What we learned about the Twin Peaks mythology in part 8 (SPOILERS)

[AgentEcho]

I wanted to start a separate thread strictly about decoding how what happened in this episode relates to the overall mythology so the discussion doesn't get lost in all the reaction to the episode.

- The ashen figure seen in the jail cell and the morgue hallway are separate but related beings.
- The monster in the glass box that killed Sam and Tracy is the same as the figure that seems to vomit a nebulous blob that has the spirit of BOB. Erica Enyon is credited as "experiment model" in episode 1, and "experiment" in part 8. Both figures seem to be a female form when you look closely. Is this the "mother" the American Girl refers to as the source of the banging sounds in the purple room? The mother of Bob?
- When ??? sees the movie we just watched and sees Bob, he seems to give birth to a golden orb that contains the spirit of Laura Palmer... is "spirit" too on point? Essence maybe. Whatever her face was in the golden orb. This orb is sent down to earth. The next shot is the bug hatching. Is what happened to the orb? If we follow what happens linearly, it should be. So is the spirit of Laura Palmer in the bug? And is the girl Sarah Palmer? She is a curly haired brunette, the young actress bears some resemblance to Grace Zabriskie. Why were the ashen figures who helped Bob/Cooper also interested in this bug finding a host if it was connected to Laura Palmer? Maybe they have more neutral intentions? I guess I haven't got a handle on that yet.
-Regardless of whether the bug and Laura's spirit are connected, Laura seems to be very important in defeating Bob. Probably more so than Cooper. So it would seem Laura is going to be very important to what happens in the new season.
-The origin of Bob was connected to the detonation of the first nuclear bomb. I'm not sure I'm thrilled about interpreting this as being the birth of Bob though too literally. First of all the evil in the woods of Twin Peaks has been around a lot longer than that, and so has the kind of evil that Bob represents. Maybe the atomic bomb provides a gateway into a timeless realm of evil that birth entities like Bob.

Anyone got anything else?

[djsunyc]

ray shoots dopplecoop. i think that's the only definitively true statement that can be made of the episode

imho, the nuke created so much fear and suffering that it created the portal for the black lodge to enter this world.

[DoppelBocker]

I'm going to re-post what I wrote in the episode 8 thread as just filled up so fast (literally pgs. in the time took to write post) that I think it's worth putting here as most of the episode I think I interpreted to some degree (sure parts utterly confusing but book provided me some basis to kind of go off). Here's what I think I see from episode 8:

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I thought the episode had interesting cinematography but have to say don't feel too fulfilled after watching it. I suppose we'll see over the course of the 18 episodes where things play out as I think watching them in hindsight perhaps more satisfying in the end. With that being said onto analyzing the crazy stuff given:

1945:
Source 1: Here's a link pertaining to 1st detonation of a nuclear weapon following the Manhattan Project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_(nuclear_test)
The test conducted in the Jornada Del Muerto Desert on what was then the USAAF Alamogordo Bombing and Gunnery Range (now part of White Sands Missile Range).

Source 2: Mark Frosts book (pg.255) says Jornada Del Muerto translates to "Journey of the Dead Man" (Jack Parson's in book translates this to life relating to person dead before their time just trudging about; perhaps a trajectory of damnation to a lower state of being can be seen in a lifetime towards being gone and forgotten once pass away with no spiritual ascent/i]). The book goes onto describe "hell gates" with 1 being at Arroyo Seco (Devil's Gate) near Pasadena, CA behind JPL where Parson's initially performed his Thelema rituals (used explosions as part of and cover for while performing his job) in an attempt to open gateway and perhaps summon the goddess Babylon (re-adapted by Aleister Crowley) some say.

The Babylon Working (attempt to open 2nd Gateway and perhaps bring across "the moonchild"; a being Crowley also borrowed from Revelation) seems to have occurred in 1946 in the real world but Mark Frost's book embellishes this a bit having them perform parts of the ritual in 1947 before the Roswell crash as well.




