When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

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Jasper
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Jasper » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:37 am

The Gazebo wrote:I don't know if this has been discussed before, but could Cooper's mental state actually be an advantage in a new Lodge visit? I mean, the last time he had imperfect courage. Too much thinking and fear.
Now, take a look at how he reacts when Mitchum points the gun at him. Nothing. The attack from Ike the spike. Calm and efficient. "You're lying". Complete disregard for potential fallout.

Is there a chance that EvilCoop can be overcome inside the Lodge simply by turning up in this frame of mind? Maybe a stretch, but who knows.


This has occurred to me as well. Not that I have any idea if it will happen. I don't even know whether Coop will regain his awareness simply by reentering the lodge. The gold Dougie sphere, which could be a part of Coop, is (or was) with Gerard in the black lodge. The shoes (and presumably the pin) are in the "mauve room" (or at least they were). I don't know where we can consider the mauve room to be, although it seems to be on the same ocean (the unified field?) as the home of ???????. Then again, the "mauve room" also seems to be out in space, so thinking about it too literally is surely to misunderstand its nature. (Same goes for the black and white lodges, generally.) The question is whether Coop needs the things from both places (the sphere in the black lodge, the shoes and pin in the mauve room), or just the stuff from one place, or none of it.

Another question is whether the doppelganger needs to be reintegrated with Coop's psyche for him to be whole. Since the black lodge seems to represent the unconscious (at least part of the time, or from one perspective), perhaps killing the doppelganger on earth would send it back to the lodge, and thus to Coop's unconscious, where it belongs, leaving us with a whole Cooper.

Fun to think about, anyway. :lol:
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:56 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up! :twisted:


True!
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LostInTheMovies
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:48 am

BigEd wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up! :twisted:


I watched it again, in slow mo, on a really big screen. The ball definitely did NOT hit him in the head. Looked like left shoulder. I think that scene was there to clearly show that, despite coffee, sex, apple pie, defeating a thug, etc. Dougie has not progressed back towards normal at all. He's still a vegetable. I think Mr. C has their mind, and until he's back in the lodge Dougie will just meander through this world in his current state.


I guess it wasn't entirely clear, but I was completely sarcastic (hence the devilish emoji). I totally agree that Dougie/Coop is not going to "snap out of it." Even if he encounters his shoes and/or runs into Laura (2 things that I think could advance his stories), I expect him to remain in somewhat of a fog. If he moves on to Twin Peaks somehow, it will probably be more in a Mike-directed daze than of his own active volition.

Part of me thinks we will get more scenes of him connecting with Janey-E and Sonny Jim and after this storyline has really landed the pathos that it's begun to suggest, there will be a sudden twist - something like him getting sucked into an electrical socket or even Anthony gunning him down (maybe with that yellowish spirit arising, as we saw for the hit-and-run boy) - and the Vegas story will abruptly end on that note (sort of like how Camilla opens the box and kills that whole part of MD, although I no longer think the Dougie stuff can be categorized as dream/fantasy). This would be frustrating for many, but I think depending how the next few episodes could go, the Vegas plot could be enough of a self-contained, thematically-compelling unit to justify this.

Of course I could easily be wrong as I have been about many other things. But it would feel perversely appropriate for the Dougie/Coop arc to close as startlingly and randomly as it began, leaving us to sort out what it all meant in Cooper's larger journey. I agree it seems to make the most sense for him to be rerouted through the Lodge.

Where I still feel most at sea, honestly, is with Mr. C. Loving the performance but still totally unsure what it *means* that there's an evil Cooper lookalike running around doing bad things to a somewhat obscure end. How does it relate back to Cooper himself? Will there be a classic Lynch reversal forcing us to re-contextualize everything we thought? Is Mr. C something of a red herring, with the real heart of the story elsewhere?

I think pt. 13-16 will be fascinating and contain some high points but don't expect much of anything fundamental to shift until the closing minutes of pt. 16 at the earliest. I'm hoping the two-hour finale almost works as a feature film, the way FWWM closed off Twin Peaks in unexpected fashion, telling its own story than somehow anchored everything we'd seen before. But I also know it might go a more...maybe "conventional" isn't the right word, but a route that's less about changing everything than following through. We're in uncharted territory because Lynch and Frost have never worked together to close of a long story before - even the season 2 finale was more of a tug-of-war than a collaboration, and not necessarily designed to be as conclusive as this *probably* will be.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Redlodge » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:40 pm

The questions is should we ever care at this point ?
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Redlodge » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:40 pm

The questions is should we ever care at this point ?
When Jupiter and Saturn meet , oh what a crop of mummy wheat.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby vawriter » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:48 pm

For Agent Cooper to come out of the fog he's been in, I think it's going to require interacting with someone from his past. I'm hopeful that the FBI will be heading to Las Vegas soon (after getting word from the sheriff's office there about the prints they lifted off of that coffee cup). A face-to-face meeting with Gordon, Diane, and Albert should be enough to bring him around -- or at least start showing some glimmers of his old self.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:50 pm

Redlodge wrote:The questions is should we ever care at this point ?


It depends on what it brings to the story. The event is just a possible trigger to a story that can be good or bad.
You can make a great movie even about someone who is in a coma (see "Reversal of Fortune").


