POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

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In your opinion, what is the nature of Audrey’s situation in Part 12?

Poll ended at Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:37 am

She is in the “real” world of Twin Peaks.
57
38%
She is in a coma, and the scene takes place in her head.
29
19%
She is not in a coma, but she is dreaming.
2
1%
She is not in a coma or dreaming, but experiencing a psychological delusion.
40
26%
She is trapped in the Black Lodge.
7
5%
Audrey and Charlie are acting in or rehearsing for a movie or play (not Twin Peaks)
5
3%
Other (please explain in thread)
12
8%
 
Total votes: 152
Hester Prynne
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:59 pm

I have a feeling that last beautiful dance may have been a farewell and send off to the character we know and love as Audrey. She is either someone else, mentally or physically beyond the point of return, or sadly may have already died.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:07 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I still think Charlie was Audrey, and she was arguing with herself, her methodical, logical self. She runs to him and pleads, "get me out of here" face to face, and then Bam! She's face to face with reality staring in the mirror.

Now I don't think she's awake in the sense that she can go open a door and tell people, Hey I'm out of my coma. But instead she's awake to the fact she was living in a false reality. Much like Diane's Tulpa was having a similar awakening. But I don't think they're going to repeat the tulpa state with Audrey, Dougie and Diane are enough. I think her body is still in the coma (and her seeing herself in the mirror is what she really looks like now)... But her mind and soul are trapped somewhere else.

I think Lynch and Frost are very protective of their original characters, and for some reason my instinct tells me we're only supposed to be worried she is a tulpa.


Yeah, I don't think it'll go the tulpa route. I think, given the very last scene of this last episode, we're supposed to be worried about Audrey and care about her safety, and Coop's return will signal a rescue or at least shine light on the situation. It reminded me of cliffhangers from when she was in One-Eyed Jack's.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:13 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:I have a feeling that last beautiful dance may have been a farewell and send off to the character we know and love as Audrey. She is either someone else, mentally or physically beyond the point of return, or sadly may have already died.


Yeah, maybe. I dunno though. Like I said in my last post, I think they're encouraging the audience to be concerned about Audrey (her last couple scenes with Charlie were especially sad and tragic-seeming) and most recently used an old-fashioned cliffhanger: her hero (who is fully back in the form she, and we, know and love) is coming back to town and is sure to learn about her supernatural situation (if he doesn't already) and may end up rescuing her. It feels like a throwback to the original series in a way. It'd also redeem Coop of his evil twin's sins, which I think will be a big focus these last two episodes.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:29 pm

Yeah, Lynch deep down is a big softee. Cooper returning last night basically told us everything is going to be fine, he's got this under control.

We've already had the dramatic arc of being worried and disappointed with how Audrey and her life turned out in the fake domestic scenes. And now a cliffhanger... Where we've seen the possible consequences of someone in Audrey's position (Diane, Dougie) and we're supposed to be worried. Otherwise why end on a cliffhanger? (And the abrupt end was definitely treated as a cliffhanger and not just a bullet point to showing us where she ended up.)

They've gone out of their way to preserve the originals, even Sheriff Harry Truman. The Log Lady was the only one who met a sad fate, and that was real life consequences...and then was treated as lovingly as possible.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Framed_Angel
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:59 pm

Thinking about some of Charlie's words to Audrey. "I take very good care of you. You've always said so." Or: "Do you want me to end your story too?"
Suppose for a moment this is what a sort of drug would 'say' to you as you were trying to come off it, quit it. An anti-depressant. A medication you'd come to rely on to combat your debilitating symptoms, and yet you develop an awareness even in the throes of the drug that an existence outside it could be reached for. But you initially latched on to it for an escape ("take good care of you") -- even after being warned, possibly, about side effects and risks such as suicide ("end your story"). How many times have we learned about suicide victims this season? How many other victims suffering from dependence on drugs?

