S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

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Which subplot left you most frustrated, wanting more?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:33 am

Audrey
49
42%
Sarah Palmer
32
28%
Red/Shelly/Bobby
17
15%
Becky/Steven/Gersten
2
2%
Ben/Beverly
2
2%
Other (please specify)
14
12%
 
Total votes: 116
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krishnanspace
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby krishnanspace » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:50 pm

What did Hawk not tell anyone about what he saw at Glastonbury Grove? That's been tingling me since the beginning of the season
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BigEd
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:05 pm

I voted "other" simply because there wasn't an option for "none." That said, I might have enjoyed a bit more Sarah / Judy, but between chomping the neck of one of the world's truckers in the bar, and also going nuts attacking a photo of the prom queen, it may have been enough. Certainly a "bad story." Maybe something for season 4 to expand upon.... 8)

I certainly had enough of Becky/Steven, Ben/Beverly, Red/Shelley and nuthouse Audrey.
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Snailhead
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Snailhead » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:16 pm

counterpaul wrote:(...)

Because cosmic battles aren't the point, and they never were. All the Really Important stuff being investigated by cops and Feds and military folks, all the codes to crack, and powerful mystic forces are the way in to the real stuff: the traumas that define us. (...)



I wish I could agree with you, unfortunately the majority of what actually took up the majority running time of The Return consisted of the things that you say "aren't the point" - cops, feds, military, codes, mystic forces. The emotionally powerful scenes are kind of scarce in comparison.
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Tosker
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Tosker » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:16 pm

I voted Red/Shelly/Bobby. They could have gone for Red getting busted after Chad made a confession about the drugs ring. That would have opened up some potential for Shelly and Bobby to reconcile. Becky's status could have been addressed very simply as well (Amanda Syfried must have expected the character to have far more relevance to the main plot when she signed on).

Second to that ....The Congressman's Dilemma. :D
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counterpaul
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby counterpaul » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:00 am

Snailhead wrote:
counterpaul wrote:(...)

Because cosmic battles aren't the point, and they never were. All the Really Important stuff being investigated by cops and Feds and military folks, all the codes to crack, and powerful mystic forces are the way in to the real stuff: the traumas that define us. (...)



I wish I could agree with you, unfortunately the majority of what actually took up the majority running time of The Return consisted of the things that you say "aren't the point" - cops, feds, military, codes, mystic forces. The emotionally powerful scenes are kind of scarce in comparison.


Well, they aren't the point, but they do serve a purpose. What most of this material boils down to is people trying to derive meaning from the inscrutable--and taking that task seriously. If we want to talk about what really took up the running time, I'd bet (not having done any calculations) that a huge chunk of it (certainly what consistently drove it hour by hour) was the act of trying to suss things out. So much of The Return was about people trying to describe what they've witnessed or felt and make some kind of sense of it. So much of the running time was devoted to the simple but profound act of people telling each other stories and then trying to figure out what those stories might mean.

That act, the storytelling and contemplation, does matter, even if nearly everybody was most likely totally wrong about every conclusion they came to, when they were able to come to a conclusion at all. Finally, Hastings's "zone" and Tammy's "tulpas" and Gordon's "Judy" and Audrey's "Billy" and Coop's "home" (among many other such examples, including all the wonderful sketches in The Roadhouse) are all pretty much equal. In and of themselves they are not the point, but they act as crucial incantations. They cast a spell, as stories do--as storytelling does. They get us where we need to be. They lay the path. They may not be the point, but they are the way.
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waferwhitemilk
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby waferwhitemilk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:11 am

counterpaul wrote:That act, the storytelling and contemplation, does matter, even if nearly everybody was most likely totally wrong about every conclusion they came to, when they were able to come to a conclusion at all. Finally, Hastings's "zone" and Tammy's "tulpas" and Gordon's "Judy" and Audrey's "Billy" and Coop's "home" (among many other such examples, including all the wonderful sketches in The Roadhouse) are all pretty much equal. In and of themselves they are not the point, but they act as crucial incantations. They cast a spell, as stories do--as storytelling does. They get us where we need to be. They lay the path. They may not be the point, but they are the way.

That is a good wisdom counterpaul, thanks. Although i have to agree with BOB1 and Snailhead that the way you describe it to me works better than the way Lynch did.
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counterpaul
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby counterpaul » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:31 am

waferwhitemilk wrote:That is a good wisdom counterpaul, thanks. Although i have to agree with BOB1 and Snailhead that the way you describe it to me works better than the way Lynch did.


I feel so weird about these compliments because I feel like I'm just doing my best to try and describe what I saw. And doing only a pale, grasping job at that. It's all on the screen!

It's funny because, as a writer and filmmaker, my biggest takeaway from TPTR is that I have so much to learn! I feel like structurally and tonally and metaphysically, TPTR is just a total marvel. There is absolutely nothing like it I can think of. Lynch and Frost started basically from scratch here and while I found it endlessly rewarding and meaningful even the first time through, I feel like I'll be spending many years trying to truly comprehend just why it did what it did to me. Kind of like the characters in the show itself, here we are trying to describe the inscrutable, and usually totally missing the point in the process (myself absolutely included!--please don't read this as a dig at the forum).
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:15 am

Three words: ANNIE EFFIN' BLACKBURN (yes, Frost, I'm lookin' at you, Blackburn's the name!). I don't care if that doesn't relate to this season, it was something some of us have been living with for 25+ years and you can't just shrug it off with the indifference of stepping over a dog turd. You just can't do that. As you can't publically tell people it'll be resolved when that was, in fact, the furthest thing from the show's mind (yes, MacLachlan, I'm lookin' at you!).
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David Locke
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby David Locke » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:41 am

I really don't mean to be flippant, but I don't think Annie is important at all 25 years later in the context of a continuation. She was basically a narrative pawn to get Coop in the lodge, and it's not like Lynch or Frost are terribly invested in her or any mid/late S2-unique characters. Maybe Annie getting another mention, sure, but it's just silly to expect to actually see her again. And I say this as a huge fan of the first two seasons who thinks TR doesn't at all shape up to them on the whole.


