When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

[The Gazebo]

There was no way that Lynch and Frost would've tried an already failed method. Granted, they gambled. Dougie, the non-TP scenes etc, are a big gamble. I can't think of anyone that would take one of the most interesting and loved characters just to transform him in a drooling idiot. That takes balls, and I trust it takes an uncanny ability to visualize a bigger picture.
As for the non-TP locations, I also think that it's a positive sign of recognizing a weakness. That is, TP is not central to virtually anyone. If you ask around, many people don't know or remember about TP. Older people might remember it, or at least the name Laura Palmer, but that's it. I trust that Lynch, Frost, and Showtime know that.

I agree that it takes balls to mess with the locations, the most beloved character, as well as the overall mood/vibe/tone/feel of the old show. Only time will tell whether it was a good decision all round. I'm still struggling with the opening third of the show, and it would have been interesting to know the number of new viewers vs. old-timers who have given up.

As for TP not being central to virtually anyone, I'm not quite sure I fully understand your viewpoint. TP is central to the fans - the core demographic. It's not like people who have forgotten or don't know about TP suddenly realize that the show uses other locations, and then gets aboard the train again, is it?

[Agent Earle]

I hear what you're saying, but I just wanted to point out that Cooper, his quirky habits and idiosyncracies ware probably the least of the old show's problems. I think that if the show would've been able to come up with enough compelling mysteries after the Laura Palmer one, audiences would've been happy watching Cooper sip his coffee, nibble his pie and talk into his tape recorder while solving them for an unlimited amount of time - I don't remember anyone ever having any problems with Cooper and his detective work, ever.

I've always wondered why the case needed to be solved so quickly after the reveal. Leland disappearing into the woods (or something similar) for a few episodes could have prolonged the central mystery and maybe added a few twists to it.

Same here. Upon my initial viewing back in '91, I thought - this was after the episode with the revelation of the killer and Maddy's murder - that whatever episodes we have left will deal with the killer evading the police and the police continuing their efforts to identify and apprehend him, with us viewers able to follow the process through the killer's, ie. Leland's eyes, which definitely would've been an interesting experience. I was flabbergasted when the entire thing was over and done with two measly episodes later. I was initially a little frustrated with Leland's saga being finished but I quickly got into the Twin Peaks-y groove again, just letting the series wash over me and seeing where it'll take me. Those overly comedic bits were frustrating as there was just too much time devoted to them, but I enjoyed the main course with Cooper & Co. immensely: the "alien" abduction of Briggs on the fishing trip, Jean Renault's efforts to bring Cooper down, Cooper's suspension from the FBI and his eventually revealed backstory making him seem very vulnerable for the first time since the series started, the sweet and to me very believable Cooper-Annie romance, the whole Windom Earle rigamarole and the gradual inclusion of the Lodges mythology and, of course, the otherworldly finale - I lapped it all up and licked my fingers! This being the time when information about what was really going on in the show's creative room was hard to come by (and with me being in a little European country which knew zilch about habits and standards of the American television universe and things such as ratings, renewals, viewership campaigns etc.), I always thought the way the series played out was planned from the very beginning and that Lynch (that he was the original creator was made to be a big deal even by our media; I don't recall a single time Frost was even mentioned though) was the one plotting out every single minute! Ah, the lost days of youthful ignorance and innocence...

[Rhodes]

I was initially a little frustrated with Leland's saga being finished but I quickly got into the Twin Peaks-y groove again, just letting the series wash over me and seeing where it'll take me. Those overly comedic bits were frustrating as there was just too much time devoted to them, but I enjoyed the main course with Cooper & Co. immensely: the "alien" abduction of Briggs on the fishing trip, Jean Renault's efforts to bring Cooper down, Cooper's suspension from the FBI and his eventually revealed backstory making him seem very vulnerable for the first time since the series started, the sweet and to me very believable Cooper-Annie romance, the whole Windom Earle rigamarole and the gradual inclusion of the Lodges mythology and, of course, the otherworldly finale - I lapped it all up and licked my fingers!

May I ask how old you were at the time?

Your experience sounds like you were young and in love with the show. It's a wonderful thing, but lovers don't always have a very realistic perception of the object of their affection.

