FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Which option best describes your overall reaction to The Return as a complete work?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:09 pm

Like or Love
228
65%
Heavily Mixed, Leaning Towards Like
41
12%
Heavily Mixed, Leaning Towards Dislike
44
12%
Dislike or Hate
40
11%
 
Total votes: 353
douglasb
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 1:51 pm
Location: Exiled in England
Contact:

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby douglasb » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:50 am

We do actually know what BadCoop wants, we just don't know why and, as a result, the stakes are non-existent. Maybe 'Playing Card' borrowed one of his Willie Nelson CDs and he wants it back?
Rik Renault
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41 am

Re: RE: Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Rik Renault » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:34 pm

IcedOver wrote:People are making every excuse in the book to justify these decisions, but I wonder why it's so difficult to admit that some of this was flubbed?


Maybe they just have a genuinely held opinion that's different to yours :)

The lack of resolution is a gut-punch for me too, but as with many other aspects of the form, Lynch plays with what is pleasing and contrasts it for effect. I would guess that we're not supposed to enjoy the lack of resolution like we're not supposed to enjoy the harsh window-wiping noises, for example.

The Return has been incredibly frustrating, but a puzzle is only fun while you're solving it.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
mtwentz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtwentz » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:05 pm

douglasb wrote:We do actually know what BadCoop wants, we just don't know why and, as a result, the stakes are non-existent. Maybe 'Playing Card' borrowed one of his Willie Nelson CDs and he wants it back?


I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.
User avatar
referendum
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby referendum » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:45 pm

i realise this is childish, but everytime i come to this thread, i always misread it as : Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Wank
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
Shloogorgh
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:33 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Shloogorgh » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:50 pm

mtwentz wrote:I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.


I'd say that the lack of specifics regarding Windom Earle's plan with the Black Lodge was mitigated by the game of chess he was playing against Cooper culminating in the abduction of Annie. Earle spent a lot of s2 acting as a looming menace to the established characters of Twin Peaks, where as Mr C's tense encounter in the sheriff station is comparatively brief.

Similarly, I'm not bothered by the swift and anticlimactic end to Earle since at that point he'd already lured Cooper into the Lodge and left him to contend with worse forces. Whereas once Mr C is defeated, Cooper stands around as Freddie deals with BOB
User avatar
a whole damn town
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 6:13 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby a whole damn town » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:58 pm

mtwentz wrote:I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.

Earle wanted to find the home of spirits which "would offer up a power so vast that its bearer might reorder the Earth itself to his liking." He also wanted to kill one of the main female characters and to take away Cooper's soul.
The doppelganger wanted an ugly drawing on a scratched up playing card. He also wanted some mobile phones.

In what dream world reality are those remotely the same?
I'm not just three men on a fishing trip.
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 678
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Jasper » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:05 pm

a whole damn town wrote:
mtwentz wrote:I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.

Earle wanted to find the home of spirits which "would offer up a power so vast that its bearer might reorder the Earth itself to his liking." He also wanted to kill one of the main female characters and to take away Cooper's soul.
The doppelganger wanted an ugly drawing on a scratched up playing card. He also wanted some mobile phones.

In what dream world reality are those remotely the same?


It's almost as if the card with the mark wasn't the point (gosh, he already had that card, didn't he?), but rather that it was like a representation of something else. Maybe even something that was alluded to or even directly shown elsewhere in the season. But...that's probably just me reaching.
claaa7
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby claaa7 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:08 am

Jasper wrote:
a whole damn town wrote:
mtwentz wrote:I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.

Earle wanted to find the home of spirits which "would offer up a power so vast that its bearer might reorder the Earth itself to his liking." He also wanted to kill one of the main female characters and to take away Cooper's soul.
The doppelganger wanted an ugly drawing on a scratched up playing card. He also wanted some mobile phones.

In what dream world reality are those remotely the same?


