FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

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Which option best describes your overall reaction to The Return as a complete work?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:09 pm

Like or Love
228
65%
Heavily Mixed, Leaning Towards Like
41
12%
Heavily Mixed, Leaning Towards Dislike
44
12%
Dislike or Hate
40
11%
 
Total votes: 353
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Wonderful & Strange
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:38 pm

N. Needleman wrote:It made me bleed and I love it like a bad daddy.


Just wanted to quote this because awesome.
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Novalis
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Novalis » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:41 am

All in all, this was unlike anything else and I have ended up loving it.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: RE: Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtsi » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:57 pm

Cipher wrote:
counterpaul wrote:Laura transcends but Coop cannot. Coop remains stuck, convinced that he can "solve" the past--illuminate its mysteries and repair its traumas. The final line, "what year is it," is so profound because Coop has spent most of his life sleepwalking through his present, missing the life he's been given, in favor of attempting to construct a past that cannot be.

Second, I don't think Laura is subsumed at all. The ending of FWWM stands 100%. This is Coop's Laura, here--the past he wants to repair, the trauma he wants to heal. Lynch told Laura's story, in which she heroically transcended her own trauma, but now she lingers as a powerful ghost in Cooper's story. This isn't a contradiction to me at all.

This is a reading I can begin to make piece with, though it's still somewhat difficult to reconcile a final note that strips Laura (even a Laura) of agency or focus after what felt like a lovely dovetailing of her arc's and Cooper's in the film. It's a fitting ending for Cooper, but ... Laura as the one who must now save Cooper? Maybe, but we don't have a genuine implication, as the footage cuts on a moment of singular horror.

I have to say, though, it is growing on me. And your lines about aging and "knowing better" and wanting more of the past rings true, though that still all works better for me at the moment taking The Return as stand-alone rather than as the finale to Peaks.

Now that it's all done, how do we summarize the greater meta-work of Twin Peaks?

"A young girl's personal duplicity and murder expands into a surreal, never-ending mystery about the cosmic forces of love and fear"?

In a way, he simultaneously lived all those lives and none of them. When he "wakes up," he knows the whole story. He remembers everything. He was Cooper, Dougie, and his Doppelganger all at once--they're all his life. And they changed him, despite the fact that he lived them at a remove.

Yes; this I very much agree with.

EDIT -- Liking it more the more I think about it.
Agree and completely agree.

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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Twink Peaks » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:07 pm

Hate :twisted:
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby JohnPalSki » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:06 pm

Simultaneously:
Gorgeous and horrifying.
Funny and disturbing.
Confusing and satisfying.

In other words- not what I expected, but everything I hoped for. I was able to submit to the experience AS an experience, and keep my sleuthing in the positive.
I started watching TP about 20 years ago. And this was well worth the wait.


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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:33 pm

So like--love 75% and dislike--hate 25%.

Considering how challenging S3 was, that's an amazing success.

And critics and streaming viewers agree.

The show will come back, and the vocal haters will have no effect. Goodness wins again. Evil inhabits its own phantom thread. :lol:
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Jasper » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:50 pm

This poll/thread is for everyone with an opinion about season three.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Poiuyt » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:50 pm

heavily mixed, leaning towards dislike.

the premiere (1/2), most of 3 and 4, and parts throughout 5-11 were good. episodes 12-15 got pretty bad/unwatchable. 16 was okay. hated the finale.

if another season of this gets made, some more writers couldn't hurt... just saying.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Taperecorder » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:11 pm

Heavily mixed, leaning towards dislike. Possibly even hate.

I had so much fun running home on Sunday nights and watching it. The sound, the mood, everything was so so good. As messy as the occasional episode was we'd rewatch them the next evening and soak it in. Such a glorious addition to the summer. And then episode 17 happened. From the ham-fisted Gordon Cole out of the blue explanation of Judy to the Cooper/Cole/Briggs retcon/revision to the 'fight' between Nintendo Bob and fake Cockney accent green glove kid. Not to mention the horrible Diane/Naido bit. What a waste of so many wonderful characters (and actors) - just have them stand around a room watching the 'action' with the odd shot of their faces thrown in. Man oh man. Just such terrible writing. What a shame.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:00 pm

I'll always question some of the creative and narrative decisions that The Return made. I don't think I'll ever be truly comfortable with it. Like many other posts say, it had so much duality;

unremarkable cinematography, sometimes ugly/some of the most unbelievable visuals of Lynch's career, with a beautiful understanding of the camera.

