The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

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AgentEcho
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary

Postby AgentEcho » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:35 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:Also, even if people try to find a way to rationalize the Annie pages being missing, we're also shown Laura's entry presumably written the night before she was killed ("I know it wasn't Bob"). So they seem to be forgetting Leland ripped the pages out a week earlier. Best to just think she wrote these pages elsewhere and - if it turns out Leland was the one who put them in the bathroom door - that Leland found these too on that last day. A more practical question: why wouldn't he flush the pages down the toilet?


What is the indication she wrote that the night before she was killed? Was it the date?


The scene in which she sees Leland's face appear in place of Bob's occurs the night before she was killed - while she has suspicions earlier than that, it really feels to me like this entry is intended to take place after that particular trauma, her full "reveal" moment.


Yeah you are probably right. In that case the only rationalization is that Laura wrote pages in a new diary and Leland took them when he killed her. But they are clearly tying it to the Secret Diary with the pages torn out.

I'd guess Frost and Lynch fell in love with the idea of the torn pages resurfacing and the Annie clue being in them. I can't really blame them, I mean it is a pretty juicy tie in to the original mysteries.

Unless... Laura wrote the passage in a disassociative state and had no memory of it, and Leland/BOB somehow knew and ripped out the pages so she couldn't remember. I think I'm gonna run with that. :D
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:42 pm

By the time Laura had written these pages, she had admitted to herself who Bob was and no longer felt the need to treat her replacement diary as a kind of cover.

I believe we even see Laura writing in this diary the last night of her death. The answer is simple: Hawk is wrong.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 pm

Wonderful & Strange wrote:By the time Laura had written these pages, she had admitted to herself who Bob was and no longer felt the need to treat her replacement diary as a kind of cover.

I believe we even see Laura writing in this diary the last night of her death. The answer is simple: Hawk is wrong.


I'm not discounting the theory but see if you can't take Hawk down with it. Given that the diary hidden with Harold is in the possession of the police, it wouldn't be hard for them to match the pages with the book. One would think Hawk would have done this before declaring they are the missing pages of the diary found with Harold. Hawk's reputation as a law man must stay in tact for any rationalization theory to work for me.

I'd rather take down Lynch and Frost's reputation for continuity than take town Hawk's police work, let me put it that way. :D
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:49 pm

Wonderful & Strange wrote:By the time Laura had written these pages, she had admitted to herself who Bob was and no longer felt the need to treat her replacement diary as a kind of cover.

I believe we even see Laura writing in this diary the last night of her death. The answer is simple: Hawk is wrong.


Wasn't the last diary entry she wrote about hating asparagus and being nervous about meeting "J"? Anything is possible, but if you look at the "second diary" as presented in the Pilot, it's not remotely consistent with the pages we see in TP:TR. The pages are much smaller and are in a "planner" format, with multiple dates on a page. It seems very likely that what Coop saw on the page in the Pilot for 2/23 is all she wrote, so to speak. (And, again, the VERY specific tying-in of one of the torn-out pages to Jennifer Lynch's book makes it pretty obvious that the intent was for these pages to come from the secret diary.)
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:57 pm

Great questions.

Personally, I don't have a problem with characters, even law people, making mistakes. But here are some reasons why Hawk might be confused:

Harold Smith's version was ripped apart and it would be difficult to know if these pages were from it or the replacement.

Another complication would be that one or more of these pages could be from the original. Leland likely took pages from both. Discerning the difference between the two would be difficult, especially in a rural town.

The diary Cooper originally looked at didn't have these pages in it because Leland ripped them out.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:00 pm

All due respect, who gives a shit? A difference that makes no difference is no difference. Y'all are keeping your eye on the hole, not the donut.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:43 pm

First of all,Hawk is just theorising that Leland may have placed the pages.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:31 am

IcedOver wrote:
Rami Airola wrote:One thing I got out of this is the realization that Leland might've had these pages with him for several days after murdering her daughter. He really kept these pages with him and obviously didn't want to get rid of them. He didn't hide the pages to get rid of them but to keep them safe until he can get them back. If he wanted to get rid of the "evidence" or something, he would've burned the pages already. No, he wanted to keep them and maybe read them over and over again. With this in mind it makes sense for him not to flush them away.


But if she gave the diary to Harold Smith before she even wrote the comments about Annie, Leland never could have gotten them.


Well, it depends on if what Hawk said is supposed to be correct that Leland hid the pages.
If it is so, they are either retconning things or will offer some other explanation for the inconsistency.

But if it really is supposed to be true that Leland hid them, then what I wrote is pretty much what they are hinting at.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:35 am

krishnanspace wrote:First of all,Hawk is just theorising that Leland may have placed the pages.