It's almost as if the card with the mark wasn't the point (gosh, he already had that card, didn't he?), but rather that it was like a representation of something else. Maybe even something that was alluded to or even directly shown elsewhere in the season. But...that's probably just me reaching.


lol :)

i really like how sublime it is. some of these things are explained but it's not explicitly spelled out for us.. we know Mister C is searching for the negative entity represented on the card, on the note in Major Briggs tube and on Hawk's map and we also learn that he would find it in the Palmer house. on top of that the thing on the card bears a striking similarity to the Mother/Experiment we see in episode 8... to me this is most likely JUDY, an extreme negative force.

i guess Hawk wasn't joking when he told Frank - "You don't ever want to know about that".

many times the clues are there but we have to make the connections ourselves.. and that to me is a beautiful thing.
User avatar
Taperecorder
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 7:53 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Taperecorder » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:40 am

claaa7 wrote:i really like how sublime it is. some of these things are explained but it's not explicitly spelled out for us.. we know Mister C is searching for the negative entity represented on the card, on the note in Major Briggs tube and on Hawk's map and we also learn that he would find it in the Palmer house. on top of that the thing on the card bears a striking similarity to the Mother/Experiment we see in episode 8... to me this is most likely JUDY, an extreme negative force. i guess Hawk wasn't joking when he told Frank - "You don't ever want to know about that".

many times the clues are there but we have to make the connections ourselves.. and that to me is a beautiful thing.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. That is where TP:TR worked for me. I want the mystery. I loved making those connections. I want to be coming on to Dugpa (like I have off and on again for the last ten years or so) to read new theories and the like. But then there is the other TP:TR writing and direction. Glowing Bob orbs and green gloves and out of the blue explanations about things that did not happen in the previous two seasons. Just seemed so lazy and, well, amateurish. I would have been much more satisfied if the Mr. C coordinates that had him briefly caged by the Giant/Fireman had ended there. As a trap for Mr C/Bob. It would have been way more satisfying than the Buffy The Lost Vampire Avengers ending. An ending to not one but TWO formidable Twin Peaks characters. I did not go into this expecting any kind of showdown between the two Coopers. But that's what happened. And it fizzled. And it made so much of what I watched before seem pointless. And like various posters above me, I feel sad about it all. 23 years of Twin Peaks ended on a fizzled out green gloved guy + Back To The Future 2/Quantum Leap + it was all a dream or was it? There is no mystery in there for me.

Shloogorgh wrote: I keep trying to move on from the show, but I can't help but think about it, and lurk in fan corners. I'm still ensnared in its spell. But I can't help but feel angry and resentful. I guess I'll see what time brings.


Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself!
-
As above, so below.
-
User avatar
mtwentz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtwentz » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:05 am

Taperecorder wrote:
claaa7 wrote:i really like how sublime it is. some of these things are explained but it's not explicitly spelled out for us.. we know Mister C is searching for the negative entity represented on the card, on the note in Major Briggs tube and on Hawk's map and we also learn that he would find it in the Palmer house. on top of that the thing on the card bears a striking similarity to the Mother/Experiment we see in episode 8... to me this is most likely JUDY, an extreme negative force. i guess Hawk wasn't joking when he told Frank - "You don't ever want to know about that".

many times the clues are there but we have to make the connections ourselves.. and that to me is a beautiful thing.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. That is where TP:TR worked for me. I want the mystery. I loved making those connections. I want to be coming on to Dugpa (like I have off and on again for the last ten years or so) to read new theories and the like. But then there is the other TP:TR writing and direction. Glowing Bob orbs and green gloves and out of the blue explanations about things that did not happen in the previous two seasons. Just seemed so lazy and, well, amateurish. I would have been much more satisfied if the Mr. C coordinates that had him briefly caged by the Giant/Fireman had ended there. As a trap for Mr C/Bob. It would have been way more satisfying than the Buffy The Lost Vampire Avengers ending. An ending to not one but TWO formidable Twin Peaks characters. I did not go into this expecting any kind of showdown between the two Coopers. But that's what happened. And it fizzled. And it made so much of what I watched before seem pointless. And like various posters above me, I feel sad about it all. 23 years of Twin Peaks ended on a fizzled out green gloved guy + Back To The Future 2/Quantum Leap + it was all a dream or was it? There is no mystery in there for me.

