POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie

In your opinion, what is the nature of Audrey’s situation in Part 12?

Poll ended at Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:37 am

She is in the “real” world of Twin Peaks.
57
38%
She is in a coma, and the scene takes place in her head.
29
19%
She is not in a coma, but she is dreaming.
2
1%
She is not in a coma or dreaming, but experiencing a psychological delusion.
40
26%
She is trapped in the Black Lodge.
7
5%
Audrey and Charlie are acting in or rehearsing for a movie or play (not Twin Peaks)
5
3%
Other (please explain in thread)
12
8%
 
Total votes: 152
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:49 pm

Ragnell wrote:Maybe the farmer Andy talked to was Chuck. I could swear Andy asked if it was his truck, and then said "If that's not your truck, you have to tell me whose it is."

No, this is what they say:
Andy: "But that's your truck."
Farmer: "I know it's my truck. I can't talk to you about this here. I told you. Please go away."
Andy: "But if you weren't driving, I need to know who was."


I just noticed that the newscaster in Part 10 is called Paul. When Charlie told Audrey he wanted to run her papers by his lawyer, she said: "Maybe I should run them by Paul. Maybe I should have Paul come give you a visit." It seems unlikely it's the same character because to me it seemed that the Paul Audrey was referring to was her lawyer. However, if there are two different Pauls, it's also possible that there are two different Billys and that her Billy is not connected to the Billy who was mentioned in the Double R.

But if there is a connection, Audrey would also indirectly be connected to the Las Vegas plot: to the Mitchums, Candies, Ike and DougieCoop and Janey-E, who were all in Paul's scene. I'd find her connection to this Paul guy strange since the newscaster and the whole show seemed so fake and a bit ridiculous, how would he be any help with a serious matter like her papers? Could a connection between them be a clue that Audrey's scene wasn't real, either?

Or maybe, if the coma/dream theory turns out to be true, the TV with Paul's show was on in her room and she unconsciously picked up his name and used it in her dream world. Then Tina in Audrey's world could actually be Sheena, the female newscaster with Paul, and Audrey misheard her name. In that case, the other names in her dream (Charlie, Chuck, Billy) could also be taken from the real world.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Low Entropy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:59 pm

I assume all of season 3, including this scene, is a dream, but likely not by Audrey. Maybe by Cooper, or maybe it won't ever be revealed.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Ragnell » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:44 pm

AudreyHorne wrote:
Ragnell wrote:Maybe the farmer Andy talked to was Chuck. I could swear Andy asked if it was his truck, and then said "If that's not your truck, you have to tell me whose it is."

No, this is what they say:
Andy: "But that's your truck."
Farmer: "I know it's my truck. I can't talk to you about this here. I told you. Please go away."
Andy: "But if you weren't driving, I need to know who was."


I just noticed that the newscaster in Part 10 is called Paul. When Charlie told Audrey he wanted to run her papers by his lawyer, she said: "Maybe I should run them by Paul. Maybe I should have Paul come give you a visit." It seems unlikely it's the same character because to me it seemed that the Paul Audrey was referring to was her lawyer. However, if there are two different Pauls, it's also possible that there are two different Billys and that her Billy is not connected to the Billy who was mentioned in the Double R.

But if there is a connection, Audrey would also indirectly be connected to the Las Vegas plot: to the Mitchums, Candies, Ike and DougieCoop and Janey-E, who were all in Paul's scene. I'd find her connection to this Paul guy strange since the newscaster and the whole show seemed so fake and a bit ridiculous, how would he be any help with a serious matter like her papers? Could a connection between them be a clue that Audrey's scene wasn't real, either?

Or maybe, if the coma/dream theory turns out to be true, the TV with Paul's show was on in her room and she unconsciously picked up his name and used it in her dream world. Then Tina in Audrey's world could actually be Sheena, the female newscaster with Paul, and Audrey misheard her name. In that case, the other names in her dream (Charlie, Chuck, Billy) could also be taken from the real world.


