Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

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Snailhead
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Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Snailhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:09 pm

Hello all,

Upon some reflection I felt it might be a good thing to create a space for those of us who have a very mixed reaction to the new Twin Peaks - oscillating between like, love, dislike, and hate. I feel that perhaps myself and some others have been dominating discussions in the Profoundly Disappointed thread when we in fact are not ourselves profoundly disappointed. It's not that I don't feel welcome in that thread, but I feel like I've mis-stepped and want to open a conversation for those of us whose opinion of the new series in a constant state of flux.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby dronerstone » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:28 pm

To give the other thread back to the REALLY disappointed viewers? Haha! Nice. :)

Good luck!
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby referendum » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:18 pm

Yes. So, I would qualify myself as ' mixed '
I pretty much agree with everything Agent 327 said half an hour over on the ' profoundly disappointed ' thread:
''There are tons of choices made in the creation of The Return that result in me feeling that way. Poor judgement in terms of how the show looks and feels (Making the show feel cold and sterile is an extremely steep price to pay for what Lynch admits is production convenience), the complete absence of quality in terms of magical scenes that genuinely frighten the hell out of you to the core (Think of the Bob scenes, or some of the Leland scenes from the original), and the equally magical moments that seemed genuinely heartfelt (Think of scenes between Harry Truman and Cooper, James and Donna in the pilot, the RR Dinner scene with Bobby and his father etc).
Lack of a plot where something touching and relatable was the foundation. Lack of decent pacing and self-critical mindset. Lack of the extremely likeable central character etc.


On the other hand, I really like this series, and have got sucked into it, and see it as it's own entity - the sometimes very tenuous relation it has to series 1 and 2 really doesn't bother me. I was a fan of them 26 years ago when at college, and haven't seen them since. Now I am a - unexpectedly - a fan of, and fascinated by this series. I can kind of see why trying to put this TP TR in the same mental compartment as the first 2 series would run into problems, and might even feel that the memory of the first series' was somehow tainted. To me, it doesn't fit into the same compartment. It is it's own animal, revisiting the world and repurposing some of the characters, to tell a very different, and alot bleaker set of stories. Sometimes it goes places i don't like ( green glove mockney for instance) but in this instance it reminds me of something like ' the twilight zone' or those ' strange but true' comics, where most of the stories would be abit spooky or abit weird or abit ' noir ' horror', but occasionally you would get really goofy stupid stories. It seems like Lynch is throwing together ' strange but true ' twilight zone like material, but using the general framework of TP to do this in. The problematic aspects of this for lifelong fans of the first series are self-evident.

On the other other hand, this approach suggests that a series 4 would be fairly easy to knock out if showtime or someone wanted to pay for it. Because it is pretty clear that Lynch and Frost are not ' trapped by the legacy ', but feel free to take it anywhere they want to take it.
We're 14 hours in and until now there has been pretty much no way of predicting what is gonna happen in the next episode. That's quite rare in a TV programme, I think.

[edit:
I have actually util now been consciously avoiding watching the first 2 series again - i tried about ten years ago, felt that the soap opera elements had dated badly, had bad memories of the worst parts of series 2, and after a couple of episodes decided not to go back to it, preferring to remember it is a great thing at the time. Having watched TP TR and got back into it again, however, i may have to go back for a re-watch. :) ]
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Framed_Angel » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:38 pm

Just want to say I'm all in favor of creating this thread. When I am free from the workday tonight I'll have more input.

For now, it fills the appropriate place of status as when one is neither "free" nor "in a relationship" but..... "It's complicated"~
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:45 pm

I've been totally captivated throughout this perplexing series, and still have my vote firmly in the 'like or love' box in the response thread. In so many ways I'm in awe of what they've created here, but, I still think it has real flaws, some of which may yet turn out to be critical. I'm hoping they won't, but even if they do, it won't take too much away from what a ride it's been these last few months, or the admirable ambition and spirit of risk-taking displayed. Obviously, in an ideal world I'd enjoy every element of it*, but I'm quite enjoying the turbulence of my reactions, which can swing wildly from pole to pole even within the space of a single scene. The only episode I outright dismissed as poor still contained one of my favourite scenes in 40+ hours of Twin Peaks. It all adds to the sense of utter unpredictability which I've been loving. But it sure can piss me off sometimes, and my conviction in how good the show really is has ebbed in recent weeks.