The last time we'd seen them, in Part 15, Audrey was fighting him, actually attacking Charlie. Because part 16 brought some comments about Richard's electrocution on the rock like Old Testament's tale of Abraham bringing his son to be slaughtered on a rock, I thought of another Old testament passage from the following generation of Abraham's, of Jacob when he wrestles with an angel, and wins.**

Seeing Audrey and Charlie arrive at the Roadhouse indicated to me she'd won the wrestling match, at least in her head. Or argument, as she speculated what the outcome might be to let go of a dosage or such and tentatively see "what if?"... It resounds of a self-argument IMO. When the dependence on a substance takes on its own 'voices' and then those voices assume a persona. This is as close as I can fathom in making sense of Audrey's dilemma. She says "I want to [go out] and yet I don't want to." And, drugs or being drugged has been a recurrent reference. Thinking how Sarah was drugged continually by Leland so he/ BOB could achieve his aims. Sarah "wakes up" to an ugly reality, the loss of her child then of her husband while processing what her husband did to her child. Any role a medication has in numbing Audrey to the reality of her rape/ impregnation would require a powerful urgent persistent suspicion over time that she is missing something, and the need to know could overcome the dependency if her will power is strong enough.

I hope this makes sense. It's just a theory!

** of course Jacob ended up w/ a permanent limp when the angel threw his hip out of joint, and made him change his name. But the Isaac/ rock analogy was flawed too; Isaac didn't lose his life, nor did I get the impression EvilCoop had in mind to execute his son deliberately
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nonemoreblack
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby nonemoreblack » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:25 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:I still think Charlie was Audrey, and she was arguing with herself, her methodical, logical self. She runs to him and pleads, "get me out of here" face to face, and then Bam! She's face to face with reality staring in the mirror.

Now I don't think she's awake in the sense that she can go open a door and tell people, Hey I'm out of my coma. But instead she's awake to the fact she was living in a false reality. Much like Diane's Tulpa was having a similar awakening. But I don't think they're going to repeat the tulpa state with Audrey, Dougie and Diane are enough. I think her body is still in the coma (and her seeing herself in the mirror is what she really looks like now)... But her mind and soul are trapped somewhere else.

I think Lynch and Frost are very protective of their original characters, and for some reason my instinct tells me we're only supposed to be worried she is a tulpa.


Yeah, I don't think it'll go the tulpa route. I think, given the very last scene of this last episode, we're supposed to be worried about Audrey and care about her safety, and Coop's return will signal a rescue or at least shine light on the situation. It reminded me of cliffhangers from when she was in One-Eyed Jack's.


Reminds me of when the Fireman pointed out to Cooper that he'd forgotten something (Audrey's letter). I feel like it would make sense if Audrey was the ringing sound in the Great Northern Hotel since we now know that sound is associated with the Lodges, and her music was played backwards in the credits. However, that doesn't explain how she'd know about events going on at the Roadhouse. I think she's in some kind of purgatory, but I'm honestly very confused. haha
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:15 am

wxray wrote:
Novalis wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:The two men at the Roadhouse were credited as "Richard Bucher - Man Hit with Bottle" and "Scott Cameron - Throwing Man", so it wasn't Bobby or anyone else we know. However, I thought the attacker called the other man "Barney" (does anyone have subtitles for the episode and can confirm this?). In Part 1, Marjorie Green said the manager of the house where Ruth Davenport lived was called Barney and she said about him "Barney's not here. He's a funny one, that Barney. He's in the hospital, not the regular hospital." After the other nuthouse references, it's possible that Audrey is really in a mental institution with all those mentioned characters.


I thought he said Barney too. Well-spotted on where that name has cropped up before, I'd forgotten what the forgetful woman next to Ruth's had said to the police. I like the idea that the booth conversations in the roadhouse and all the names mentioned are dream / hallucination sequences that integrate people she's in hospital with or conversations she's overheard;

But it isn't "Barney". It is "Monique."

The man is yelling his wife's name, and then yells at the man he hits. Very similar to what happened with James!
monique.JPG

The subtitles have been wrong before, though.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby whoisalhedges » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:08 am

sylvia_north wrote:
laughingpinecone's (are you there?) Schrodinger's Audrey theory still works I think for now even with the Billy leaping 6 feet in the air conversation.

That was me (not saying I'm the only one, but pretty sure I brought it up in this thread), and I'm a sticking by it.

"Sticking by it" doesn't mean that I aver positively that it's the case; but maybe that it is and isn't? ;) To wit, even if we're shown other facts next Sunday, that doesn't means that Schrödinger's Audrey didn't exist in a state of equal potential today. :lol:

The Roadhouse scene was interesting, and stands as a possible positional determination of Audrey - but of course, we are shown that she's not really there; or at least (drum roll) she's also somewhere else....

