The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

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thefifthlizard
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby thefifthlizard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:02 pm

Thank god we barely got a mention of the diary in TSHoTP. Knowing its track record we would have had even more inconsistencies to deal with.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Noidea » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:04 pm

Seems some people are getting way too fixated on continuity. Did we really need a scene in FWWM of Laura knocking on Harold's door on the day of her death like "Oh hi Harold I know I said I might never come back but there's just a couple more things I need to write in my diary ok thanks bye".
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Noidea wrote:Seems some people are getting way too fixated on continuity. Did we really need a scene in FWWM of Laura knocking on Harold's door on the day of her death like "Oh hi Harold I know I said I might never come back but there's just a couple more things I need to write in my diary ok thanks bye".


Seriously. This is drama, not documentary.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:52 pm

Noidea nailed it. Hawk already gave us the official version, just live with it and move on.....
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby metrojoe82 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 am

I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that Laura wrote about Annie in her diary previously and had the dream in the past or more than once? The moment with Annie is a dream/vision, not something that happened in the "real world." I doubt Lynch and Frost just made a glaring timeline mistake. I'm sure they are fine with it being this way because time/space related to all things Black Lodge don't really make sense or follow convention to begin with.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:57 pm

Noidea wrote:Seems some people are getting way too fixated on continuity. Did we really need a scene in FWWM of Laura knocking on Harold's door on the day of her death like "Oh hi Harold I know I said I might never come back but there's just a couple more things I need to write in my diary ok thanks bye".


I agree people can take continuity errors too seriously. My goal with the thread was to try and work it into a workable interpretation, which is how I like to approach engaging with any piece of fiction (instead of being predisposed to find fault like many seem to). But I have no problem with Lynch making creative decisions at the expense of continuity, either with FWWM or this new series. A good example of people getting too fixated on continuity: I encountered a post criticizing Better Call Saul because the actors look older than they did on Breaking Bad when the characters are supposed to be younger. Those kinds of folks need to give up fiction. But I haven't seen anything on that level in this thread.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:50 am

metrojoe82 wrote:I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that Laura wrote about Annie in her diary previously and had the dream in the past or more than once? The moment with Annie is a dream/vision, not something that happened in the "real world." I doubt Lynch and Frost just made a glaring timeline mistake. I'm sure they are fine with it being this way because time/space related to all things Black Lodge don't really make sense or follow convention to begin with.


With that in mind, the "I know who it is" passage could also be pre-FWWM. Why would BOB tear pages out after all those years of just reading? Because suddenly she wrote about relevant information he doesn't want her remembering. I think, prior to the Tremonds giving her the picture, she wasn't "awakened" enough to fight off his control if he wanted her to forget things, or she wasn't psychologically ready to accept the information so she kept burying it or he kept burying it. At some point, she wrote it in the diary, so he took it. He also took the bit from Annie because it was knowledge of the future, knowledge he wouldn't want her or anyone else to have. Not sure how BOB perceives time but it would be in keeping with his actions if he knew that losing Laura would lead to another psychically gifted person entering town, and a chance to get at them.

And really, this just makes more sense. The loss of the diary pages leads to her knowing he's been at her diary. Which means she takes Pierre Tremond's warning seriously when he says the Man Behind the Mask is in her room. Tearing out the pages LED to her realizing who it was for real, and ultimately led to her death and BOB losing his chance at getting her for a host. It would make sense if he originally did that because she had written down much more dangerous info he wanted her to forget, rather than just some poetry.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:53 pm

Why wouldn't there be 'glaring' continuity errors? Why would the sprawling TP universe be error-free when the average two hour Hollywood movie is littered with them?
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby DoppelBocker » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:45 am

Been checking out these boards off/on for last few weeks hello everyone! :)

Just want to add to this conversation that I think another work-around to this simply being an error is a far out fan theory I recall reading on a now defunct Twin Peaks message board (just googled up few weeks ago) relating to the prequel movie FWWM having certain parts that happened AFTER season 2 took place. I don't have an explanation on how this corrects this supposed error on the writer's part but perhaps from a story perspective some sort of time displacement happened?