*in fairness, I've felt so invested in TP that the only way I would've been truly happy would've been if I'd been made an interfering executive producer with a say over the final cut! :wink:
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby IcedOver » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:01 pm

I'm very much in this category. When reflecting on an episode, my feelings on this have vacillated between like and hate in the space of a few minutes. However, I've never been over the moon about anything in this series, not even the best episode, Part 8. I can't decide whether the show is brilliant or shoddy and rushed, but maybe it's both. I've re-watched most of the episodes (but not 11-14), and for all but maybe one or two, re-watches have made the experience at least somewhat better.

I definitely don't want to hate the show, even though I've said some pretty negative things about it. I'm not going to pretend something is good when it's not just because I'm a Lynch fan.

I keep thinking back to the very first mini-review that came out of the premiere of this show, from Price Peterson, I believe. The word used was "DIFFICULT." It was kind of intriguing and mysterious that someone would say that, but it has most certainly been borne out in the run of this show.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby IcedOver » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:01 pm

I'm very much in this category. When reflecting on an episode, my feelings on this have vacillated between like and hate in the space of a few minutes. However, I've never been over the moon about anything in this series, not even the best episode, Part 8. I can't decide whether the show is brilliant or shoddy and rushed, but maybe it's both. I've re-watched most of the episodes (but not 11-14), and for all but maybe one or two, re-watches have made the experience at least somewhat better.

I definitely don't want to hate the show, even though I've said some pretty negative things about it. I'm not going to pretend something is good when it's not just because I'm a Lynch fan.

I keep thinking back to the very first mini-review that came out of the premiere of this show, from Price Peterson, I believe. The word used was "DIFFICULT." It was kind of intriguing and mysterious that someone would say that, but it has most certainly been borne out in the run of this show.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Snailhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:26 pm

One thing I find fascinating is that aside from Part 8, there's been very little consistency amongst the fans in the parts that are considered the best. I'm curious if in the years that follow whether there might be more unanimity about which are the strongest parts.

Part 10 was one of my favourites, but I know there are many who consider it to be one of the weaker instalments. Many see 12 as standing out as one of the weakest parts, and while it's not my favourite, I definitely prefer it to some of the others (such as Part 9, which is probably the least interesting to me.)
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby wxray » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:58 pm

I posted on the other thread early, but now have come around to mostly love The Return. I do have some moderate disappointment, though, for sure.

For starters, the first episodes were a huge shock. Everything was just wrong, harsh even. Part of it is the digital filming and lack of softness. Part was the missing characters (at first), but most of all, I felt my own damn mortality.

I'm 54, Ashbrook is 50, MacLachlan is 58. I'm these guys, and damn, I feel old. Seeing Bobby grow out of his punk ass phase was a shock. On one hand, a good shock. On another, a wake up call.

And then there is the generation right ahead: Coulson and Ferrer. Both passed away. Not too much older than me. Crap!

After the disappointment of not getting any damn good coffee with pie, I started to realize that it was as it had to be. This isn't 1989 anymore. The world has changed. The world (and arm) have evolved. People die. People are born. Things had to change. And so they did.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Snailhead » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:30 pm

The Lodge stuff has been pretty hit or miss. I liked Laura's scene, especially when she's sucked away, and I like visual of the lodge being infinite, with the curtains raised and revealing the floor going on and on. But there's the odd flatness in the way it's depicted - I chalk it up just as much to the lighting as the fact that it's shot digitally vs on film - and the uncharacteristically on-the-nose tendency to some of the dialogue.