Yep, a character statement is not the same thing as an authorial statement. Sometimes yes, but not necessarily so.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:52 am

The thing here is that if we're supposed to keep things consistent, basically ANYONE having those pages is a problem. Even Mike hiding them would be a problem. Hell, even the existence of those pages is a problem continuity-wise.

There needs to be a way for Laura to write those pages after she had given the diary to Harold, if the pages are supposed to be from that diary.


Maybe Leland got in Harold's apartment and ripped the pages off there? Maybe Leland even killed Harold later and destroyed the diary.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:11 am

Here's an elaborate explanation that might work for some people.

So once Laura gave her diary to Harold, we know that he basically had people like Laura and Donna dictate to him, and he'd then write their stories down.

But Laura has this crazy dream where Annie tells her to write it down, so Laura can't wait to go to Harold's and tell him the story. She's not even sure when she'll return there, so she decides to write this entry down with the intention to take it to Harold when she can. She either writes it in her replacement diary, or a third one.

Before she can get to Harold though with the Annie entry, she finally has the revelation that Leland is Bob, and also writes this down.

Now at this point a couple possible things happen:

1. Laura is able to get to Harold's place on her last day alive to transfer her new entries to him, but we just don't see it happen on screen. The question is though: how does Leland get these entries? Answer: he either breaks in to Harold's at some point and takes them (doubtful) or he takes them from the police station once he hears about the secret diary.

2. Even though Laura transfers her diary information to Harold, she's in such a sorry state that she also holds on to the entries she'd written down herself. She forgets to toss these and Leland finds them while she's out and that's part of his motive for tracking her down and killing her: she's discovered the Leland-Bob connection.

I think also, despite what a 25 year old TV show shows us, we have to assume Laura's diaries all look the same. That helps create ambiguity about which diary the pages come from.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:02 am

The Jumping Man wrote:All due respect, who gives a shit? A difference that makes no difference is no difference. Y'all are keeping your eye on the hole, not the donut.


One could argue the hole is the healthiest part of the donut!
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:17 am

Wonderful & Strange wrote:Great questions.

Personally, I don't have a problem with characters, even law people, making mistakes. But here are some reasons why Hawk might be confused:

Harold Smith's version was ripped apart and it would be difficult to know if these pages were from it or the replacement.

Another complication would be that one or more of these pages could be from the original. Leland likely took pages from both. Discerning the difference between the two would be difficult, especially in a rural town.

The diary Cooper originally looked at didn't have these pages in it because Leland ripped them out.


Good thoughts. I forgot that the diary was ripped up. The police reassembled it right? I can't recall all the details but it would make sense and I'm pretty sure they eventually knew the contents of the diary.

Hawk's information seems very specific. He knows there were four pages missing and one is still missing. I'd still think it's a simple matter for him to take the found pages and line them up with the tear patterns of the missing pages.

But, Laura keeping another diary makes total sense.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 am

The diary thing certainly is a bit tricky. It boils down to being a bit sloppy continuity wise.

But there are certainly scenarios that one could come up with to explain them.

1. If we say Laura had the Annie Dream more than once, and one or two were before she gave Harold the diary. They actually could have easily worked this into the new episode if the entry said, "had the same dream again..." Then we could say Leland took all the pages at the same time. Left some at the train car, and kept these. Of course one of the pages shown implied it was written the night before Laura died, but I guess you could rationalize that by saying she wrote this without really remembering or excepting it.

or

2. We assume Laura actually went back to Harold's after she gave him the diary. The original show already suggests this is the case since Harold has an entry Laura wrote the day she died. Now if this is the case, and if it really was still Leland who found these new pages, it means Leland found out about Harold as well. This isn't really a stretch, Leland could easily have followed Laura that week, or followed Maddy when she went to Harold's. Or possibly Bob even "saw" Harold when Laura was briefly possessed. He would have had to get in and take the pages at some point. Maybe he went there the day Harold died? And was even connected to Harold dying?

Of course Bob/Leland is then surprised to hear from Donna about the diary. Maybe he was faking? Or was just surprised the police had it.

One of the more bizarre decisions to me was now saying that the police knew there were exactly still 4 pages missing. This seems unlikely since the dairy was so destroyed. I guess they were able to put it back together enough to tell?(!)
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby federicomiozzo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:51 am

The Jumping Man wrote:All due respect, who gives a shit? A difference that makes no difference is no difference. Y'all are keeping your eye on the hole, not the donut.


Well not really IMO
I find it hard to watch a show I love so much having a continuity error, simply because this is lame writing.
It does not matter whether TP is a show of the supernatural. Once they decide to give an explanation worded by Hawk in this case that explanation better work. Otherwise just leave it there for speculation.
Continuity error because they didn't take enough time Lynch and Frost to take care of details the show needs.

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