I'll have to re-watch but here's the basic synopsis of a theory I read on the twin peaks gazette messageboard (seems now be defunct):
Bob is trying to influence events in the past after Coop becomes trapped in the lodge as he sees this as a chance to re-connect back to Laura somehow. Laura's dream is perhaps different in FWWM (entities reaching back into past changing her dream somewhat vs. her just having a precognitive episode?). Coop tells her not to take the ring which perhaps fits Bob's agenda before Annie appears warning her good Coop is still in the lodge.

After this is a traffic scene with Mike (inhabiting Phillip) screaming at Leland as perhaps he's angry Bob is attempting to steal the Garmanbozia back from him (did Laura take the ring in a dream in dream she had at this point in time pre-pilot as opposed to what happened in FWWM?). Mike ( perhaps the midget or arm is the face of Mike it seems that no longer appears in Phillip when inhabiting him) uses the ring to wed himself to his victims is a popular fan theory. Therefore, perhaps Bob sabatoged the dream sequence to avoid having to kill Laura? (theory is Bob wanted inhabit Laura but forced to kill her when she puts ring on as can't have her anymore then) Obviously, it doesn't matter as Phillip (who we learned from season 1 appears at box car to pull Ronnette out anyway) throws the ring to Laura at the end of FWWM so Laura still dies avoiding being inhabited by Bob... Was anything altered though? "We live inside a dream" the arm (face of Mike?) says in FWWM. Reality and time perhaps are areas Season 3 will delve into...

Formulation of a Time-Loop (any of you care to embellish upon this with more detail feel free as my memory's bit hazy so put my questions related to each point in parantheses to see if anyone can embellish upon):
-Beginning of Season 1 Cooper has a dream (in the series is there mention of a dream before the pilot Cooper had meeting Laura not counting what's mentioned in FWWM???)
-In an encounter with Laura she says she'll see him again in 25 years (can't remember exact placement of this encounter but important as she seems to be aware of remaining amount of time within an overall time-loop?)
-End Season 2 Cooper enters the Black Lodge.
-Coop meets Laura in a dream in FWWM warning her and Annie appears telling Laura good coop is in the lodge. It seems very clear this dream sequence is not only future premonitions on laura's part but seems like entities trying use this dream as a contact point (certain contact points throughout 25 yr period perhaps they can use without disrupting the laws of time in the physical world?).



What can't add up:
Still the sequence issue of giving the diary to Harold after Bob tears them out before having the dream encountering Annie then supposedly being able to write something in it and they become missing an issue but perhaps there's been as yet other alterations Season 3 will layer in?

Kind of at a loss but just thought I'd throw some other angles out there in case someone wants to add something to this angle of thought.
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby DoppelBocker » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:10 pm

Analyzing Sequence of Events in FWWM to ascertain where she could've wrote the entry seen in Season 3:
In FWWM, we know that Laura walks to school, talks to James (will have to doublecheck if this point gives him necklace but think is), then leaves with Donna saying bye to Bobbie whose trying to act all cool. Afterwards, at Donna's house she lets her troubles out then goes home drinking and smoking discovering her pgs. torn out of her secret diary. She goes and gives it to Harold afterwards emotionally telling him it probably last he ever see of her and then can be seen at home listening to Bob through the fan.

Later (next day supposedly) she's about to help the RR with Meels on Wheels program (perhaps seeing Harold again but doesn't) until quits after running into old lady who gives her a painting and kid tells her what Leland/bob doing that very moment looking for her diary. She goes home in wakeful state seeing Bob fleeing the house seeing Leland exit then distraught goes to Donna's house again. Leland and wife waiting for her at supper table and father possessed by Bob begins messing with her. Bob leaves that night Lelend distraught. Laura then has her dream (goes through dilapidated house with rose wallpaper transported to Lodge where the arm asks cooper if recognizes him giving an Indian woop let know what sounds like as presents laura with ring with cooper telling her not to take it. In perhaps semiwakeful state she wakes up with it in hand and Annie giving her message next to her before looking out her bedroom door noticing she's in the painting with shadow behind her then wakes again without the ring.