I kind of wish the Evolution of the Arm scene had gone for a "show not tell" approach - instead of Mike saying "the evolution of the arm" and pointing to the tree, it would have communicated the same idea if he'd walked up beside it and a branch of the tree touched the side of Mike's body, where the arm would be, then spoken its dialogue. Like in the scene near the end of FWWM where the little man and Mike are side-by-side. I also find the audio production on the voice of the Evolution of the Arm to be one of the few misses in the audio choices so far. It just doesn't sound quite right (But not in an interesting or creepy way)
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby LateReg » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:40 pm

Snailhead wrote:The Lodge stuff has been pretty hit or miss. I liked Laura's scene, especially when she's sucked away, and I like visual of the lodge being infinite, with the curtains raised and revealing the floor going on and on. But there's the odd flatness in the way it's depicted - I chalk it up just as much to the lighting as the fact that it's shot digitally vs on film - and the uncharacteristically on-the-nose tendency to some of the dialogue.

I kind of wish the Evolution of the Arm scene had gone for a "show not tell" approach - instead of Mike saying "the evolution of the arm" and pointing to the tree, it would have communicated the same idea if he'd walked up beside it and a branch of the tree touched the side of Mike's body, where the arm would be, then spoken its dialogue. Like in the scene near the end of FWWM where the little man and Mike are side-by-side. I also find the audio production on the voice of the Evolution of the Arm to be one of the few misses in the audio choices so far. It just doesn't sound quite right (But not in an interesting or creepy way)


I've been a bit confused about the complaints about the lodge dialogue. Yes, it is on the nose much of the time. But I don't see how it is much different from much of the dialogue in the original series and FWWM. Perhaps you and others feel this way because of some instances of repeated dialogue? At any rate, Mike stating "the evolution of the arm" feels apiece with the rest of the red room scenes dialogue, imo. It also emphasized how Cooper is even lost within the lodge, perhaps not having moved for 25 years and having not seen the Arm for a long time. Furthermore, the line of dialogue really spells out how people/things have changed, even in the lodge. It could have worked the way you suggested as well, but I think Mike's spelling out of what the Arm now is really feels right.

Good luck with your thread, by the way. I think it's a good one to have!
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Framed_Angel » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:28 pm

My first reaction on Parts 1-2, then 4**... the glass box, the total strangers, the red room off-color, Mr C's oddly fake-looking black pupils, "the Tree" 's voice, the scenes without context like Duncan Todd's -- "This was not what I tuned in to see?!"

But each weekend I couldn't wait to tune back in... "time and time again"

I knew approaching a work by Lynch would be to find something 'unsettling' -- just not this kind of unsettling. So I have only a few conjectures why I keep returning to "The Return." Primarily, it has awakened the puzzle-solving drive I didn't know I had, not for this medium. At times I feel like Catherine Martell, with the mystery-box Eckhardt sent them: puzzling over it to the point of frustration, yet when Pete tried to take it, "Don't you fool, you'll BREAK it!" like you still want to protect the same thing that's frustrating you.

I've had to make peace with the fragmented storytelling, the glimpses of familiar characters in unfamiliar scenarios, the lack of musical accompaniment which had saturated much of S1-2. I've embraced the parts I've liked and forsaken hope of appreciating the whole until later with time's retrospective and repeat viewings.

Watching each Part again has been rewarding for the things I hadn't noticed before. I keep in mind not everyone streams it so doesn't have that opportunity as readily. And as a puzzle would provide, the amount of dialogue and answer-searching has been enjoyable to read on dugpa, also reddit and welcometotwinpeaks. I couldn't have foreseen this.

The most I'm grateful to anticipate is that this 'experiment' for lack of a better word, of Lynch's and Frost's, will open doors to other television-based creators who would like to exercise their visions that most networks consider too 'out of the box.'