Visuals: Various effects can be seen as camera goes into nuclear mushroom cloud pertaining to the destructive force as well as potentially openning a gate (aqueous effect reminded me of episode 3 where Cooper falls out of Black Lodge through space going through liquid into building overlooking ocean). Lynch seems to infer the destructive force itself in 1945 openned the hell gate hence woodsmen (dead rising as described in some end times scenarios) roaming around causing havoc broadcasting people to enter the deep and descend (not so much a ritual later performed by some occult group that openned gate but blast itself in this given location around hellgate it seems). Besides, the woodsmen (perhaps can be likened to dead spirits of pioneer ancestors rising trudging along doing their jobs bringing the living down to drudgery), the blast also seems to summon a watcher (grey alien as seen in glass box?) of sorts to gurgitate some orbs to descend to earth (the black lodge spirits which odd as weren't they around for generations according to book?).




Giant's Residence: We now know where Coop was at the beginning of Episode 1. The bell shaped drum supposedly some sort of time machine (perhaps the bell Nazi's trying develop in real world back around WW2 some far out conspiracy theorists claim). However, the bell also also resembles the device making a clanking sound inside the building coop fell into in episode 3 (outerspace coop falling through at first until falls into aqueous sort of substance going into this dimension where a residence amidst ocean).

Other than the bell, of course we see another golden orb again (seems souls that enter this lodge can be redirected back to earth or sent to higher plane of being). Not sure what to make of golden orb coming from giants head (perhaps can be likened to gurgitation seen by watcher being spewing out Bob seen on theatre screen). It's odd that orb had Palmer's face upon it in 1945 but I'm guessing this is in an area beyond time...




1956: The egg with insect is supposedly alien vessel this orb arrives to earth I'm guessing. The girl who has the bug crawl into her mouth like the rest of the townsfolk was put into a permanent coma it seems. This means the girl will awaken perhaps with thing that entered her being dormant perhaps...

Laura's mother Sarah I see was born in 1945 so could this be her in 1956? This would mean Laura was destined to be born for a purpose regardless of father. Kind of heady trippy stuff if this is true. I kind of wish things were simpler (seems to change things about too much from what established already in 90's too much for my liking) but will see where things go.

Edit: After writing that post and analyzing over things I do feel sense of fulfillment from watching this episode.

Also after thinking over some more I think the egg supposed to be from the thing that gurgitated Bob as opposed to the orb sent by the giant. If that's the case then not sure what this implies... Thinking back to season 2 didn't Leland say he first encountered Bob as a kid while dreaming at a summer cabin? Says he had a neighbor nearby he think contracted it from. Of course could be many eggs spewed out besides just Bob implying many people perhaps put to partial or permanent sleep while playing host to some evil lodge spirit if not put into permanent coma or death by the woodsmen after this event.

Suppose we'll have to watch more episodes to perhaps find out.

[DoppelBocker]

Here's another thought I had on the "mother" mentioned by American Girl (Ronnette?) in episode 3 this is an earlier thought I had before witnessing episode 8:

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 753#p89753

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 753#p89753
The concept of the grey's being transdimensional vessels for spirits to serve as the Watchers (masked as owls of course). The being that appeared in the glass box is apparently one of these referred to by American Girl as "mother"... (mothership=the control center for the black lodge perhaps?)

I kind of looked at the convenience store scene in FWWM sort of like spiritual beings descending to a lower physical plane of being. The watchers are separate from this but involved in some way.

The grey alien superimposed over the image of an owl can be found in Mark Frost's book. They are the controllers and the watchers. Hard to rationalize with the being seen spewing out Bob in episode 8 though which supposedly likened to Babylon. I can't figure that one out.

[Meaxylon]

I've been thinking a lot about the silver/gold references, especially after episode 8.

In alchemy, the moon is associated with silver and the sun is associated with gold. Moon = silver, Sun = gold.