Richard's death(?) doesn't clarify anything. His existence was predicated on Audrey surviving the bank vault explosion. If he doesn't exist, maybe Mr. C climbs that rock and gets zapped into non-exist-ence. What if Mr. C succeeds in murdering Cooper, and Audrey somehow gains knowledge that it was only Richard taking the jolt in his stead that allowed this regrettable scene to play out? What if she has the chance to pay back her rescue at One Eyed Jack's and save her Special Agent once and for all - by answering the question of her own superposition? She died a quarter-century ago, Richard never exists, Cooper (and that little boy at Sparkwood and 21) gets to live out his days.

I'm not predicting this. I think it's extremely unlikely that the above scene will play out. But it remains a possibility; as we have yet to see any main-continuity real-life interaction between Audrey and anyone other than Charlie (whom we've also never seen interacting with anyone else - only heard one side of phone convo with "Tina").
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby wxray » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:46 am

Framed_Angel wrote:Thinking about some of Charlie's words to Audrey. "I take very good care of you. You've always said so." Or: "Do you want me to end your story too?"
Suppose for a moment this is what a sort of drug would 'say' to you as you were trying to come off it, quit it. An anti-depressant. A medication you'd come to rely on to combat your debilitating symptoms, and yet you develop an awareness even in the throes of the drug that an existence outside it could be reached for. But you initially latched on to it for an escape ("take good care of you") -- even after being warned, possibly, about side effects and risks such as suicide ("end your story"). How many times have we learned about suicide victims this season? How many other victims suffering from dependence on drugs?

The last time we'd seen them, in Part 15, Audrey was fighting him, actually attacking Charlie. Because part 16 brought some comments about Richard's electrocution on the rock like Old Testament's tale of Abraham bringing his son to be slaughtered on a rock, I thought of another Old testament passage from the following generation of Abraham's, of Jacob when he wrestles with an angel, and wins.**

Seeing Audrey and Charlie arrive at the Roadhouse indicated to me she'd won the wrestling match, at least in her head. Or argument, as she speculated what the outcome might be to let go of a dosage or such and tentatively see "what if?"... It resounds of a self-argument IMO. When the dependence on a substance takes on its own 'voices' and then those voices assume a persona. This is as close as I can fathom in making sense of Audrey's dilemma. She says "I want to [go out] and yet I don't want to." And, drugs or being drugged has been a recurrent reference. Thinking how Sarah was drugged continually by Leland so he/ BOB could achieve his aims. Sarah "wakes up" to an ugly reality, the loss of her child then of her husband while processing what her husband did to her child. Any role a medication has in numbing Audrey to the reality of her rape/ impregnation would require a powerful urgent persistent suspicion over time that she is missing something, and the need to know could overcome the dependency if her will power is strong enough.

I hope this makes sense. It's just a theory!

** of course Jacob ended up w/ a permanent limp when the angel threw his hip out of joint, and made him change his name. But the Isaac/ rock analogy was flawed too; Isaac didn't lose his life, nor did I get the impression EvilCoop had in mind to execute his son deliberately


I'd like the idea of Audrey being in a tough rehab instead of a 25 year coma. I'm wondering if the Janey-E/Bushnell discussion about comas was a misdirection.

I wouldn't blame Audrey for getting on drugs after dealing with Richard. Also, she was an unwilling addict before, and once an addict, the chance of going down the rabbit hole is much higher.

Finally, Charlie even says: "If I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are on drugs."
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 pm

One of my first theories after Part 12 was that Audrey is trapped in the Lodge, convenience store or a similar place. Now in Part 16, after Audrey looked into the mirror, the music was played backwards, which is usually connected to the Black Lodge. Maybe she really is in the Lodge or she is a tulpa like Diane :(
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Framed_Angel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:15 pm

Dreamy Audrey wrote:One of my first theories after Part 12 was that Audrey is trapped in the Lodge, convenience store or a similar place. Now in Part 16, after Audrey looked into the mirror, the music was played backwards, which is usually connected to the Black Lodge. Maybe she really is in the Lodge or she is a tulpa like Diane :(
That's occurred to me too, mainly from the similarity of certain things each of them said. Didn't we hear Diane go at one point: "I'm ... not me!!!"? Like Audrey in Part 13 "[I feel] like I'm somewhere else** and somebody else!"
**similar to Diane's stating she's at 'the sheriff's station'~
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Gabriel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:25 pm

My guess: Audrey's dreams and delusions due to her post-explosion mental breakdown are being used to create the reality in which this entire season is taking place. If Audrey awakens, probably via Coop's return, reality will shift again.