[Agent Earle]

I was initially a little frustrated with Leland's saga being finished but I quickly got into the Twin Peaks-y groove again, just letting the series wash over me and seeing where it'll take me. Those overly comedic bits were frustrating as there was just too much time devoted to them, but I enjoyed the main course with Cooper & Co. immensely: the "alien" abduction of Briggs on the fishing trip, Jean Renault's efforts to bring Cooper down, Cooper's suspension from the FBI and his eventually revealed backstory making him seem very vulnerable for the first time since the series started, the sweet and to me very believable Cooper-Annie romance, the whole Windom Earle rigamarole and the gradual inclusion of the Lodges mythology and, of course, the otherworldly finale - I lapped it all up and licked my fingers!

May I ask how old you were at the time?

Your experience sounds like you were young and in love with the show. It's a wonderful thing, but lovers don't always have a very realistic perception of the object of their affection.

10 going on 11. And you can tell me the second season of the show was a piece of s... all you like. I had 26 years worth of that and I'm still very much "in love with the show" as it was back then. I know it's far from perfect, judged objectively, but I wouldn't have it any other way and the only thing I'm regretting is the fact that it didn't get the third season - back then.

[The Gazebo]

I was initially a little frustrated with Leland's saga being finished but I quickly got into the Twin Peaks-y groove again, just letting the series wash over me and seeing where it'll take me. Those overly comedic bits were frustrating as there was just too much time devoted to them, but I enjoyed the main course with Cooper & Co. immensely: the "alien" abduction of Briggs on the fishing trip, Jean Renault's efforts to bring Cooper down, Cooper's suspension from the FBI and his eventually revealed backstory making him seem very vulnerable for the first time since the series started, the sweet and to me very believable Cooper-Annie romance, the whole Windom Earle rigamarole and the gradual inclusion of the Lodges mythology and, of course, the otherworldly finale - I lapped it all up and licked my fingers! This being the time when information about what was really going on in the show's creative room was hard to come by (and with me being in a little European country which knew zilch about habits and standards of the American television universe and things such as ratings, renewals, viewership campaigns etc.), I always thought the way the series played out was planned from the very beginning and that Lynch (that he was the original creator was made to be a big deal even by our media; I don't recall a single time Frost was even mentioned though) was the one plotting out every single minute! Ah, the lost days of youthful ignorance and innocence...

Man, you've pretty much summed up my own viewing experience, unconditional fandom and general knowledge at the time. It was only during the subsequent re-runs that I really noticed - and became annoyed with - all the rubbish inbetween the main course. At the time I was totally baffled by the show's non-renewal.

[yaxomoxay]

As for TP not being central to virtually anyone, I'm not quite sure I fully understand your viewpoint. TP is central to the fans - the core demographic. It's not like people who have forgotten or don't know about TP suddenly realize that the show uses other locations, and then gets aboard the train again, is it?

What I mean is that when TP was originally broadcasted everyone was talking about it. Even non-viewers knew about Laura Palmer. The question, "Who killed Laura Palmer?" was on the mouth of everyone. TP was discussed on news media (then less interested in trivia), magazines, daily newspapers. TP and its mysteries was a big thing.
In 2017 this would've been impossible. Not only that, but after a couple of updating episodes (Coop out of the lodge, what everyone is doing etc) the curiosity would have faded out quickly. There is no mystery that can keep that type of centrality alive without doing something of what we see now (unless Lynch went for a Gilmore Girls' style update).


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[AgentEcho]

One thing about the "Dougie" storyline... whenever people have been speculating about when Coop might wake up after each episode, there have always been these unresolved story threads with the Dougie arch: Ike the Spike, his trouble with the Mitchums, etc. Many of those threads are slowly being resolved. Now all that's left is Janey-E and Sonny Jim, as well as Evil Coop still wanting him dead. I suppose the whole bit with Anthony Sinlcair might need a couple of final beats to close out, but that could probably done with one scene.

With Janey-E the most recent thing established was she is enamored by Coop, at least physically. What would turn that into conflict? If Coop started to wake up and realize that he is not Dougie, Janey-E's husband.

I think we've reached a point in the story where Coop can have turning points in transitioning back to a Cooper with all his faculties, and I'd guess it will happen in the next episode or two, but of course I could be wrong and have been wrong about many things when trying to guess where the story is going so far.