An increasingly incoherent, awkward and fragmented narrative/a confident, audacious meeting of subversion with moving, sincere implications.

Cheap, almost laughable special effects masquerading as artistic/intensely, blindingly unusual and intriguing perspectives on the form.

But the more I think about it, the more I love it. It's flawed, and I can't help but wonder if it told the best story it could, but it's so winning in a bizarre, but not unexpected, way. It's deeply moved me.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return and its smug fans who think these threads are all about them

Postby Framed_Angel » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:19 pm

Dislike mostly; but want to acknowledge where I thought cinematography did work for me.

Settings and landscapes where they proved most effective, range from the warehouse/ penthouse room in which the box was first introduced Part 1; meticulously detailed setting for such a bland task as watching-the-box...
...or the Fab Four (Gordon, Albert, Tammy & Diane) as they visited the site Hastings directed them & Det. Mackley to find Ruth's body. The doorframes and transoms and dilapidated posts of the old buildings where the woodsmen and vortex would appear, these structures had an innate aesthetic I was drawn to...
...Then, Miriams' trailer so nice and homey in its pastoral location, jarring contrast to the violence we'd witness (except not really but rather listening to) aware of its remote rural outpost. Too brief the camera showed inside her kitchenette/ dish rack and knick knacks revealing the personality of Miriam who lay bleeding on the floor. I thrived on settings like these and others.

Not enough to make up for the careless storytelling and directionless character intro's nor dearth of poignant or engaging musical accompaniment. But, as other mentioned: something kept me wanting to tune in again each Sunday; and also I found reward in watching each Part (with a few exceptions) again a 2nd time. I'm calling these what some commenter phrased "moving paintings" just for my own purposes. Like actual paintings at an exhibit or gallery or a public mural, offering renewed perspective to the viewer every time it's revisited.

As a film nor a tv series, it didn't work for me. Glad some others are deriving enjoyment with no complaints, except about others who have complaints! Who for whatever reason -- needing to have the last word I guess - - they complain about complainers in an unrelated thread,. Congrats to Wonderful an Strange for feeling so validated by the informal poll that is in no way scientific; does not reach board users who've departed the forum in the strongest sense of disappointment; which said complainants by the nature of disappointment do not occupy some Manichean "evil vs good" realm of your imagination (surely you jest, on that bit!), nor make pretense as if their disbelief wasn't suspended in a dozen directions while enduring this Return. I wouldn't be cavalier about "winning" any polls and thankfully, *most* of the people here who are admirers of the Return aren't mired in having to denigrate all viewpoints that dare to criticize. If anything, an intolerable mind toward critical thinking least reflects Lynch's provocative means toward ambiguous ends, risk taking, and artful ambition of all, even undermines it. But eh, whatever it takes to feel invincible my friend!
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby mtwentz » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:31 pm

Taperecorder wrote:Heavily mixed, leaning towards dislike. Possibly even hate.

I had so much fun running home on Sunday nights and watching it. The sound, the mood, everything was so so good. As messy as the occasional episode was we'd rewatch them the next evening and soak it in. Such a glorious addition to the summer. And then episode 17 happened. From the ham-fisted Gordon Cole out of the blue explanation of Judy to the Cooper/Cole/Briggs retcon/revision to the 'fight' between Nintendo Bob and fake Cockney accent green glove kid. Not to mention the horrible Diane/Naido bit. What a waste of so many wonderful characters (and actors) - just have them stand around a room watching the 'action' with the odd shot of their faces thrown in. Man oh man. Just such terrible writing. What a shame.


I had the opposite reaction. Episode 17 is probably my favorite of the series, followed closely by 18, 8 and 2.

