TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

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mtwentz
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby mtwentz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:23 pm

The Gazebo wrote:
mtwentz wrote:This was just one critic but the overall critical consensus has been very positive. 72% on Metacritic I believe.


Listen, it's hard to argue for The Return's failure when critics are hoisting it up the flagpole. I would walk around with a degree of smugness myself if my opinion aligned with the critics. However, I firmly believe that this particular show needs a few years for some form of consensus to build, simply because of its divisive nature. I've already hinted at the critcs' fear of losing their cultural capital if they went swimming against the tide while it still matters. In a few years time, this risk is lessened, and we might get their true opinion. If highly experienced critics are still trumpeting The Return's excellence, I'll readily accept the fact that my appreciation of true art has its limits.


And I don't have an issue with anything you wrote above. I only have an issue when some posters (mostly unintentionally) misrepresent what the critics are writing today. And also I think some posters are exaggerating the extent to which the fanbase is divided. From what I've seen, it is divided to a certain extent, but much less so than it was after Fire Walk With Me premiered in 1992. But that's a personal impression of mine and more difficult to measure.
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby TheGum » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:32 pm

I'm back in style!
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby The Gazebo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:45 pm

mtwentz wrote:And also I think some posters are exaggerating the extent to which the fanbase is divided. From what I've seen, it is divided to a certain extent, but much less so than it was after Fire Walk With Me premiered in 1992. But that's a personal impression of mine and more difficult to measure.


I can't weigh in on the fans' reception of FWWM back in '92, but having browsed some Facebook sites (Welcome to Twin Peaks and Showtime's TP page), every post-episode reaction usually begin with some form of "This sucks", followed by the inevitable mudslinging back and forth. That's why it's difficult to pinpoint the "true" reaction to the show. When we're talking about fans, do we just talk about Dugpa, or do we include those who voice their disapproval elsewhere? And what about the ones who left the show somewhere in season 2, was intrigued enough to watch an episode or two of The Return, before they again departed? Should we include the 8-10 million (US viewers) who watched season 1 and 2, compared to the couple of millions today?

What I'm getting at here, is a tendency of Peakheads taking their own fandom VERY seriously, and in the process, dismissing others as 'not true fans'. I listened to podcasts being dismissive of other "so-called fans" even before the season began. It's even happened here ("If you don't like this, you probably weren't a fan to begin with"). That's one of the reasons it's a bit difficult to get a true sense of the reaction to this season.
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby Skip Bittman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:52 pm

It's especially difficult to get a "true sense" of the reaction when you've already decided what the reaction should be. Or does the above not apply to you?

Another nice bit here: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjjk ... twin-peaks
Last edited by Skip Bittman on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby The Gazebo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:52 pm



Good one :) Why write a review of their own when they could just purchase it from WP :)
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby The Gazebo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:02 pm

Skip Bittman wrote:It's especially difficult to get a "true sense" of the reaction when you've already decided what the reaction should be.


Aimed at me? I think I've made it perfectly clear elsewhere that I'm disappointed at this moment, but I'm still hoping that given time I'll appreciate it a lot more. I'm well accustomed to difficult pieces of art growing on me over time. However, that is an entirely different matter than gauging the reaction of 'fans' (and what the term 'fans' means when it comes to Twin Peaks).
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Reviews [plural] in the Washington Post, Chicago Trib, etc; except they're all the Same review

Postby Framed_Angel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:24 pm

The Gazebo wrote:
Good one :) Why write a review of their own when they could just purchase it from WP :)
:wink: But the Truth About TPTR's Merits Is Out There. I want to believe~!
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Reviews [plural] in the Washington Post, Chicago Trib, etc; except they're all the Same review

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:57 pm

Framed_Angel wrote:
The Gazebo wrote:
Good one :) Why write a review of their own when they could just purchase it from WP :)
:wink: But the Truth About TPTR's Merits Is Out There. I want to believe~!


There's no proof of that, Mulder. :wink:

In all seriousness, I'll admit that at times I've probably *appreciated* The Return more than I was actually enjoying it - it has frequently been grim and confusing, and while grim and confusing are certainly part and parcel of Twin Peaks and of Lynch's work in general, it wouldn't have hurt for some of the episodes to have a little more of a clear direction than just "here are some scenes that vaguely have something to do with each other." That said, I don't think I fully appreciated Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, or even FWWM on first viewing, so I do hope I'll have a chance to rewatch the whole thing in a shorter time period soon. If nothing else, keeping all the details straight will be easier, and I'm open to the notion of viewing this as an 18-hour movie more than a TV series. I'm sure that if I'd stopped watching MD or LH half an hour before the end, I'd have probably thought, "Well, that was appealingly weird in some ways and effectively disturbing, but what was the point?"
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Reviews [plural] in the Washington Post, Chicago Trib, etc; except they're all the Same review

Postby Agent Earle » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:04 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:I'm sure that if I'd stopped watching MD or LH half an hour before the end, I'd have probably thought, "Well, that was appealingly weird in some ways and effectively disturbing, but what was the point?"