Shloogorgh wrote: I keep trying to move on from the show, but I can't help but think about it, and lurk in fan corners. I'm still ensnared in its spell. But I can't help but feel angry and resentful. I guess I'll see what time brings.


Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself!

I have to respectfully but strenuously disagree. I thought Bad Coop going into the Sheriff's station was one of the best scenes in the entire series. It felt like a very bizarre and dark reunion. The sound design was also out of this world and I thought.Kyle was terrific.
User avatar
mtwentz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtwentz » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:51 am

a whole damn town wrote:
mtwentz wrote:I guess it was kind of the same with the original series though. We knew Windom Earle was seeking access to the Black Lodge but it was never revealed what he specifically planned to do once he gained access beyond vague fears of Earle having access to a great source of power. Both of these plots worked for me and made me feel the stakes were high.

Earle wanted to find the home of spirits which "would offer up a power so vast that its bearer might reorder the Earth itself to his liking." He also wanted to kill one of the main female characters and to take away Cooper's soul.
The doppelganger wanted an ugly drawing on a scratched up playing card. He also wanted some mobile phones.

In what dream world reality are those remotely the same?


I mean, that's pretty darn vague. The viewer is left with the feeling that Mr. C has a similar 'reorder the universe' agenda, and frankly, I do not believe it would have added anything to the tension to throw in a line like that.

All we really need to know is that he's not seeking those coordinates to find a better cup of coffee...he's up to something really nefarious.
User avatar
referendum
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby referendum » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:59 am

mtwentz wrote:All we really need to know is that he's not seeking those coordinates to find a better cup of coffee...he's up to something really nefarious.


i thought he was just trying to save his own skin. He didn't seem to have any plan beyond survival.
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
mtwentz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtwentz » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:38 am

referendum wrote:
mtwentz wrote:All we really need to know is that he's not seeking those coordinates to find a better cup of coffee...he's up to something really nefarious.


i thought he was just trying to save his own skin. He didn't seem to have any plan beyond survival.


That was the 'kill Dougie' portion of his plan.

Remember, this was not information he 'needed', but 'wanted' :-).
User avatar
Pinky
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:21 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Pinky » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:19 pm

something that keeps nagging at me is this idea that Doppelcoop has been globetrotting on some quest to find Judy, but what would ever have given the Doppelganger the notion that the answer to any of this would lie anywhere other than the very place that seems to be the earthly nexus of his home realm? The very place in which he entered the world. Why did Doppelcoop bother to leave TP in the first place? I get that given how manic he was at s2 finale, he probably went on one hell of an exploratory jolly but when he sobered up and got all grim and on-mission, why did he not just head straight back for TP, instead of spending time searching for co-ordinates to a place he already knows exists and which is an entrance back to his world?
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 678
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Jasper » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:53 pm

Pinky wrote:something that keeps nagging at me is this idea that Doppelcoop has been globetrotting on some quest to find Judy, but what would ever have given the Doppelganger the notion that the answer to any of this would lie anywhere other than the very place that seems to be the earthly nexus of his home realm? The very place in which he entered the world. Why did Doppelcoop bother to leave TP in the first place? I get that given how manic he was at s2 finale, he probably went on one hell of an exploratory jolly but when he sobered up and got all grim and on-mission, why did he not just head straight back for TP, instead of spending time searching for co-ordinates to a place he already knows exists and which is an entrance back to his world?


He sobers up right quick.


Return to “Season 3 (2017) The Return (Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mickeyfickey and 12 guests