When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

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Novalis
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Novalis » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:37 pm

Are we all done?

Chet won't talk about the blue rose, Jeffries won't talk about Judy, and Hawk won't talk about the black space hopper.

Settled.

Back on topic: I'm increasingly of the opinion that Dougie won't be 'snapping' back to old Cooper at any conceivable point in his future. He's simply been through too much, been thoroughly dismantled, and reassembly will only ever be partial. His memories will all return, sure, but he'll not be the Coop of old; he'll be something new. I'm saying this now because I don't really want Coop back as he was -- that would be darn silly after a journey like this. He's spent the best part of three decades outside the human world, and is also much older now. Everyone he knew has also changed. Getting back in his old shoes won't erase all that.

If this long detour has taught us anything so far, it's that Dougie's childlike innocence and utter naivety about the world is having beneficent ripples and effects on everyone around him whereas the old Coop -- fast-talking, quick-witted, dextrous agent that he was -- remained powerless to prevent the tide of evil that washed over Twin Peaks. I also appreciate the way that Lynch has given us a protagonist completely at odds with the Sherlock or House tradition of know-it-all sleuths. A man without prestige for an anti-prestige-tv show. With that realisation, my hankering for the 1990s Dale Cooper has petered out. Someone else will take his place.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Jonah
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Jonah » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:45 pm

He definitely won't be the Cooper of the original series again, but the question is what will he become - darker? lighter?
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Jonah
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Jonah » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:49 pm

I mean, he'll never be the Cooper we knew. He's been through too much. But Dougie seems like a complete reset, much more innocent and child-like than even old Cooper at his most endearing. He might turn harder, edgier when/if he gets his memories back. We've seen him with a bit of a hard edge in the original series (saying to Bobby "you never loved her anyway" about Laura in the pilot, his deeply painful past involving Caroline, etc.). I really don't know how this will play out. But I don't think he can stay Dougie right up until the very end. I just don't see how that could work. And, come to think of it, even as Dougie, there is a hard edge there too! Think about when he said "he's lying" in the office, or how quickly he tackled Ike the Spike. So there is a balance of innocence and child-like wonder in this new Coop - and a harder edge too. Just like in the original series. So, hmmm, I don't know. Maybe he is the Cooper we always knew - but we're just seeing different extremes of his character.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:34 pm

Jonah wrote:He definitely won't be the Cooper of the original series again, but the question is what will he become - darker? lighter?


I wonder what Tibetan mysticism would suggest.
I think he's going to be a much darker, very confused person.


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Mr. Jackpots
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:33 pm

Is DougieCoop starting to grow on those who have been skeptical and impatient about his development?

Will those people cry when Dale Cooper wakes up and DougieCoop is no more?
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby baxter » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:22 pm

Not to that extent, but I've finally settled into Dougie being the main event and not an interminable prelude. Cooper suddenly emerging as an FBI agent would now feel very off to me.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Garmonbozia1996 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:20 am

From my Observations of the Series pattern, there are some slight parallels to main event in the original show Mr C getting shot in the exact same place our Coop got shot, the episode that featured Gersten Hayward albeit short appearance ended with a piano solo over the credits like Season 2 episode 1 did (this time however, not by her). I'm sure there are more but i cant think of them right now.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make what if there is that similarity stretches to how the narrative hook is played out, 'Who killed Laura Palmer' was resolved at the end of episode 14 moving on to episodes 15 and 16 which ended that respective ark, until its themes, imagery and characters where brought up again, these episodes greatly shifted focus to Leland/Bob leaving the other characters sub plots and even the police investigation in the background, I don't think we are likely to get our Cooper back until at least midway through episode 16 as there is still some Dougie plot to resolve, police investigation, Tony most likely being the next to attempt murder on coop and Hutch and Chantelle (mr Todd also) as well as resolution to Janey-E and Sonny Jim. I think the very brief flashes of Cooper we have seen have shook up the Dougie storyline (as someone on here has already said sorry i forget who) "He's lying" set the awareness of corruption in lucky 7 and defending Janey-E and himself from Ike got him on the news. I truthfully think if his return was imminent it would ruin the pacing of the vegas storyline and it would be far more rewarding if this what i presume to be narrative hook of the return to be resolved in very similar manor the original narrative hook to keep the series in tune with alluding to past events and creating a large narrative shift in the last 2 and a half episodes.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Redlodge » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:00 am