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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:37 pm

vawriter wrote:For Agent Cooper to come out of the fog he's been in, I think it's going to require interacting with someone from his past. I'm hopeful that the FBI will be heading to Las Vegas soon (after getting word from the sheriff's office there about the prints they lifted off of that coffee cup). A face-to-face meeting with Gordon, Diane, and Albert should be enough to bring him around -- or at least start showing some glimmers of his old self.


Janey-E's reaction to this would be priceless. If this is the direction they go, I hope it means we get to see her yell at Gordon Cole.

And then get into an argument with Diane.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:06 pm

Ragnell wrote:
vawriter wrote:For Agent Cooper to come out of the fog he's been in, I think it's going to require interacting with someone from his past. I'm hopeful that the FBI will be heading to Las Vegas soon (after getting word from the sheriff's office there about the prints they lifted off of that coffee cup). A face-to-face meeting with Gordon, Diane, and Albert should be enough to bring him around -- or at least start showing some glimmers of his old self.


Janey-E's reaction to this would be priceless. If this is the direction they go, I hope it means we get to see her yell at Gordon Cole.

And then get into an argument with Diane.


Team tag fistfight!

Gordon/Diane vs. Bushnell/Janey-E




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Re: When do you think will

Postby Ragnell » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:47 pm

yaxomoxay wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
vawriter wrote:For Agent Cooper to come out of the fog he's been in, I think it's going to require interacting with someone from his past. I'm hopeful that the FBI will be heading to Las Vegas soon (after getting word from the sheriff's office there about the prints they lifted off of that coffee cup). A face-to-face meeting with Gordon, Diane, and Albert should be enough to bring him around -- or at least start showing some glimmers of his old self.


Janey-E's reaction to this would be priceless. If this is the direction they go, I hope it means we get to see her yell at Gordon Cole.

And then get into an argument with Diane.


Team tag fistfight!

Gordon/Diane vs. Bushnell/Janey-E


Y'know, if it turns out that Dale doesn't WANT to wake up, and he doesn't WANT to be collected by the FBI... His reaction might lead to this protective circle facing off with Gordon's team. Dale has been through so much. He spent 25 years in the Black Lodge. The Dougie-life, where someone tries to kill him every couple days but aside from that he's got a nice home, a family, an easy job, and he's regularly fed, treated gently, and given clear directions by everyone must be an incredible relief. It's so soothing the Lodge can't actually wake him up. Everything that starts to, he just lulls back to this Endymion state. The FBI showing up and trying aggressively to trigger memories, memories tied to all that trauma might not be a welcome thing.

So, Gordon/Diane/the Fusco Brothers vs Bushnell/Janey-E/Dale/the Mitchems?
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby wAtChLaR » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:07 pm

by the looks of the title for episode 18, i'd say episode 18...thank you DUD
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:44 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:Well, folks, this is it, get ready - clearly that baseball woke Cooper up! :twisted:


That scene made me think of when the sandbag fell on Nadine. I was really hoping there!

Joking aside, I think it's going to take something more than a memory or meeting someone from his past to knock Coop into gear. This isn't just a Nadine saga where he's forgotten who and when he is. He's completely forgotten how to function as a human being - simple tasks like eating, walking, speaking, using the bathroom. That gateway he went through really fried his brain. He's going to have to get electrocuted or shot up with haloperidol before he returns to normal, and I think we have a ways to go.

Maybe Hutch will end up getting a shot off at him and the paramedics will zap Coop back to life.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby boske » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:07 am

I mentioned this in the part 12 thread. Cooper is sleepwalking through life now (cue Santo and Johnny), it is like a Sleeping Beauty fable where evil witch has put a princess to sleep. From how Phillip Gerard has acted, he did not expect Cooper to be in this hypnotic sleep but Phillip cannot wake him up himself. So if this follows the fable, it would take a kiss (from Laura, Audrie, or perhaps Annie?) to wake him up. We'll see how close to truth this ends up being and what Mr C did to cause it all, it has not yet been explained and it should.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:16 am

boske wrote:I mentioned this in the part 12 thread. Cooper is sleepwalking through life now (cue Santo and Johnny), it is like a Sleeping Beauty fable where evil witch has put a princess to sleep. From how Phillip Gerard has acted, he did not expect Cooper to be in this hypnotic sleep but Phillip cannot wake him up himself. So if this follows the fable, it would take a kiss (from Laura, Audrie, or perhaps Annie?) to wake him up. We'll see how close to truth this ends up being and what Mr C did to cause it all, it has not yet been explained and it should.


Smart money's on Laura if that's the case. Laura kissing Cooper has always been significant. The Red Room dream in the original series awakened Cooper to the possibilities of BOB and the Lodge, and she kissed him right before sharing the secret of who killed her.

Laura is "full of secrets." The 25 years later repeat had her kiss him, then share a secret. Prior to that, Cooper didn't seem to BELIEVE her when she said he could leave. (Though he had a huhe reaction to seeing her walk in.)

We could be waiting on shoes, 2:53 October 1st, seeing a friend, haliperadol or a tragedy, sure. But if we're waiting on a kiss its from Laura.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby boske » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:27 am

It is probably Laura. Could it be Candie though?

That whole restaurant scene has grown on me so much, I now find it mesmerizing, it is like a highlight of the season for me. It must be Angelo's music (it strikes the similar feelings/chords as Albinoni's Adagio), but there is more to it. If we ran a black and white filter on it, it'd be almost like the ??????? scenes. I have found that it gets a lot of folks emotional, it is not strictly Dougie, there is something intangible yet about Candie. And to know they filmed the scene without music is even more telling.

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