That's exactly what I thought after viewing MD, but in its entirety, mind you - I was sorry I didn't turn it off half an hour before the end (right around the Club Silencio scene). :)
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Reviews [plural] in the Washington Post, Chicago Trib, etc; except they're all the Same review

Postby The Gazebo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:11 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:In all seriousness, I'll admit that at times I've probably *appreciated* The Return more than I was actually enjoying it - it has frequently been grim and confusing, and while grim and confusing are certainly part and parcel of Twin Peaks and of Lynch's work in general, it wouldn't have hurt for some of the episodes to have a little more of a clear direction than just "here are some scenes that vaguely have something to do with each other." That said, I don't think I fully appreciated Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, or even FWWM on first viewing, so I do hope I'll have a chance to rewatch the whole thing in a shorter time period soon. If nothing else, keeping all the details straight will be easier, and I'm open to the notion of viewing this as an 18-hour movie more than a TV series. I'm sure that if I'd stopped watching MD or LH half an hour before the end, I'd have probably thought, "Well, that was appealingly weird in some ways and effectively disturbing, but what was the point?"


I think you hit the nail on the head there - appreciating vs enjoying it. I can hardly think of another show containing the same number of enjoyable scenes, while at the same time, watching the show week-by-week has felt like somewhat of a chore (add to that, incredibly we're still here discussing it). It's all a bit of a mindf**k that I can't really wrap my head around. I hope there's a chance of watching the whole thing in 3-4 hours segments, with opening/end credits and unneccessary Roadhouse bands removed/shortened. I might well end up with a more positive outlook on things if watching in bulk is possible.
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:14 pm

mtwentz wrote:And also I think some posters are exaggerating the extent to which the fanbase is divided. From what I've seen, it is divided to a certain extent, but much less so than it was after Fire Walk With Me premiered in 1992.


Yes, definitely less so. But I think the vitriol is at least as intense. And I think it is predominantly from fans, not casual viewers or critics.

FWIW, this or the Media thread in the main folder is the place for these kind of articles - not putting them in the Disappointed thread.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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mtwentz
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby mtwentz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:31 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
mtwentz wrote:And also I think some posters are exaggerating the extent to which the fanbase is divided. From what I've seen, it is divided to a certain extent, but much less so than it was after Fire Walk With Me premiered in 1992.


Yes, definitely less so. But I think the vitriol is at least as intense. And I think it is predominantly from fans, not casual viewers or critics.

FWIW, this or the Media thread in the main folder is the place for these kind of articles - not putting them in the Disappointed thread.


This is actually not the Disappointed thread (it's in Season 3 category). After I posted one positive review there, I learned my lesson.
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mtwentz
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby mtwentz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:34 pm

The Gazebo wrote:
mtwentz wrote:And also I think some posters are exaggerating the extent to which the fanbase is divided. From what I've seen, it is divided to a certain extent, but much less so than it was after Fire Walk With Me premiered in 1992. But that's a personal impression of mine and more difficult to measure.


I can't weigh in on the fans' reception of FWWM back in '92, but having browsed some Facebook sites (Welcome to Twin Peaks and Showtime's TP page), every post-episode reaction usually begin with some form of "This sucks", followed by the inevitable mudslinging back and forth. That's why it's difficult to pinpoint the "true" reaction to the show. When we're talking about fans, do we just talk about Dugpa, or do we include those who voice their disapproval elsewhere? And what about the ones who left the show somewhere in season 2, was intrigued enough to watch an episode or two of The Return, before they again departed? Should we include the 8-10 million (US viewers) who watched season 1 and 2, compared to the couple of millions today?

What I'm getting at here, is a tendency of Peakheads taking their own fandom VERY seriously, and in the process, dismissing others as 'not true fans'. I listened to podcasts being dismissive of other "so-called fans" even before the season began. It's even happened here ("If you don't like this, you probably weren't a fan to begin with"). That's one of the reasons it's a bit difficult to get a true sense of the reaction to this season.


I think it's really very hard to measure what percentage of the fandom like vs. love vs. despise the Return. My general impression just from messaging, reading posts, listening to podcasts, etc. is about 70-80% either like or love. But that's highly unscientific, so if someone wants to dispute that range, I have no problem with that.
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby The Gazebo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:44 pm

mtwentz wrote:I think it's really very hard to measure what percentage of the fandom like vs. love vs. despise the Return. My general impression just from messaging, reading posts, listening to podcasts, etc. is about 70-80% either like or love. But that's highly unscientific, so if someone wants to dispute that range, I have no problem with that.


Yeah, in the end, it doesn't really matter, nor should it. If one loves the show, great. If one hates it, no big deal. I'm ready for whatever. If I still dislike the show in 2020 while the critics love it, fine. If I love it while the critics have turned, fine. Anyway, let's hope for a two-hour blast on Sunday :) Peace :)
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Re: TP:TR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post

Postby yaxomoxay » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:45 pm

Glowing review by The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... -our-times


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