[The Gazebo]

What I mean is that when TP was originally broadcasted everyone was talking about it. Even non-viewers knew about Laura Palmer. The question, "Who killed Laura Palmer?" was on the mouth of everyone. TP was discussed on news media (then less interested in trivia), magazines, daily newspapers. TP and its mysteries was a big thing.
In 2017 this would've been impossible. Not only that, but after a couple of updating episodes (Coop out of the lodge, what everyone is doing etc) the curiosity would have faded out quickly. There is no mystery that can keep that type of centrality alive without doing something of what we see now (unless Lynch went for a Gilmore Girls' style update).

Ok, fair enough. Generally speaking, it's probably difficult for any show these days to become such a huge phenomenon. 34 million US viewers watched the pilot. Few - if any - network drama show have these kind of figures today.

[Ragnell]

One thing about the "Dougie" storyline... whenever people have been speculating about when Coop might wake up after each episode, there have always been these unresolved story threads with the Dougie arch: Ike the Spike, his trouble with the Mitchums, etc. Many of those threads are slowly being resolved. Now all that's left is Janey-E and Sonny Jim, as well as Evil Coop still wanting him dead. I suppose the whole bit with Anthony Sinlcair might need a couple of final beats to close out, but that could probably done with one scene.

With Janey-E the most recent thing established was she is enamored by Coop, at least physically. What would turn that into conflict? If Coop started to wake up and realize that he is not Dougie, Janey-E's husband.

I think we've reached a point in the story where Coop can have turning points in transitioning back to a Cooper with all his faculties, and I'd guess it will happen in the next episode or two, but of course I could be wrong and have been wrong about many things when trying to guess where the story is going so far.

You're right. I was thinking, the addition of the old lady just makes the last ep a bookend on Dougie, but you're right. We've reached the point where Cooper waking up increases the conflict. Had he woken up in 4 or 5 or even 6, he could have readily diffused all the growing problems but now that Janey-E's attached there's some heartache on the horizon.

**And when I say "woken up" I don't mean "SNAP! He is EXACTLY as he was 25 years ago" I mean, he is able to process what is going on around him and make conscious decisions about it, based on his knowledge, skills, and memory. And I do think THAT could come back with a quick wake up, though the emotional damage and maybe some of his communication or attention issues will linger and need to be worked through.

[Mr. Jackpots]

**And when I say "woken up" I don't mean "SNAP! He is EXACTLY as he was 25 years ago" I mean, he is able to process what is going on around him and make conscious decisions about it, based on his knowledge, skills, and memory. And I do think THAT could come back with a quick wake up, though the emotional damage and maybe some of his communication or attention issues will linger and need to be worked through.

This observation has been made before. I wonder what the next step in Cooper's awakening will look like. Because I don't expect him to just SNAP back to original 1991 Cooper either. I think the next arc in the performance may be reminiscent of Rita from MD. Cooper will have his wits and intelligence and intuitiveness as before. But may be in a "I don't know who I am " kind of state. And Janey E will help him find his way back to Twin Peaks

[LostInTheMovies]

Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up!

[The Gazebo]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but could Cooper's mental state actually be an advantage in a new Lodge visit? I mean, the last time he had imperfect courage. Too much thinking and fear.
Now, take a look at how he reacts when Mitchum points the gun at him. Nothing. The attack from Ike the spike. Calm and efficient. "You're lying". Complete disregard for potential fallout.

Is there a chance that EvilCoop can be overcome inside the Lodge simply by turning up in this frame of mind? Maybe a stretch, but who knows.

[Mr. Jackpots]

Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up!

Ya. Here's hoping.

[Ragnell]

Well, I'm thinking next week could be the one.

No particular reason, just that it could happen sometime. Why not next week?

[BigEd]

Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up!

I watched it again, in slow mo, on a really big screen. The ball definitely did NOT hit him in the head. Looked like left shoulder. I think that scene was there to clearly show that, despite coffee, sex, apple pie, defeating a thug, etc. Dougie has not progressed back towards normal at all. He's still a vegetable. I think Mr. C has their mind, and until he's back in the lodge Dougie will just meander through this world in his current state.