General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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Gersten Hayward
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Gersten Hayward » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:37 pm

I don't think Audrey was that bad at detective work. She and Donna seemed to end up doing more actual investigating than Cooper & Truman, who spent a lot of time sitting around eating donuts and getting Hawk to do the legwork :lol:
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N. Needleman
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:01 pm

I was fine with Audrey being involved in the DEA subplot - that seemed to be the last remaining bit of build to the Cooper/Audrey romance arc. I enjoyed that. I just also thought her working at the Great Northern with Ben allowed her to come into her own that much more. And having her in power suits and making moves ('like Katharine Hepburn,' I think, is what Harley Peyton claimed Sherilyn had asked for, but grain of salt) matured the character and made a potential romance with Cooper that much more palatable IMO.
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Cappy
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Cappy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:58 pm

I still have a bit of trouble buying Audrey ending up working at the Great Northern and being cool with her dad after the whole One Eyed Jack's debacle. In episode 14 she was giving Cooper information with the intent of sending Ben away forever, then in ep. 17 she's just back in the family fold like nothing ever happened. Her character just had so much bite, so much agency, that having her forgive Ben without any big cathartic blowoff to her anger with him diminished her character (not to mention the writers dropping the Cooper romance as well).

I always thought it would've been more in character for her to rebel against her family (or be excommunicated) and work at the Double R for the rest of the original series. Maybe she could bunk with Shelly and help put up a wall in the run down Johnson estate, or maybe Audrey could've even rented a room from Sarah Palmer, who had all that space and really just wanted some company. And of course she would've still got in the middle of Agent Cooper's investigations.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Agent Earle » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:01 am

For me, Cooper & Audrey investigating is not the direction I'd want the original series to go in - what we got of it (the One Eyed Jack's business and consequently the Dead Dog Farm stuff) was just the right amount and it made sense story-wise as it was the consequence of Audrey wanting to discover the truth about one of her schoolmates' murder and to impress Cooper whom she was so taken with. After that got resolved, though (satisfyingly, in my view), continuing with Audrey investigating things would feel to me like a cheap, unearned way to keep her in the show's limelight and in Cooper's vicinity (after that fire was extinguished). It wouldn't have worked, 'cause TP was never about Cooper and Audrey - it was about Laura, it was about the town and underlying darkness, about Cooper & Laura, about Cooper (the much hated Cooper and Annie stuff, for instance, was really about Cooper), and ultimately about all of those things intertwined in a very singular way. Audrey was a colorful and fun passer-by that enlivened things, sure, but at the end of the day, she was just one of the huge ensemble of more or less quirky characters (no more important than, say, Bobby Briggs, dr. Jacoby, Catherine Martell, Harold Smith or Andrew Packard). That's why the intentions of the writer crew that we've heard about over the years about Audrey & Cooper's romance becoming the central theme of the show after the Laura Palmer resolution always seemed like the bad ones to me - I wanted the show to focus on Cooper and the town's mysteries; making it into the weekly adventures of Dale & Audrey would've felt like the typical Hollywood catering to mainstream sensibilities and popular demand. What we got instead, popularly believed to be the "messy" phase of the show, was something I was excessively more happy with, and it re-affirmed the show's untamed, one-of-a-kind nature.
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eyeboogers
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:33 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Eye roll a thousand (but with love)

She wasn’t good at it because it’s a tv story and it needs opposition. She only really worked as a character as a mini detective who was too impatient and should’ve kept getting in over her head. You know because it’s a tv show. Um, the whole returning the favor and saving Cooper with the blackmail photos and meeting a future inspiration in Denise. The sudden business woman plot took off any edge and complexity to the character, but then all the characters lost their edge by then.

Happy New Year, everyone!


I get that you love the character, but that is just not how screenwriting works. You as a writer back a character into a corner to reveal who and what they truly are. Audrey tried her hand at something, discovered she was not exactly good at cloak and dagger approaches and grew from it (took her life in a different direction). Away from a career track that could have ended in disaster and a man twice her age.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:35 am

eyeboogers wrote:I get that you love the character, but that is just not how screenwriting works. You as a writer back a character into a corner to reveal who and what they truly are. Audrey tried her hand at something, discovered she was not exactly good at cloak and dagger approaches and grew from it (took her life in a different direction). Away from a career track that could have ended in disaster and a man twice her age.