I'm wondering if this is a sort of Donnie Darko/alt-universe situation...
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Framed_Angel wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:One of my first theories after Part 12 was that Audrey is trapped in the Lodge, convenience store or a similar place. Now in Part 16, after Audrey looked into the mirror, the music was played backwards, which is usually connected to the Black Lodge. Maybe she really is in the Lodge or she is a tulpa like Diane :(
That's occurred to me too, mainly from the similarity of certain things each of them said. Didn't we hear Diane go at one point: "I'm ... not me!!!"? Like Audrey in Part 13 "[I feel] like I'm somewhere else** and somebody else!"
**similar to Diane's stating she's at 'the sheriff's station'~

Yes, Audrey says: "I feel like I'm somewhere else. [...] Like I'm somewhere else and - and like I'm somebody else. [...] I'm not sure who I am, but I'm not me." and Diane said "I'm not me" several times. Diane also said "I'm in the Sheriff's station", which is somewhere else. And Audrey's first scene in Part 12 was immediately followed by a scene of Diane.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Audrey Horne » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:36 pm

I think the fact that they had Diane say the line and then show that she is a tulpa is strong evidence that Audrey is not one -it was dramatically structured for us to bridge Diane's line with Audrey's earlier one - "I'm not me." And be worried. Audrey was in the near exact same situation as Diane - so now we're supposed to be worried about a beloved character.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:55 pm

wxray wrote:
Framed_Angel wrote:Thinking about some of Charlie's words to Audrey. "I take very good care of you. You've always said so." Or: "Do you want me to end your story too?"
Suppose for a moment this is what a sort of drug would 'say' to you as you were trying to come off it, quit it. An anti-depressant. A medication you'd come to rely on to combat your debilitating symptoms, and yet you develop an awareness even in the throes of the drug that an existence outside it could be reached for. But you initially latched on to it for an escape ("take good care of you") -- even after being warned, possibly, about side effects and risks such as suicide ("end your story"). How many times have we learned about suicide victims this season? How many other victims suffering from dependence on drugs?

The last time we'd seen them, in Part 15, Audrey was fighting him, actually attacking Charlie. Because part 16 brought some comments about Richard's electrocution on the rock like Old Testament's tale of Abraham bringing his son to be slaughtered on a rock, I thought of another Old testament passage from the following generation of Abraham's, of Jacob when he wrestles with an angel, and wins.**

Seeing Audrey and Charlie arrive at the Roadhouse indicated to me she'd won the wrestling match, at least in her head. Or argument, as she speculated what the outcome might be to let go of a dosage or such and tentatively see "what if?"... It resounds of a self-argument IMO. When the dependence on a substance takes on its own 'voices' and then those voices assume a persona. This is as close as I can fathom in making sense of Audrey's dilemma. She says "I want to [go out] and yet I don't want to." And, drugs or being drugged has been a recurrent reference. Thinking how Sarah was drugged continually by Leland so he/ BOB could achieve his aims. Sarah "wakes up" to an ugly reality, the loss of her child then of her husband while processing what her husband did to her child. Any role a medication has in numbing Audrey to the reality of her rape/ impregnation would require a powerful urgent persistent suspicion over time that she is missing something, and the need to know could overcome the dependency if her will power is strong enough.

I hope this makes sense. It's just a theory!

** of course Jacob ended up w/ a permanent limp when the angel threw his hip out of joint, and made him change his name. But the Isaac/ rock analogy was flawed too; Isaac didn't lose his life, nor did I get the impression EvilCoop had in mind to execute his son deliberately


I'd like the idea of Audrey being in a tough rehab instead of a 25 year coma. I'm wondering if the Janey-E/Bushnell discussion about comas was a misdirection.


Yeah. Frost and Lynch absolutely anticipated the audience theorising she's in a coma at this point and the Janey/Bushnell discussion was totally on the nose. Audrey's status is more supernatural, given the Diane parallels.

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