Never
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby LateReg » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:25 am

Garmonbozia1996 wrote:From my Observations of the Series pattern, there are some slight parallels to main event in the original show Mr C getting shot in the exact same place our Coop got shot, the episode that featured Gersten Hayward albeit short appearance ended with a piano solo over the credits like Season 2 episode 1 did (this time however, not by her). I'm sure there are more but i cant think of them right now.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make what if there is that similarity stretches to how the narrative hook is played out, 'Who killed Laura Palmer' was resolved at the end of episode 14 moving on to episodes 15 and 16 which ended that respective ark, until its themes, imagery and characters where brought up again, these episodes greatly shifted focus to Leland/Bob leaving the other characters sub plots and even the police investigation in the background, I don't think we are likely to get our Cooper back until at least midway through episode 16 as there is still some Dougie plot to resolve, police investigation, Tony most likely being the next to attempt murder on coop and Hutch and Chantelle (mr Todd also) as well as resolution to Janey-E and Sonny Jim. I think the very brief flashes of Cooper we have seen have shook up the Dougie storyline (as someone on here has already said sorry i forget who) "He's lying" set the awareness of corruption in lucky 7 and defending Janey-E and himself from Ike got him on the news. I truthfully think if his return was imminent it would ruin the pacing of the vegas storyline and it would be far more rewarding if this what i presume to be narrative hook of the return to be resolved in very similar manor the original narrative hook to keep the series in tune with alluding to past events and creating a large narrative shift in the last 2 and a half episodes.


That's all very true and well said. I do think there are a few wild cards here, though.

1. When The Return wants to, it can accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time. Such as in Part 7, which seemed to come out of nowhere at the time and accelerated the plot greatly.

2. If something happens with the convergence of storylines at 2:53 on some day and Cooper gets sucked back into the Lodge, then all bets are off. The Lodge could play a huge factor. He could recover whatever he's missing at that point and emerge with awareness that he's Cooper, albeit an older one who will still find the world a strange and changed place. If this happens, then it could mean that people like Janey-E are left stranded, wondering what the hell happened to her Dougie. The resolution of her storyline might come later. Or she could be shot dead in a chaotic moment of convergence, which would be another way of abruptly speeding along the Vegas stuff in a realistic and meaningful way. In fact, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but perhaps what really needs to happen to snap Cooper out of it is for Janey-E to be put in grave danger or to die, since that would represent the third woman in his life (Caroline/Annie) that he has failed to protect. How would that affect him?

3. The Return has been utterly unpredictable the entire time. Now that basically 90% of the people watching have resigned themselves to thinking that Cooper won't return until the final few parts, perhaps he will just suddenly return now that we are settled in and least expect it.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby pinballmars » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:04 am

Something about the ending of ep. 11 felt to me like a send-off for "Dougie". It was such a happy scene. Everyone wins. Even the gangsters win. Bushnell Mullins has been helped by Dougie. The woman from the casino shows up to thank Mr. Jackpots. There's the sad piano music adding a bittersweet touch. We got a summary this hour of the good that Dougie has done.

And now on to the next phase.

We've seen three very different assassins try to kill Cooper (hip-hop background music woman and her thugs, Ike the Spike, the Mitchums) and all attempts were thwarted in different ways. It feels like that's enough of that.

Throw in the Vegas detectives who have Cooper's prints and DNA and I think the "Dougie" saga is about to take a major turn.

My guess: Cooper regains his senses sometime in the next two episodes.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Garmonbozia1996 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:30 am

[/quote]That's all very true and well said. I do think there are a few wild cards here, though.

