Mr. Reindeer wrote: That's just one possible idea. I honestly don't particularly care how the pages ended up torn out or in the bathroom stall. It's not super important to my enjoyment of the show. The important thing is, it can easily be explained any number of (slightly convoluted) ways. It's not Norma having a mother with a completely different name who cofounded the diner and died before the start of the series. It's not a true "continuity error" as it stands, and thus it doesn't bother me at all. Life is messy and stuff goes unexplained. Hawk offered a theory -- which didn't take into account data that we as viewers have -- and we can take it or reject it as we see fit. Like much of TP, it's open to interpretation.
Now if some future Part explicitly confirms the Leland theory and says he stole the pages from Laura's room, my Log may have more to say about this. Until then, I'm cool with it.
I do not understand how people are bothered by this alleged continuity issue and not bothered by the fact that while Twin Peaks is being overrun by drugs, the Sheriff's department is apparently ok with devoting precious man hours on looking through the evidence file on a 25-year old solved case simply based on a phone call from the town eccentric (with no evidence of any crime having been committed) .
BigEd wrote:I posted this in the other thread, but not much traffic there. I believe the entry immediately proceeding the Annie entry was on or around Halloween. I take that as indication that the Annie dream was three to four months prior to Laura's death. They wedged it in between the picture-room dream and Laura waking up to show it is clearly a dream. It doesn't have to occur chronologically between either of those. There is no rule that scenes in FWWM are chronological.
I'm not following your logic. The Annie dream and the Halloween thing were on two separate pages. No one said the three pages were consecutive/contemporeaneous. In fact, they're clearly not...one page is from Halloween and one is from 2/24 (the day after she learned Bob's true identity).
The FWWM script makes it blatantly obvious that the intent was to cover the last seven (well, technically eight) days of Laura's life in sequential order.
You may wish to rewatch that. The end of the Halloween entry was on the top of the same page as the Annie entry. I think this is telling us that it was around that time that Laura wrote the entry. The fact that we see it in FWWM, where we do, may just be a flash back (maybe Laura, coming out of another dream, suddenly remembers the older dream with Annie that she recorded in her diary months earlier). This isn't science folks. It's art.
BigEd wrote:I posted this in the other thread, but not much traffic there. I believe the entry immediately proceeding the Annie entry was on or around Halloween. I take that as indication that the Annie dream was three to four months prior to Laura's death. They wedged it in between the picture-room dream and Laura waking up to show it is clearly a dream. It doesn't have to occur chronologically between either of those. There is no rule that scenes in FWWM are chronological.
I'm not following your logic. The Annie dream and the Halloween thing were on two separate pages. No one said the three pages were consecutive/contemporeaneous. In fact, they're clearly not...one page is from Halloween and one is from 2/24 (the day after she learned Bob's true identity).
The FWWM script makes it blatantly obvious that the intent was to cover the last seven (well, technically eight) days of Laura's life in sequential order.
You may wish to rewatch that. The end of the Halloween entry was on the top of the same page as the Annie entry.
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
I'm not following your logic. The Annie dream and the Halloween thing were on two separate pages. No one said the three pages were consecutive/contemporeaneous. In fact, they're clearly not...one page is from Halloween and one is from 2/24 (the day after she learned Bob's true identity).
The FWWM script makes it blatantly obvious that the intent was to cover the last seven (well, technically eight) days of Laura's life in sequential order.
You may wish to rewatch that. The end of the Halloween entry was on the top of the same page as the Annie entry.
No, it's not.
We need the previous page, because I believe that is the one that talked about Halloween and the sentence clearly continued onto this page.
At the end of all this, someone needs to do a monster edit of Laura's two diaries, incorporating TSDoLP and all entries read/glimpsed onscreen in both series and FWWM. Will be really interesting to see how it all fits.
krishnanspace wrote:First of all,Hawk is just theorising that Leland may have placed the pages.
Very true, and realistically this is the best answer: Hawk is wrong.
However, it feels to me that it is intended to be a true answer of how the pages ended up in the bathroom. And if Hawk is wrong, the mystery remains.
Just one problem... When is Hawk ever wrong?
Seriously, think about the law enforcement characters. Cooper was the guy charged with discerning the truth but every other character is an information source. Andy and Lucy make mistakes for comedic effect. Harry was frequently wrong when it came to judging people or the supernatural. Albert was wrong socially but was great for facts and conclusions. Gordon is word of god reliable for exposition but not for reciting the exact words he's heard.
Hawk is generally reliable source of information when it comes to events, the supernatural, conclusions and even Denise's fashion sense. Hawk is the guy who recounted the terms if the lodge test. If we were meant to take that account as wrong it wouldn't have come from this character.