Wait, didn't Paul go to the North Pole?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby BigEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:24 pm

waferwhitemilk wrote:People can be so delusional. David Lynch pissed on the corpse of Audrey Horne (re: the nature of Audrey's situation). He defiled her sublime memory as the pure hearted angel of the original series. He has no ideas left, no original ideas left and he views older women as either nags or invisible after the age of forty. He should be ashamed and people who support this should be ashamed too!!!

Wrong thread.


Was there ever any suggestion within the show that Richard had stole that truck? I thought he was just using it because his piece-o-crap Saturn was being repaired at Big Ed's Gas Farm.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:44 pm

I always thought that it was Richard's truck and that he might have stolen the car he later used (could have been Jerry's car which was stolen). Richard's truck and the farmer's truck look the same but I couldn't make out the farmer's license plate, so we can't be 100% sure. But you're right, the farmer didn't say his truck was stolen, only that he wasn't the one who was driving. Richard could have borrowed or rented it.

I found another Billy: in Part 3 one of the troopers from the South Dakota Highway Control who find DoppelCoop after his car accident is called Billy by his colleague. He's the one who gets sick when he finds DoppelCoop.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby BigEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:54 pm

Good idea for a poll Jasper. 8)

I'm really surprised that 59% (currently) think Audrey is in the real world. I'm not saying they are wrong; but when somebody posted the coma theory it just gave me that ah-ha moment. :idea:

We'll soon know the real story, unless of course we won't. :?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby tresojos » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:21 pm

dp
Last edited by tresojos on Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby redroom » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:24 pm

DamnFineCreamedCorn wrote:A coma. Her school-age reference to Charlie's "homework," the rotary phone, the lack of a computer, the aged set, her total absence from Richard's story, her dream and Charlie's sleepiness.... IMO it's an elegant mirror of Dale's removal from the world for 25 years.

The good Audrey is in a bad dream and she can't leave. Write it on the Internet.


This!

There are just too many details, like the rotary phone, that suggest being trapped somewhere or in an alternative consciousness. And there would be a certain logic in both Cooper and Audrey being stuck in their own respective hells since the end of season 2.

Also of interest:

Audrey talks about a missing man who she's involved with and is desperate to find. (This theme runs through the whole show, obvs). She talks of a dream she had about him. Various other people (Chuck, Tina etc) are involved but she dislikes or doesn't trust them.

the Following scene is sort of mirror of what comes before...

Two ladies in the Roadhouse talks about a missing woman (well, a woman who was supposed to be there but is strangely absent). This woman has been involved with a man. The women say that this woman dreams of this man. The man, and someone else, are untrustworthy. (Interestingly, this woman is supposed to be off her medication. Which I'm not quite sure how it fits in, but suggests Audrey is not as she appears to be on the surface.)

I don't know yet what all this really means, but there must be more than meets the eye.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby tresojos » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:25 pm

waferwhitemilk wrote:People can be so delusional. David Lynch pissed on the corpse of Audrey Horne (re: the nature of Audrey's situation). He defiled her sublime memory as the pure hearted angel of the original series. He has no ideas left, no original ideas left and he views older women as either nags or invisible after the age of forty. He should be ashamed and people who support this should be ashamed too!!!



wow. the tea is scalding hot today
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:45 pm

tresojos wrote:
waferwhitemilk wrote:People can be so delusional. David Lynch pissed on the corpse of Audrey Horne (re: the nature of Audrey's situation). He defiled her sublime memory as the pure hearted angel of the original series. He has no ideas left, no original ideas left and he views older women as either nags or invisible after the age of forty. He should be ashamed and people who support this should be ashamed too!!!



wow. the tea is scalding hot today


While I do think there's a healthy dialogue that can and perhaps must be had regarding gender in the new show (and there's a terrific thread for discussing that!), the OP's personal attack on Lynch is unfair. It's worth noting that Lynch's last major work was a 3-hour epic about a 40ish-year-old woman's inner life. Just because TP:TR has different priorities and approaches (some of them arguably misguided) doesn't give automatic grounds for personal attacks.