1. When The Return wants to, it can accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time. Such as in Part 7, which seemed to come out of nowhere at the time and accelerated the plot greatly.

2. If something happens with the convergence of storylines at 2:53 on some day and Cooper gets sucked back into the Lodge, then all bets are off. The Lodge could play a huge factor. He could recover whatever he's missing at that point and emerge with awareness that he's Cooper, albeit an older one who will still find the world a strange and changed place. If this happens, then it could mean that people like Janey-E are left stranded, wondering what the hell happened to her Dougie. The resolution of her storyline might come later. Or she could be shot dead in a chaotic moment of convergence, which would be another way of abruptly speeding along the Vegas stuff in a realistic and meaningful way. In fact, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but perhaps what really needs to happen to snap Cooper out of it is for Janey-E to be put in grave danger or to die, since that would represent the third woman in his life (Caroline/Annie) that he has failed to protect. How would that affect him?

3. The Return has been utterly unpredictable the entire time. Now that basically 90% of the people watching have resigned themselves to thinking that Cooper won't return until the final few parts, perhaps he will just suddenly return now that we are settled in and least expect it.[/quote]

I'm kind off new to the whole quoting others thing, so sorry about that. Oh i couldn't agree with you more, best we can do as an audience is throw out theory and assumptions based on our own expectations for the show and thats one of the things I love about the new season.

Yes episode 7,9 and more recently episode 11 accomplished this for me, but look at things this way, we haven't seen Mr C since episode 9 narrative progress for him seems currently held or in the assassination attempts on Coop, this could easily happen with Coop, every story he had out of the way and you get it eluded that he comes to his senses say in episode 13 then we don't see him again till episode 15 or 16 focusing on Mr C's as Kyles role for a few episodes, there could still be some connection to Dougie again elsewhere say the Buckhorn plot and the Wedding ring or something Twin Peaks related. all I'm saying is the way the narrative is moved onwards and delayed on occasion for the sake of developing another.

Yes of course, who knows what Lynch and Frost have got going on , I'm a 100 percent certain that the lodges,red room, zone, convenience store and the location in lauras FWWM painting will play a role. I had a theory that while the Mitchum brothers cherry pie stuff was happening that Chantel and Hutch's Double whammy in Vegas was Janey-E and Sonny-Jim (similar as you just said to Annie's fate and Caroline death) , but more realistically its Mr Todd and Coop. I have very little doubts that the cooper we get back won't be the same character from the original series and that might annoy people, but it is really just the characters development.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Venus » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:55 am

Mr. Jackpots wrote:Is DougieCoop starting to grow on those who have been skeptical and impatient about his development?

Will those people cry when Dale Cooper wakes up and DougieCoop is no more?


No to both questions for me.
When Jupiter and Saturn meet...
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:33 pm

So who else thinks we'll hear "Dance of the Dream Man" when Cooper is finally in full control of himself? That piece always struck me as more about Cooper than MFAP.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby anthoto1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:45 pm

Agree with what someone said in the disappointed group : I think the Dougie arc may be a metaphor of a child slowly growing up and becoming a man.

Early in the season, we see him almost learning how to walk, play, then eat his first meal on his own. In the last two episodes, he discovers sex (what a typical teenager would do around age 16/17) and drink alcohol (something you're not supposed to do before the legal majority age). He's turning into an adult at this point and I think the rumour about him waking up during a particular episode are probably true.
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Re: When do you think will "Dougie" snap back to being Cooper? (Spoilers)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:54 pm

anthoto1 wrote:Agree with what someone said in the disappointed group : I think the Dougie arc may be a metaphor of a child slowly growing up and becoming a man.

Early in the season, we see him almost learning how to walk, play, then eat his first meal on his own. In the last two episodes, he discovers sex (what a typical teenager would do around age 16/17) and drink alcohol (something you're not supposed to do before the legal majority age). He's turning into an adult at this point and I think the rumour about him waking up during a particular episode are probably true.

You forgot about the potty training. :lol:

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