Its either a soft retcon or the Lodge is messing with time and events again.
So, what is the significance of the Halloween page in the diary?
All the torn out pages were, we assume, torn out for a reason. Does the undiscovered 4th page give more information on the Halloween passage? Otherwise, what is the significance in it being torn out? Why would BOB/Leyland tear out that particular entry when it appears so innocuous to the story at first glance.
krishnanspace wrote:First of all,Hawk is just theorising that Leland may have placed the pages.
Very true, and realistically this is the best answer: Hawk is wrong.
However, it feels to me that it is intended to be a true answer of how the pages ended up in the bathroom. And if Hawk is wrong, the mystery remains.
Just one problem... When is Hawk ever wrong?
When he's missing an important piece of information? He doesn't know Laura gave the diary to Harold before the dates of those entries. If he did, he might well have reached a different conclusion. Coop was frequently wrong in his surmises on the original show, suspecting the wrong people before honing his conclusions in light of new evidence.
AJPRR2GO wrote:So, what is the significance of the Halloween page in the diary?
All the torn out pages were, we assume, torn out for a reason. Does the undiscovered 4th page give more information on the Halloween passage? Otherwise, what is the significance in it being torn out? Why would BOB/Leyland tear out that particular entry when it appears so innocuous to the story at first glance.
I recall the Jennifer Lynch book said that some of the ripped pages contained poems and something the didn't seem to matter.
So I think the intention with this plotline from the get go wasn't that every page was supposed to be a thing that would incriminate Leland. Maybe Leland ripped some pages he enjoyed reading afterwards.
AJPRR2GO wrote:So, what is the significance of the Halloween page in the diary?
All the torn out pages were, we assume, torn out for a reason. Does the undiscovered 4th page give more information on the Halloween passage? Otherwise, what is the significance in it being torn out? Why would BOB/Leyland tear out that particular entry when it appears so innocuous to the story at first glance.
I recall the Jennifer Lynch book said that some of the ripped pages contained poems and something the didn't seem to matter.
So I think the intention with this plotline from the get go wasn't that every page was supposed to be a thing that would incriminate Leland. Maybe Leland ripped some pages he enjoyed reading afterwards.
I dunno, some of the poems contained the strongest hints in the book toward Bob's true identity -- like the 4/24/86 poem that describes a happy childhood memory of skipping with "him" before he began asking her to lie down. The torn-out poems could have been even more explicit.
The Halloween page does seem pretty innocuous, but maybe there's something on the back.
I guess we simply have to face it's a continuity error, that's all. It doesn't take away beauty from the masterpiece TR is.
They simply could not avoid using the FWWM Annie dream and other material because of the depth and beauty and mystery it adds to the story, also because plot-wise it is the best link to help Twin Peaks Police in understanding that the Cooper that went out was not the one that came in, and to take (finally) the supernatural part of the show to top all of he other factors ( a thing that they were not able to do completely in the original series)
Plus, Laura is going to be really important in the series in future episodes (just look at "Laura is the One" title and Leland's "Find Laura" to Coop.
I guess since the editing is done there is not any way to twist facts with new informations to make thing go smoothly and this will remain a continuity error that hard-core fans will speculate about.
But a third Diary, or a meals on wheels return to Harold Smith's house to add the Annie Dream information, or that the event in FWWM are not in chronological order, or that the ream was recurrent, etc... they ll look like cringeworthy attempt by fans to try and make it look like no "mistake" was done, when indeed it was, and it is not the only one (electrical pole number 6 and New fat trout say Hello).
The this is that I have many friend that are watching the new season and ALL of em they comment "it's cool but I don't get anything of what's happening", "wow, but man I don't get whats going on". So, yeah, a continuity error might be unimportant for casual watchers, but TPTR is really not so appealing or in any way easily understandable for newcomers or casual watchers.
I have to stop the episodes A LOT to help my partner (which is a HUGE Lynch's and Twin Peaks fan) to help him connect the dots JUST to make him understand what is going on.
I LOVE this 18 hour film, I absolutely love it, and even the fact we are here talking about it's a great thing.
I am watching it as an ART film, as I did with Eraserhead when I have the guts to put the DVD on.
Nevertheless, unless Frost/lynch are such geniuses that in the next episodes they will come out with the REAL explanation that puts this "pages mess" in order, this is and will be simply a continuity error of lame writing. It must be hard for the writers to deal with such a mythological series like Twin Peaks and all of its plot's ramifications.
From the vibe I got of Hawk's explanation to Truman during Episode 7 I am pretty convince that THAT is the explanation they are going to stick with: those pages were torn from the 2nd diary which Harold had and this will never "sit well" with FWWM events.