In episode 8 we see gold "dust" emanating from the giant/?????, creating a golden orb (a soul?)
So the giant/?????? is a creator. Creating is here associated with gold. The sun is seen as giving life as well. ????? = Sun/gold

On the other hand we have the "Mother"/Experiment who is vomiting out BOB, eggs with bugs in them, "birthing" evil and darkness. This seems to be more of a destructive or chaotic act than the giants creation which seems to be emanating from his thoughts/head. This is more like spewing out disease and sickness. In TSHoTP there are references to experiments where they're trying to create a "Moonchild" - described as an antichrist by some. Moonchild - child of the Moon. Child of "Mother". "Mother" = Moon/silver.

In TSHoTP the sun and moon symbols are also commented upon regarding the owl cave map (page 62). "A bunch of circles everywhere, one that looks like the sun, one the moon, maybe".

[AgentEcho]

I think we can also confirm that the ashen figures are indeed related to the "Woodsman" character played by Jürgen Prochnow in the Convenience Store scene in FWWM, as the main figure in this episode who terrorizes New Mexico and recites the poem is credited as "Woodsman", just as Prochnow was. The Woodsmen certainly seem to be forces of evil... anything that crushes the skulls of innocent people can't be too friendly. It would be simpler to think the bug that they seemed to be assisting to find a host is something evil then, but if we attempt to look at the episode in any narrative sense, it seems to be related to Laura. I guess we'll see with that.

We should also be able to confirm that the opening scene of the series was a flash forward to a point in Cooper's timeline that we haven't reached yet. The palace seems to be the same palace that Cooper landed on during his transition from the Lodge to Las Vegas, the "purple room", but the color indicates there is something different about the place The Giant???? resides then where Cooper was. Also if the "experiment/mother" creature was there, we probably can't assume the entire place was strictly a force of good, or the "White Lodge". I have a feeling there is a lot more duality in all these realms than simply places of good and evil.

[Ragnell]

We should also be able to confirm that the opening scene of the series was a flash forward to a point in Cooper's timeline that we haven't reached yet. The palace seems to be the same palace that Cooper landed on during his transition from the Lodge to Las Vegas, the "purple room", but the color indicates there is something different about the place The Giant???? resides then where Cooper was. Also if the "experiment/mother" creature was there, we probably can't assume the entire place was strictly a force of good, or the "White Lodge". I have a feeling there is a lot more duality in all these realms than simply places of good and evil.

I'm still not sure this was a flash forward. Cooper spent 25 years outside of Earth but I don't want to discount the idea he somehow ascended to the White Lodge through that difficulty and misery. I'm open to the idea he was there for 25 years, and this is part of his Ascension and he will get there, just not ready to rule out that he hasn't been there already and is recovering from the effort still, or fighting an obstacle so he can progress on his assigned task.

That said, I'm with you that the Purple Sea is the same place. Cooper landed in a structure that wasn't at the top of the mountain, though. The white structure with the black and white room is at the top, and there is a lot of Ascension imagery associated with the White Lodge. The white structure at the pinnacle is the Lodge itself, the Purple Sea (tranquility? inner peace? healing?) and the mountain/island are possibly waypoints on the journey to the White Lodge.

Furthermore, Cooper wasn't in a stationary structure. He was in a vessel. The knocking didn't happen until after he'd gone inside and approached the eyeless woman. He got a good look at a still, peaceful sea but after he went inside the journey may well have started. Mother might have been accosting his vessel as it traveled through the Realm of Non-Existence, but was unable to chase him while they were on the Purple Sea.

I'd also say that from the alarms in the White Lodge (and I am sure its the White Lodge) matching the top of the vessel, that the vessel was White Lodge created and that the eyeless woman and the American Girl were white lodge spirits helping him.