It is so freakin' surreal, that whole episode, and the undertone of dread once Doppelcoop enters the Sheriff's station- I think that was Kyle's best performance. And then once Cooper's face is superimposed over the scenery, it really gets you to questioning reality- are we in a dream, is it real, is it future, is it past?
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Shloogorgh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:05 pm

Taperecorder wrote:Heavily mixed, leaning towards dislike. Possibly even hate.

I had so much fun running home on Sunday nights and watching it. The sound, the mood, everything was so so good. As messy as the occasional episode was we'd rewatch them the next evening and soak it in. Such a glorious addition to the summer. And then episode 17 happened. From the ham-fisted Gordon Cole out of the blue explanation of Judy to the Cooper/Cole/Briggs retcon/revision to the 'fight' between Nintendo Bob and fake Cockney accent green glove kid. Not to mention the horrible Diane/Naido bit. What a waste of so many wonderful characters (and actors) - just have them stand around a room watching the 'action' with the odd shot of their faces thrown in. Man oh man. Just such terrible writing. What a shame.


This is entirely how I felt. I had my doubts every step of the way, but I was still enjoying the ride. Then episode 17 happened. I feel like a good ending reframes everything that came before it and puts it into a new context. This episode, for me, had the effect of devaluing what came before it, made so much seem pointless. Made it seem less than the sum of its parts. Episode 18 is more of a mixed bag for me, since the moods it evoked were more interesting.

I keep trying to move on from the show, but I can't help but think about it, and lurk in fan corners. I'm still ensnared in its spell. But I can't help but feel angry and resentful. I guess I'll see what time brings.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: the Part 17 discussion

Gabriel, in the Profoundly Disappointed thread, referred to TP:TR as a Monty Python-style sketch show multiple times. I never found this a particularly apt metaphor. As much as I love TR, it settled into a somewhat predictable rhythm for much of its run (even while doing wildly unpredictable things within that structure). If I were inclined to make a derogatory sketch-show parallel, it would be SNL: we get recurring sketches/characters like the Dougie show every week, the "FBI crew" show, the occasional "Dr. Amp" sketch, Jerry's adventures in the woods. In contrast, Monty Python's Flying Circus was NEVER structurally predictable and had very few recurring characters.

However, Part 17 is the one area of the show that does instantly bring Python to mind for me. The whole sheriff's station sequence plays out like Graham Chapman's colonel coming along and saying the sketch has gotten too silly, or the police arresting everyone in Holy Grail, bringing the proceedings to an abrupt ending. As the Pythons were more interested in the main body of the sketch and in subverting the traditional obsession with punchlines, L/F seem to have no interest in traditional plot resolution. Part 17 is the finale from a plot standpoint, whereas Part 18 is the finale from a thematic standpoint. I found the latter vastly more satisfying. Part 17 has an air of "we're resolving everything as quickly as possible because we have to." There does seem to be an air of self-awareness/subversion in the way this is executed with eccentric comic book absurdity, but it's not particularly successful for me. As soon as we get into "we live inside a dream," however, the "plot" is behind us and we move into far more interesting territory.
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Re: FINAL POLL!!!!!!! Your Reaction to The Return as a Complete Work

Postby IcedOver » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:08 am

I still haven't re-watched the final two episodes, but over two weeks after, my feelings for the show as a whole, due to those two hours, have become more and more negative. If the show had resolved itself well, I would potentially paint it as a "great" show. Despite so much clumsiness and obvious rushing, it was going into some pretty interesting territory. The final two hours took a huge shit on what had come before. Just as far as the negative effect that finale had on the show, I might almost put this in the same league as the final season of "Lost", to be honest. You can make all the assertions about the "middle finger" and all that, and I had those feelings right after, even some exhilaration over it. However, with a few weeks to mull on it, the lack of respect shown most of the plotlines has just made me wonder what the point of this whole show was, the point of us investing anything in what had been established over 16 hours. The HORRENDOUS, out-of-nowhere thematically and plotwise Back to the Future garbage was difficult to watch, as was the fact that we had no emotional resolution to some of the main plot points. It's hard to want to go back and re-watch the whole show, focus on these plots, and know that we have no real satisfying resolution to Evil Cooper, for instance, no clue-in on what he wants. People are making every excuse in the book to justify these decisions, but I wonder why it's so difficult to admit that some of this was flubbed?
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