The least I'm grateful for is being left hanging -- although that obvs feels like a key component to aforementioned unbridled creativity -- but to be introduced to so many scenes with abbreviated context and empty of conclusivity, so many new faces then to lose sight of them. I'm prepared to accept it could be what's intended to feel like a dream or ongoing series of dreams. Like with real dreams, you are left wondering. Apart from the few dreams that reoccur one never feels they're resolved. the viewer has a role to play in anticipating a resolution. So if Miriam's condition in hospital is never referred to again, or the weird door ajar that Andy agreed to meet the farmer later by departing without investigating, or we never learn whether GERSTEN! is steven's mother or his lover, it's going to feel like I'm being gamed by a new different system than usual. I think I might opt for that over the usual.

As long as they give us Gersten once more or, even / especially Harriet. I LOVED Harriet. Seeing Gersten simply made me wonder if Harriet would be next to appear. After all, we keep seeing that schoolgirl running crying during the high school scene of pilot throughout TP:TR, right? Her face covered, her identity not revealed, symbolic of what's being experienced now -- receiving a lot of haphazard building blocks whose combined end result isn't immediately known but one senses its construction, its obliqueness, is deliberate?

** I skipped including "Part 3" among my initial bafflement because the wonder of that Mauve room captivated me enough to distract me from its weirdness. Aesthetically mesmerizing and the sounds Naido would make, it completely transported me.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby mlsstwrt » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:22 am

Nice work Snailhead!
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby BOB1 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:39 am

Snailhead wrote:I feel that perhaps myself and some others have been dominating discussions in the Profoundly Disappointed thread when we in fact are not ourselves profoundly disappointed.

Oh, that's me as well :) Not that I've dominated anything really... I seem to post there once in a blue moon (which is, like, every second day but then it's 20 pages on and I can't find all the posts I was going to relate to!).

I was clearly, if not profoundly disappointed after the first night of Pts 1 and 2. My feelings towards these first two instalments have not changed since - I would still list them as two worst parts of 13 (haven't watched 14 yet), although unfortunately, the other worst parts for me would be 12 and 13... not a very good indicator, I'm afraid. In the meantime though, there were many things I really enjoyed. I learned to like this bizarre thing and I'm surely looking forward to each episode. That's the brief history of 'me and the Return' ;)

Now as for feelings and impressions. What is probably not a good thing, I hardly ever had strong emotions, be it positive or negative. There are, in 95%, things I 'like' or 'don't like' but not love/hate. What I really loved was the Purple Room sequence in Pt3, that was awesome and unique. More than Pt.8 for me, although what I also loved was the "this is the water, this is the well" part, with the woodsman over the radio and all the people's reactions. I also loved the ending of Pt 11 with Badalamenti's piano, Dougie and Mitchum brothers and the blue scene near the end of Pt 4. Some short and generally unimportant scenes with Frank Truman made me feel at home, too. But in general what captures my overall feeling are Dougie and the Roadhouse performances - I really like Dougie as well as the Roadhouse endings, I look forward to them, I like to rewatch them if I can; but it isn't anything special for me. Not really special.
And the really bad things for me? Evolution of the arm made me literally cringe and as we were watching (5 people) we all went "oh hell how bad is that". At the moment I can't think of anything else I really hated. The disassembling Lodge floor perhaps. The Lucy cell phone scene. But nothing as bad as cheer-leading Nadine or Dr Hayward's little Nicky defence speech.

Thing is, even with the bad parts of Season 2, I still loved it for all it was. When your best friend does something really stupid you can facepalm but you still love him, don't you? In The Return I don't find anything to love so it is not the case.

Enough for now perhaps.
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Re: Twin Peaks The Return: The Mixed/Moderately Disappointed Thread

Postby Snailhead » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:32 pm

I liked the post in the Profoundly Disappointed thread that stated that The Return exists in a different emotional universe to the original series. I'm inclined to agree. Accepting that helps me to appreciate The Return more as its own beast, and to stop expecting the feeling that I got from the previous incarnation.
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