[DoppelBocker]

Just like to add to the Gold/Silver; Sun/Moon:

-Gold: In the blast that occurs, a melted gold globulous mass roughly resembling an orb can be seen then the camera pans into it seeminging to go a vast distance as Lynch leads the viewer inside it eventually ending at the ocean with Giant's residence. Amidst all the destruction of nuclear blast, could this gold fragment be a substance equating to a small rift in space/time to equate to a sort of stargate that non-physical matter (spirits) can pass through. This makes me wonder if recently deceased (assuming not become trapped on earth as a ghost or in a non-material realm like the lodge) turning to gold orbs perhaps is something similar to the gold mass see within the nuclear explosion? (A deceased individuals soul serving as gateway to appropriate non-material realm based on if the sun has shined on it or not?)

-Darkness: The woodsmen walking around within convenience store cuts to darkness where being gurgitates out the eggs and Bob (presumably around nuclear blast area or within convenience store upon which woodsmen spread the contents across the desert?). My guess is these are the souls of the damned being let out to hatch and infiltrate within people in the physical world. Bob perhaps instead of being born here perhaps is being allowed to crossover with these eggs for some reason perhaps to guide them towards fulfilling some sort of apocalyptic scenario. Why he's let out along with them a mystery but perhaps he shares some sort of association with some of them? (Season 2 is a parasite inhabiting Leland)

-Moon: It seems clouds cover the moon when woodsmen appear? Some sort of association with moon it appears.

-To make things simple blast seems to be triggering end of days events (sort of sequence events like dead rising, mistress Babylon, the moonchild, ect.).

[Cappy]

I initially took the woodsmen to be hobos just living at the convenience store at the time of the atomic test, but I suppose they could've have been dugpas or dark magicians who were there intentionally to conjure BOB into being, and in the process achieving a kind of immortality for themselves.

I am also curious to see if there are other openings to the Black Lodge outside of Glastonberry Grove, like in Buckhorn SD or Las Vegas.. Stylistically, what would these portals look like without douglas fir saplings? And if there can be direct portals to the Black Lodge / Red Room, then are there such gateways to the White Lodge / Purple Room / Wherever The Giant lives?

[Mr. Reindeer]

Hmm. I assumed that the Woodsmen were Lodge spirits who were let through, along with Bob. All the other interpretations are interesting. While the "Woodsman" image obviously has a lot of resonance for the Washington setting, it's kind of funny that they "come through" in New Mexico, a state not exactly known for its logging industry. For that reason, I do tend to assume they're Lodge spirits and not, say, the resurrected dead (as much as the idea of a Logger's Graveyard in the New Mexico desert amuses me).

I thought perhaps that the "Woodsman" form, like the Owl, is a mask that all the Lodge spirits default to (since we seem to see the first "convenience store meeting" -- I'm guessing one of those Woodsman is Mike/the Arm/MfAP).

[Ragnell]

I initially took the woodsmen to be hobos just living at the convenience store at the time of the atomic test, but I suppose they could've have been dugpas or dark magicians who were there intentionally to conjure BOB into being, and in the process achieving a kind of immortality for themselves.

I am also curious to see if there are other openings to the Black Lodge outside of Glastonberry Grove, like in Buckhorn SD or Las Vegas.. Stylistically, what would these portals look like without douglas fir saplings? And if there can be direct portals to the Black Lodge / Red Room, then are there such gateways to the White Lodge / Purple Room / Wherever The Giant lives?

I'd suspect another mix of industrial and nature items. Glastonbury Grove is motor oil surrounded by sycamore trees. So back in this thread we were postulating that the White Lodge had nature symbolism and the Black Lodge technological/fire symbolism. Part 8 seems to back the basic concept up with the atomic blast, and the black and white setting has wood-grained floors and vine upholstery. In that case, I'd bet portals to the Otherworld would be a juxtaposition of natural and industrial items because the door can open to either the White Lodge or the Black Lodge.

[AgentEcho]

I'm still not sure this was a flash forward. Cooper spent 25 years outside of Earth but I don't want to discount the idea he somehow ascended to the White Lodge through that difficulty and misery. I'm open to the idea he was there for 25 years, and this is part of his Ascension and he will get there, just not ready to rule out that he hasn't been there already and is recovering from the effort still, or fighting an obstacle so he can progress on his assigned task.