There are plenty of examples in film and literature of a character being bad at something, but sticking with his/her dream and becoming good at it. Arguably, that’s a more satisfying arc than immediately giving up and doing something completely different. I think either type of development can be potentially satisfying depending on the execution. The execution in S2 wasn’t terribly satisfying to many in regards to Audrey, particularly (as Cappy has mentioned) the sweeping under the carpet of her traumatic experience with Ben at OEJ.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:02 am

Before The Return, I always imagined if TP came back, we'd see Audrey running the family business. Ben would have gone on to be Senator and would probably be involved in some controversy or shady deals. I didn't really see Audrey becoming an FBI agent because I felt that had more to do with her affection for Cooper and finding a way to endear herself to him. I actually liked watching Audrey grow up in the second season and seeing glimpses of the sharp business woman it seemed like she would eventually become. I think glossing over OEJ and her father's relationship with Laura and how that affected his relationship with Audrey lessoned the story arc. I also think the reduced amount of time between Cooper's and Audrey's characters in Season 2 zapped some of the excitement. Whenever they interacted, it was like turning over a new leaf and seeing some part of the characters that we didn't really see when they were with other characters - at least that's how it felt to me - not because I wanted their relationship to be romantic necessarily, but because it was so much fun watching them together in a scene. Really disappointed we didn't have at least one scene with them together in The Return - I would have flipped out.
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eyeboogers
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:01 pm

Hester Prynne wrote: Really disappointed we didn't have at least one scene with them together in The Return - I would have flipped out.


and that is exactly why they didn't give us such a scene :-)
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:52 am

Audrey was actually pretty damn good at undercover investigation. Can't always be perfect, especially not the first time. I mean, is Cooper a crappy FBI agent because of the mistakes he once made?

In any case, regarding her sudden business interest, I got the distinct impression that she was playing everyone, and damn effectively. She had Bobby and others under her spell in a quick minute. It seemed that she was reigning the business in, not to walk in Ben's shoes but rather to perpetuate her headstrong and rebellious inclinations to greater ends. Poking a hole in a coffee cup is devious and cute, but it is also the playful display of a wild spirit bent on subversion of the estate, unafraid to ruffle a few feathers in the pursuit of doing good, ultimately wrenching financial control from Ben while driving the Ghostwood development into the ground.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Audrey Horne » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:05 pm

Yeah, it’s a friggin tv show and your good guys have to get into trouble and have pitfalls. Cooper gets shot. Hell, James Bond always gets captured and the bad guy looks like they always have the upper hand. Once they had her be a business woman they still tried to make it work with how that character operates in the story. She’s wiley against the villains, opposition (playing Bobby to get Coopers blackmail photos, Jerry Horne) but the problem was there was so little conflict with the characters in the late half... Ben, Leo, Catherine were so neutered to having dramatic weight in the story for the protagonists to play off of.
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Mordeen
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mordeen » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:01 am

Line One.jpg
Line One.jpg (569.86 KiB) Viewed 1305 times


. . .Cooper foolishly tries to save Laura. . .



Line Two.jpg
Line Two.jpg (361.21 KiB) Viewed 1305 times
Moving Through Time. . .
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eyeboogers
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:14 am

Mordeen wrote:Line One.jpg

. . .Cooper foolishly tries to save Laura. . .



Line Two.jpg


Mordeen, I think the reason why nobody has replied to this yet is that our collective heads are hurting from decoding what you are hinting at :D

One interpretation could be that Cooper is stabbed by Window Earle in Philadelphia and left to die along with Caroline. Are they then transported to the lodge? (did one of them have the ring on at the time). Does a wounded Cooper simply wander out from the lodge under the condition that he must return 25 years later?

I am probably wildly off the course, but wonder what you are getting at :?:
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mtwentz
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:51 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Mordeen wrote:Line One.jpg

. . .Cooper foolishly tries to save Laura. . .



Line Two.jpg


Mordeen, I think the reason why nobody has replied to this yet is that our collective heads are hurting from decoding what you are hinting at :D

One interpretation could be that Cooper is stabbed by Window Earle in Philadelphia and left to die along with Caroline. Are they then transported to the lodge? (did one of them have the ring on at the time). Does a wounded Cooper simply wander out from the lodge under the condition that he must return 25 years later?

I am probably wildly off the course, but wonder what you are getting at :?:

I'm guessing Mordeen hypothesis is that Cooper from the knife wound by Earle and is with Laura in the Lodge forever.
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Mordeen
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mordeen » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:14 pm

mtwentz wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
Mordeen wrote:Line One.jpg

. . .Cooper foolishly tries to save Laura. . .



Line Two.jpg


Mordeen, I think the reason why nobody has replied to this yet is that our collective heads are hurting from decoding what you are hinting at :D

One interpretation could be that Cooper is stabbed by Window Earle in Philadelphia and left to die along with Caroline. Are they then transported to the lodge? (did one of them have the ring on at the time). Does a wounded Cooper simply wander out from the lodge under the condition that he must return 25 years later?

I am probably wildly off the course, but wonder what you are getting at :?:

I'm guessing Mordeen hypothesis is that Cooper from the knife wound by Earle and is with Laura in the Lodge forever.


It's a matter of which Lodge.

-Mordeen
Moving Through Time. . .
cgs027
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby cgs027 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:43 pm

No idea if this is the appropriate place for this (and moderators, feel free to move this as you see fit).

Russian Doll on Netflix has a scene in the final episode where Odessa is in the name of a café that plays a role in the climax. No way that is not on purpose. And, the series is fantastic as well, highly recommended. Don't want to give anything away, but the initial Groundhog Day premise gives way to major timeline fukkery.

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