limited time here. The whole point of Lynch's walk-out was to ensure that he could make exactly what he wanted, shoot it all as a giant movie, and then sort out how many parts there would be for broadcast later. This was NOT made like a TV show, with a set number of hours to fill. The duration came later--after Lynch and Dunham had their final cut of the whole thing. Certainly, it's fair to say you didn't like the musical interludes for whatever aesthetic reason, but please note that cutting them would only make the whole 18-part project shorter, not free up more time for alternate material. They shot everything they wanted and included everything they wanted in the final cut.

My god, that was glorious.
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DoppelBocker
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby DoppelBocker » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:40 pm

Overall, I'm thinking there will still be ground left to cover once Season 3 completes...

I think fans will have the 2nd book to look forward to from Mark Frost who'll hopefully tie up some of the stuff people are wondering but still feel perhaps the identity of Twin Peaks is changing to some degree after finishing episode 8. I'm not sure how far they'll go here but it's "The Return" not simply an additional development as we would've saw if something were made in the '90's. I'm at a loss right now but show has my interest just feels more than bit different. I guess I hope there'll be a Season 4 (or Return Season 2) to really get into this stuff more so.
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Hercousin
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:43 am

counterpaul wrote:
Hercousin wrote:The only thing I'm really salty about is NIN. Like, we've got limited time to get this thing moving. I'm all for the interstellar cosmogony after the nuke blows, but all I could think was "did I just have to fucking watch 5 minutes of fucking Trent Reznor?" in the middle of my favorite thing ever? I'm solidly indifferent to the music itself but fucking COME ON. Maybe with captions the lyrics will be a revelation but right now I'm so mad.


This is very important to remember: There is no limited time here. The whole point of Lynch's walk-out was to ensure that he could make exactly what he wanted, shoot it all as a giant movie, and then sort out how many parts there would be for broadcast later. This was NOT made like a TV show, with a set number of hours to fill. The duration came later--after Lynch and Dunham had their final cut of the whole thing. Certainly, it's fair to say you didn't like the musical interludes for whatever aesthetic reason, but please note that cutting them would only make the whole 18-part project shorter, not free up more time for alternate material. They shot everything they wanted and included everything they wanted in the final cut.

My god, that was glorious.


Mmm...okay. Fair enough. I guess I want to know WHY this was a choice he wanted to make. It nearly ruined the rest of the episode for me, and like I said, apart from the Lost Highway soundtrack which I love, I have no real opinion on the band. Just my gut reaction. I'm still on board.
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counterpaul
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome) (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:44 pm

Hercousin wrote:
counterpaul wrote:There is no limited time here. The whole point of Lynch's walk-out was to ensure that he could make exactly what he wanted, shoot it all as a giant movie, and then sort out how many parts there would be for broadcast later. This was NOT made like a TV show, with a set number of hours to fill. The duration came later--after Lynch and Dunham had their final cut of the whole thing. Certainly, it's fair to say you didn't like the musical interludes for whatever aesthetic reason, but please note that cutting them would only make the whole 18-part project shorter, not free up more time for alternate material. They shot everything they wanted and included everything they wanted in the final cut.


Mmm...okay. Fair enough. I guess I want to know WHY this was a choice he wanted to make. It nearly ruined the rest of the episode for me, and like I said, apart from the Lost Highway soundtrack which I love, I have no real opinion on the band. Just my gut reaction. I'm still on board.


I think it's constructive to look at the NIN performance in the larger context of the 18 hour film. Lynch was, I think, very methodically creating a sense of spaciousness in order to rhythmically build up to that explosion sequence. This sequence came on the tail of a very tight span of narrative, with quite a bit of expositional house-cleaning. From the last section of Part 6 through most of Part 7, a lot of pieces got moved into place and the story was really hopping along. Lynch knew things were about to take a turn.

So, we get the sweeping scene at the Roadhouse. He's prepping us here. Saying, "Okay, folks, let's take a breath." Then COOPER and Ray leave prison. Then another extended musical interlude at the RR. Another breath, emphasizing the tonal, non-narrative aspects of this piece. Then Ray shoots COOPER and the Woodsmen emerge. Then the NIN performance, which is long and discordant and simultaneously slows things WAY down and preps us for chaos.

Filmmaking is like music in that it is organized time. Twin Peaks is not non-narrative filmmaking--everything happens in the larger context of story--but one of the many fantastic things that Lynch is doing here is employing some of the tools of non-narrative filmmaking. Because, this is storytelling in time using sounds and images. All these things are crucially important: story, time, sound, and image.

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