Next day, a party at the Roadhouse then to BangBang bar with Donna after before rescuing Donna and go home together talking through the night. Leland picks her up in morning. Situation with Mike occurs on way home. 8:00 a.m. remembers seeing Mike at car stop with ring on pinky is same Theresa wore (flashback to time with Ronnette meeting Theresa and Leland getting heck out of there with kid with mask jumping around nearby). She meets Bobby who trying get his score from Jaques (after Leo not give him any) but a droublecross and they both leave after. James by her house later but he leaves and Leland watching from house carefully. encounter with bob/Leland in room that night.

See regular journal (not secret one) on desk with key as she does drugs next morning telling dad to stay away from her and leaves. Lots interference in electrical lines as goes to school as day goes by in daze. Afterwards, goes to Bobby's house. Later talks to James on Phone then meets with before jilted goodbye (should be noted James speeds out on a redlight something about red means go seems to carry over in Season 3). Of course then Laura meets Leo, Ronnette, and Jaques before 2 girls get captured in cabin where the bird's at. They then get re-captured by Leland/Bob taken to abandoned railcar. Mike appears tossing ring into boxcar after Ronnette falls out forcing Leland to kill Laura then. Glastonbury Grove Leland goes to enter lodge and Bob has give Garmanbozia back to Mike since Laura had the ring on and Laura couldn't be Bob's.


Inferences:
-Did Laura switch places with another Laura in the painting? I noticed she wakes up 2X.
-Red Light meaning go as James Speeds off
-The time Laura tells Leland to stay away from her is time she could've written something about dream she had in the journal

-Main Question (unrelated to FWWM) I have is how did the old Tremond lady get Laura's secret diary pgs. in Season 2?
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Re: The timeline of the key passage from Laura's diary (SPOILERS)

Postby DoppelBocker » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:33 pm

Ignoring the 2 posts I've made above, here's some interesting info. I found out timeline wise after purchasing "Twin Peaks FAQ" by David Bushman and Arthur Smith today...

Jennifer Lynch Book:
pg.193 comments on "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" book by Jennifer Lynch written before season 2 aired with her being 1 of 3 people who knew identity of Laura's killer. The last entry in this book is about 8 months off from the date of Laura Palmer's death as alluded to in the TV show (October 31 1989 last entry in Jennifer Lynch's book but TV show seems to suggest early hours of Feb 24th with Feb. 23 being last entry it seems).

I could be wrong but Season 3 of the show seems to allude to Jennifer Lynch's book as cannon while changing the dates to match the series? (suppose fan rationalization could be Laura put incorrect dates as a misdirect for those reading her diary but from what I recall episode 7 of season 3 seems to utilize Feb. 23rd as actual last entry suggesting Lynch and Frost decided to line things up correctly while still referenging book)


Regular Diary vs. Secret Diary Theory:
I'm guessing as fan rationalization that Laura writes day to day events in her regular diary (as alluded to throughout Season 1) most days then in secret one occasionally (it can be assumed after discovers pgs. torn out and gives to Harold that later secret entries sent to him via meels on wheels or post office afterwards).