Maybe it's not confirmed that it's a flash forward, but something about the way that Cooper declares with such confidence that he understands the Giants clue indicates we are seeing something that hasn't happened to Cooper yet. It's easier to explain why he would understand if this happens after Cooper is able to learn more about the situation he is dealing with, and perhaps the real world mysteries the show is tackling. Unless Richard and Linda are Lodge denizens, which can't be eliminated as a possibility. But Cooper saying "I understand" was the most Cooper we've seen him to this point, so I think we were shown where he's going rather than where he's been. That makes the most sense narratively as well... Is easier to go back to that moment as the story moves forward than to go back and explain that it was a flashback.

[Ragnell]

I'm still not sure this was a flash forward. Cooper spent 25 years outside of Earth but I don't want to discount the idea he somehow ascended to the White Lodge through that difficulty and misery. I'm open to the idea he was there for 25 years, and this is part of his Ascension and he will get there, just not ready to rule out that he hasn't been there already and is recovering from the effort still, or fighting an obstacle so he can progress on his assigned task.

Maybe it's not confirmed that it's a flash forward, but something about the way that Cooper declares with such confidence that he understands the Giants clue indicates we are seeing something that hasn't happened to Cooper yet. It's easier to explain why he would understand if this happens after Cooper is able to learn more about the situation he is dealing with, and perhaps the real world mysteries the show is tackling. Unless Richard and Linda are Lodge denizens, which can't be eliminated as a possibility. But Cooper saying "I understand" was the most Cooper we've seen him to this point, so I think we were shown where he's going rather than where he's been. That makes the most sense narratively as well... Is easier to go back to that moment as the story moves forward than to go back and explain that it was a flashback.

I do know "I understand" surprised me more than anything else in the first two parts. Like, I do see your logic I'm just not ready to close the door on the other interpretation. I think even though the Cooper we see now in the Dougie storyline is sleepwalking, he didn't spend 25 years in the Lodge without learning a great deal. And his interaction with Laura showed that level of confidence to me, like he knew what questions to ask this time to determine if this really was what he was seeing or another Black Lodge mind-game. I'm totally with you it could be the future, but that one is open until we get to the point where Cooper either remembers or receives these instructions.

[CrockAlley]

- When ??? sees the movie we just watched and sees Bob, he seems to give birth to a golden orb that contains the spirit of Laura Palmer... is "spirit" too on point? Essence maybe. Whatever her face was in the golden orb. This orb is sent down to earth. The next shot is the bug hatching. Is what happened to the orb? If we follow what happens linearly, it should be. So is the spirit of Laura Palmer in the bug? And is the girl Sarah Palmer? She is a curly haired brunette, the young actress bears some resemblance to Grace Zabriskie. Why were the ashen figures who helped Bob/Cooper also interested in this bug finding a host if it was connected to Laura Palmer? Maybe they have more neutral intentions? I guess I haven't got a handle on that yet.

The Experiment vomited out Bob/orb as well as a bunch of eggs. Then we see one of those eggs hatch and the frog/bug come out. I don't think that egg is the Laura/orb. It came from Experiment along with Bob.

As you say, why would the malevolent sooty guys be working in concert with the frog/bug if that was indeed the good-spirited Laura?

[alreadygoneplaces]

I'm guessing one of those Woodsman is Mike/the Arm/MfAP).

I posted this in the episode mega thread, but I feel pretty sure the bug is the first stage of the MfAP/arm/tree/whatever's evolution. Listen to the sounds! Just before it climbs into its host's mouth (aided by the woodsman's radio skillz) it makes the same sound as the tree does in episode 1 or 2 ("I am the arm and I sound like this"). Plus, what other so-called lodge spirit evolves to and from strange forms like that?

Edit- rewatched E1 and it's not the same sound. But my gut still says bug=arm.