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Ragnell
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Ragnell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:21 am

Y'know what's strange? I found it really difficult to pick any of these subplots. The Return ended in a way where it seemed like I didn't ave to worry any more about Audrey or the Briggses or Ben and Beverky. Sarah I don't consider a subplot, she's clearly part of that main metaplot with Laura and Cooper.

I picked Bobby/Shelly/Red, simply because there's some unexplained things about Red and I would have enjoyed more Bobby and Shelly stuff. I feel like Shelly witnessing the Ed and Norma resolution would have had some sort of effect on her. This subplot hinges on Shelly, who can remain in the cycle she's been in since she was a teenager or can mature like Bobby has. Not necessarily restarting her romance with Bobby, but growing beyond Red at least. Shelly was really the only original cast member who has not grown and changed at all, it would've been nice to see her do that.

But I wouldn't say not seeing that resolved frustrated me. The stakes seem so high as of the end of Part 17 that the Cooper and Laura stuff seem to eclipse all the other subplots. I'm sure Shelly'll be okay, it would just be nice to see it happen.
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 am

David Locke wrote:I really don't mean to be flippant, but I don't think Annie is important at all 25 years later in the context of a continuation. She was basically a narrative pawn to get Coop in the lodge, and it's not like Lynch or Frost are terribly invested in her or any mid/late S2-unique characters. Maybe Annie getting another mention, sure, but it's just silly to expect to actually see her again. And I say this as a huge fan of the first two seasons who thinks TR doesn't at all shape up to them on the whole.


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Yeah, so? I contributed what was important to me and what I (among other things) was interested in seeing/hearing on the new show and was disappointed it did not materialise/get resolution. I think I made it clear (if not now, then in other posts on the subject) that I don't/didn't expect a friggin' multi-episode storyline revolving around Annie's whereabouts and doings - but a mention that would be somewhat more substantial than that "some girl who went there with Cooper" nonsense would be nice and wouldn't hurt anybody. Of course, you can argue that her character is not important 25 years later in regards to the continuation , but then again, what makes the likes of Big Ed, Norma, Nadine, Jacoby, Bobby, Shelly, Ben and Audrey more important? Not their storylines in S 3, that's for sure. And how is expecting Annie to appear any more silly than the actual (and pointless) appearance of, say, Denise Bryson? All that aside, my assertion about false advertising on MacLachlan's part and indifferent, lazy-ass writing on Frost's part still stands.
Rhodes
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Rhodes » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:49 am

We don't know who was with Mr C on the picture of NY, do we?
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Rhodes » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:54 am

Ragnell wrote: Shelly was really the only original cast member who has not grown and changed at all, it would've been nice to see her do that.


Isn't it unrealistic (in a bad way) if EVERYBODY grows? A lot of people don't make a lot of progress.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:26 am

Agent Earle wrote:Three words: ANNIE EFFIN' BLACKBURN (yes, Frost, I'm lookin' at you, Blackburn's the name!). I don't care if that doesn't relate to this season, it was something some of us have been living with for 25+ years and you can't just shrug it off with the indifference of stepping over a dog turd. You just can't do that. As you can't publically tell people it'll be resolved when that was, in fact, the furthest thing from the show's mind (yes, MacLachlan, I'm lookin' at you!).

Yeah, that was a big disappointment. I never cared about her character, but she was important to Cooper and you'd think he would remember and ask about her :(
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Re: S3: Biggest Disappointment About Unresolved Subplots?

Postby LonelySoul » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:32 am

There are so many things to mention:

  • The importance/purpose of the hit-and-run death. It was a great sequence that never went anywhere. We see Andy talking to that random truck owner, but nothing ever happened. Who was that guy? Why is Andy such a terrible cop?
  • What, if anything, did Carl Rodd do after Cyril Pons told him about Stephen shooting himself?
  • Why didn't Cooper ever mention Annie Blackburn?!
  • What happened to Audrey?
  • What was up with all those people we saw in the Roadhouse who had booth conversations? We never see most of them again.
  • How's Miriam?
  • Did Richard Horne actually die? Or did he get sucked into a lodge? It was unclear.
  • Did Albert and Constance stay together?
  • How did no one see Dale appear on the recording in NYC, but they got footage of the experiment and Mr. C?
  • Why didn't we see more of Mike? I was bummed he only got that one job interview scene.
  • How could they possibly show Sarah eating that dude's throat and then basically not go anywhere else with that thread?
  • What, if anything, did the Pentagon do about the fact that Briggs' body showed up?
  • Speaking of Briggs, no one bothered to tell Bobby about his dad's body?
  • Where is Briggs' head?
  • Whatever happened to Mickey? (I know Jeremy Lindholm is an a-hole and a criminal, but why show him at all if his character never showed back up again?)
  • What was up with the drunk in the jail cell?
  • Where is Red and why was he with Shelly?
  • What is sparkle and how is it important in the town, if at all?
  • What was up with the sick girl in the car outside of the RR?
  • What happened to the little boy who fired the gun into the diner?

I'm sure there are others.
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