And as far as Audrey specifically: keep in mind that this is a person we last saw at age 18; we're now seeing her 25 years later as a fully-formed middle-aged adult, with all the regret, anger and loss that entails. Are you the person you thought or hoped you'd be at this age, back when you were 18? I'm certainly not. I'm not saying you have to like what L/F did with the character, or that we shouldn't question artistic choices. But I really think, realistically, when you're dealing with seeing teenage characters a quarter of a century later, you need to set expectations WAY to the side, even moreso than with any other aspect of this show.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:00 pm

A twenty five year old coma, and also possibly giving birth to a child might seem outlandish, but this isn't practical but a story that was resumed. I just think Lynch when revisiting the cliffhanger finale, he would do something with her predicament... And Frost's book reaffirms that situation. And Lynch always directed his Audrey scenes differently than most... More ethereal and dreamlike. Even The Giant tells Coooer he's "forgotten something" ...when Audrey's capture had no bearing on the Palmer case. Or changing episode eight's script to overlap Audrey praying to Cooper while he sleeps. I just think this new situation is something he would play around with.

Even if it was a throwaway scene, I suspect one would have Audrey saunter around the room, impatiently moving her leg, or fingers tracing a chair. But no, she is stuck, cannot move. Her husband is saying basically how much better it is too sleep, to stay put. But if we look at it as she is screaming at her impassive sleeping self the context of the scene takes on a whole new meaning. I've put my jacket on, it's time to go... You put your jacket on, Sleeping Self... It's time to go! But sleeping self or guide is telling her when she entered the contract that she'll get back to the world if she listens to sleeping self... But it's been too long, and she wants to break the contract, she's getting restless. Breaking the natural process of this world.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:11 pm

Novalis wrote:I've gone for 'Other' because I'm undecided. The Audrey-Charlie scene is certainly weird. Weirder than normal -- for a given value of normal of course.

It refers to characters that don't yet exist for us, and may never do. So maybe these names are wrong or dream-code, as others have suggested. The two figures on screen barely move, as if in sleep paralysis. They can operate their arms -- Audrey puts on a coat, Charlie uses the phone -- but apparently their feet are rooted (or Charlie's butt, since he is sitting). This immobility comes close to a scene featuring a man who appears to have had extensive hip surgery or a damaged hip (Kriscol). While infirmity is often used in Lynch's works to either raise tension (compare the Zimmer-frame user at the junction in FWWM) or slow down the action, here it had been used to highlight how self-sacrificing one of Carl's trailer tenants was. Still, thematically, at an unconscious level the idea of difficult mobility nonetheless struggling to get things done (and, notably, having to sell blood to make ends meet) is implanted in this scene.


Not sure if this is also connected, but right before it cuts to the Audrey scene, Dr. Jacoby mentions the 9th circle of hell -- Dante finds himself trapped in an icy lake.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Snailhead » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:29 pm

I'm excited by the possibilities. I almost feel like it will be weirder if this is reality than if it's a dream or purgatory!
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:And as far as Audrey specifically: keep in mind that this is a person we last saw at age 18; we're now seeing her 25 years later as a fully-formed middle-aged adult, with all the regret, anger and loss that entails. Are you the person you thought or hoped you'd be at this age, back when you were 18? I'm certainly not. I'm not saying you have to like what L/F did with the character, or that we shouldn't question artistic choices. But I really think, realistically, when you're dealing with seeing teenage characters a quarter of a century later, you need to set expectations WAY to the side, even moreso than with any other aspect of this show.


Putting all of this aside, why are some of us acting as if Audrey's entire personality can be known based upon a single scene where she's clearly engaged in a bitter argument and desperately concerned about finding her missing lover? I hope nobody ever takes video of me after somebody just cut me off in traffic and says "This is Jasper at [AGE REDACTED], folks. He just screams obscenities at cars all day every day." :lol:
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Voided wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:It's a movie set and she is acting.


Charlie addresses her as Audrey. What are the chances of her playing an eponymous character?


I thought about that, but nothing would surprise me in this show.

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