Handover of Secret Diary Occurs:
Feb. 16th Thursday (pg.237 of FAQ book cites this date): Laura returns home from school drinking/smoking in FWWM movie before alarm sets in seeing pgs. from secret diary torn out so presumably heads STRAIGHT TO Harold's to hide it there (last time ever sees harold IN PERSON as she ominously indicates to him she senses her end is near before going back to day/day life which suggests her cosmic awareness is fleeting like a dream when dealing with business related to Bob
-The FAQ Book's timeline seems to make a bungling error suggesting on this same date elsewhere on February 16th Cooper meeting Cole about dream he had this specific date as Jeffries appears but know from movie this not the case as it announced Chet Desmond disappears right after encounter with Jeffries ends so this must've happened in feb.16 1988 while the event with laura handing over her diary to harold of course on feb.16 1989





Dreams:
1) Feb.17th Friday (pg. 238 of FAQ book) Laura about to do rounds for Meels on Wheels until runs into Mrs. Tremond (hands her painting to put on wall set-up entryway into Black Lodge in dream she has that night) and kid who tells her Bob at that point looking for her diary. Laura returns home to see Bob then fleeing outside before realizes Leland is the man masked by Bob. At Palmer dinner table that night Leland harasses Laura about necklace; apologizes when Bob leaves him; then laura has Red Room dream as seen in FWWM later that night.
-elsewhere on Feb. 17th Cooper telling albert has a feeling the killer (from yr before) will strike again

2) 21st Tuesday (as suggested in FAQ book): 2nd Red room dream (not seen in FWWM) is same as Cooper has in episode 2 of series with an aged Cooper. Episode 16 of series it's revealed to Cooper Laura also had this dream.

Donna's Investigation in Series:
-episode 8: Donna and Maddy hanging out at the RR when it's discovered a note left for Donna telling her to look into the Meels on Wheels . Pg. 150 of FAQ book theorizes this note was from Harold, the log lady, or the Tremont lady. Donna beleives the note came from Harold (says to him "I received yours" when talking to him over phone at one point) but most likely guess I think is the Tremont lady left this as she meets Donna (house actually has different occupant Donna later finds out) pointing her in direction of Harold as kid ominously recites the suicide note Harold would later leave as old lady complains about creamed corn and kid messing around with it.

-Later episode it's revealed Harold (guessing Tremond lady actually) leaves note for Donna in episode 16 containing a "missing" pg. from diary that reveals Laura had same dream cooper had in episode 2 showing some sort of time anomaly as well as that Laura found out who Bob really is. How did this note end up at Tremont lady's house??? My guess as mentioned above is Laura was sending her updated secret entries by mail and Tremont lady intercepted them.


How many torn out pgs. are there? Just crosschecking some things if anyone wants provide input on this:
-Torn out pgs. Leland shows to Laura before kills her presumably what he tore out before she gave it to Harold? What did these say exactly?
-Secret Journal discovered by Donna and Maddy in Harold's house after Donna was pointed in this direction in episode 8. The note delivered to Donna in episode 16 presumably were the remaining pgs.? (however, going by dates given in FAQ book seems this entry would've been made after already gave secret diary to harold)
-Season 3 has more secret pgs. (again these entries made after given to harold suggesting sent additional pgs. as opposed to torn out ones)


Edit: Just as sidenote while dates in Jennifer Lynch's book definitely don't line up with series, I did notice there were more than "4 pgs." missing. Pgs. 151/152 (1 pg front/back), 154 (back), 160 (back), 165/166 (front/back), 178, 182, and 183 were all torn out. At the end of Jennifer Lynch's book she says she's giving it to Harold for safekeeping so these were all torn out before giving it to Harold (perhaps these just general pgs. guessing identity of Bob that Leland holds up at train station at end of FWWM?). Where'd Hawke get the 4 from is my question (certainly can be inferred 4 referring to are those mentioned in season 3 as well as 1 mentioned in season 2 episode 16 though; meshing with FWWM all 4 of these would've taken place after she turned over journal to Harold so my theory she mailed them to him to add to diary is my best guess and Harold tore these out to hide after Donna and Maddie expressed interest in it). His handwriting is on envelope Donna receives in episode 16; I'm guessing the Tremond lady gained access to all of these after his suicide and directed them to be found at the appropriate times in some manner.

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