General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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LateReg
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:22 pm

What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.
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Cappy
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Cappy » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:11 am

LateReg wrote:What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.


Definitely. I think there's also something also to be said for The Return's fixation (or mere acknowledgement) of human mortality and health -- One main character is completed sidelined due to illness (Harry Truman), another succumbs to illness in the middle of the story (Log Lady), and then there is whatever the deal is with Tom Paige.

Not to mention that Audrey and Sarah Palmer appear to be shut ins to varying degrees. Has there ever been a tv show where so many characters were explicitly ill?

I don't want to make the hot take that "The Return anticipated current events", but it's certainly interesting to think about.
LateReg
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:48 am

Cappy wrote:
LateReg wrote:What about the sick zombie-esque girl with the unknown disease and her honking mother in Part 11? I think that level of panic and confusion goes along with what you're saying as well.


Definitely. I think there's also something also to be said for The Return's fixation (or mere acknowledgement) of human mortality and health -- One main character is completed sidelined due to illness (Harry Truman), another succumbs to illness in the middle of the story (Log Lady), and then there is whatever the deal is with Tom Paige.

Not to mention that Audrey and Sarah Palmer appear to be shut ins to varying degrees. Has there ever been a tv show where so many characters were explicitly ill?

I don't want to make the hot take that "The Return anticipated current events", but it's certainly interesting to think about.


Yes, hugely powerful acknowledgments of the decline of health, amidst many other declines. I certainly can't think of another fictional work that treats death as something so real, which intertwines with its approach to illness. All part of the spell or pall The Return casts.
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Saturn's child
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:04 am

mtwentz wrote:The Thing is the most relevant Carpenter movie to today’s situation...


I don't mean to make light of the situation, but you could also make an argument for Big Trouble in Little China & Escape From New York... :P
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:27 pm

Saturn's child wrote:
mtwentz wrote:The Thing is the most relevant Carpenter movie to today’s situation...


I don't mean to make light of the situation, but you could also make an argument for Big Trouble in Little China & Escape From New York... :P


When there was talk of New York being quarantined...
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Pinky
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Pinky » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:43 pm

someone just asked Kyle if there's any Mr C in Odessaverse Coop and he said no. Kind of assumed there was.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby baxter » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:14 pm

On a first viewing, I assumed that there was too. But on a second viewing, it really seemed that I was just watching normal Cooper, but a Cooper who is increasingly confused and anxious as he realises the gravity of the situation.
LateReg
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:00 am

Pinky wrote:someone just asked Kyle if there's any Mr C in Odessaverse Coop and he said no. Kind of assumed there was.


Hmmm. Me too. I don't know if I agree with that. It's very hard not to see Mr. C at Judy's diner, or during the sex scene. I think, in fact, Frost had basically said otherwise when discussing Cooper's journey and hubris in the end in some interview he gave shortly after the finale aired. Talking about integrating his shadow self, which would be Mr. C. I may have read into that to be about Richard, and I can't remember exactly what was said, but I really thought it was said...
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:04 am

Just for reference, I believe this is the tweet you’re referring to.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:19 am

Here’s another quote from Kyle regarding Richard, from Variety:

Did you feel that Richard, in the finale, was a distinct character of his own, or just Cooper with a different name?

He was… different. The way it was described to me, he’s just a little harder. So it was another variation, sort of a subtle variation obviously, compared to the other two, but a subtle variation of Cooper. And so that was that last hour, Watching him navigate that.

I don’t recall the specific Frost quote LateReg is mentioning, although Mark gave so many great interviews post-finale, including some hour-long podcasts, that it’s difficult to keep track of everything he said. It definitely sounds right. Anyway, Kyle admits in that Variety interview that he doesn’t ask Lynch for guidance unless he really feels like there’s something he needs that isn’t in the script, so his interpretation may vary from Lynch’s, which might well vary from Frost’s! (Remember that the idea of “Richard” as a separately-named character in P18 is something Lynch did on his own, and Mark says Lynch never explained his reasoning.) I think the way Kyle played it clearly evokes Mr. C, with the slow deliberate intonations and movements. It frankly seems like a very conscious performance choice on Kyle’s part, so it’s surprising to see him deny it.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby enumbs » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:33 pm

MacLachlan’s demeanour as Cooper noticeably hardens in the red room before meeting Diane at Glastonbury Grove.

Perhaps he’s saying Mr C didn’t return in the diner scene because he’d in fact returned earlier, or even that he had been there all along...
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Cooper is harder because a Tulpa was made from him. We know that Mr.C lost the maniacal "How's Annie?" joy of being evil somewhere along the way, and I am fairly certain it was due to Dougie v.1 being made from a part of him. Notice how Dougie v.1 was all about joy, and excess/gluttony. Now a second Dougie has been made of the real Coop and it is having consequences. Also at the point Cooper exits for the curtain call, it seems he has been through this particular loop more than once. He has picked up a ton of new tricks, has become "The Magician" and empathy, joy and hope is in short supply.
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eyeboogers
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:46 pm

eyeboogers wrote:Cooper is harder because a Tulpa was made from him. We know that Mr.C lost the maniacal "How's Annie?" joy of being evil somewhere along the way, and I am fairly certain it was due to Dougie v.1 being made from a part of him. Notice how Dougie v.1 was all about joy, and excess/gluttony. Now a second Dougie has been made of the real Coop and it is having consequences. Also at the point Cooper exits for the curtain call, it seems he has been through this particular loop more than once. He has picked up a ton of new tricks, he has become "The Magician" and empathy, joy and hope is in short supply.

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