Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group

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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:55 am

Saturn's child wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:Or, he's there precisely to prevent Cooper from having a much-needed confrontation, so he can avoid facing his issues and can continue making the same mistakes, which he promptly does...


Bingo; that was my takeaway also.


Do we know for sure Cooper made a mistake?

Since we don't know what The Fireman's instructions were to Cooper, we don't know if he went by The Fireman's plan, or if he 'went rogue'. And remember, Leland told Cooper to 'find Laura'.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:20 am

Saturn's child wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:Or, he's there precisely to prevent Cooper from having a much-needed confrontation, so he can avoid facing his issues and can continue making the same mistakes, which he promptly does...


Bingo; that was my takeaway also.


I hadn’t thought of it, but I love this interpretation. This is the first perspective that’s allowed me to consider that there is any value to that sequence. Will have to mull this over further on Blu Ray rewatch.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:21 am

mtwentz wrote:And remember, Leland told Cooper to 'find Laura'.


But Leland has always been highly fallible — even as of BTW, he was denying any culpability for what happened to Laura (“I did not do these things”). Even if his intentions were good, he might have misunderstood what was going on with Laura in the Lodge.
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eyeboogers
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:00 am

mtwentz wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:Or, he's there precisely to prevent Cooper from having a much-needed confrontation, so he can avoid facing his issues and can continue making the same mistakes, which he promptly does...


Bingo; that was my takeaway also.


Do we know for sure Cooper made a mistake?

Since we don't know what The Fireman's instructions were to Cooper, we don't know if he went by The Fireman's plan, or if he 'went rogue'. And remember, Leland told Cooper to 'find Laura'.


We only know for sure due to Frost telling us that Cooper's hybris leads to his (temporary) downfall, and from the actual content of the show the Orpheus reference when Cooper leads Laura through the woods is fairly overt.

That being said, I also think it is fairly evident that he is indeed following the Fireman's plan as per the opening scene, he is simply too eager to play that game, walk with fire, and become "the magician", rather than accept being a mere mortal seeking happiness with other humans (and staying with Janey E.).
Kilmoore
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:21 am

eyeboogers wrote:It is meant to feel inauthentic, to make audiences feel cheated.

If someone punches me in the face, I don't care if they meant to do it to represent a symbolic issue. Bad writing is bad writing, even if the writers are aware that it's bad.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:23 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:It is meant to feel inauthentic, to make audiences feel cheated.

If someone punches me in the face, I don't care if they meant to do it to represent a symbolic issue. Bad writing is bad writing, even if the writers are aware that it's bad.


I've said all along that the green glove scenario is disappointing in and of itself as a component of the surface level plot, but the scene is brilliantly and disorientingly executed, functions as a parody involving fan expectations, wish fulfillment and deus ex machina, and more importantly is totally intellectually, thematically satisfying. I haven't even thought of it in pure "plot" terms for a long time, as I think that is so far from the point of what we're seeing. We're seeing, as others have said, a fantasy, an impossibility. Bob, or pure evil, can't be defeated, so he's defeated in the most ridiculous, out of leftfield way imaginable. And I absolutely love what laughingpinecone said about it. It's a great, controversial idea that follows through on the central themes of the journey while making the true finale possible, and that's what makes it great writing, imo.
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Xavi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:35 am

laughingpinecone wrote:Or, he's there precisely to prevent Cooper from having a much-needed confrontation, so he can avoid facing his issues and can continue making the same mistakes, which he promptly does...


A much need confrontation? With BOB? Seriously? What could he possibly learn from "him"? The Giant said everything Dale Cooper needed to know "You are far away" which is not far from "Wrong way."
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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:30 am

Agent Earle wrote:And the movie from 2017 is way worse. That's an even better argument.


OOOOOOKKKKK
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:22 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:And the movie from 2017 is way worse. That's an even better argument.


OOOOOOKKKKK


Yeah, you're great too.
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Xavi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:07 am

The other day I read an article about a book by a philosopher, who ventilated severe concerns about the world today; i.e. we are living in a totalitarian system ruled by centralised power companies that collect "big data." These companies know more about ourselves than our partners, more than our neighbours or even more than we ourselves. The future is not going to be any better, as technology will facilitate autonomic artificial intelligence, which evokes the fundamental question "What will be our role as human beings?" The answer was that we are "creative" beings, and that creating art (culture) is the ultimate human reaction as an attempt of understanding our world.

All in all, to me TPS3 is such artistic reaction to our world today.
MasterMastermind
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby MasterMastermind » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:11 am

Kilmoore wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:It is meant to feel inauthentic, to make audiences feel cheated.

If someone punches me in the face, I don't care if they meant to do it to represent a symbolic issue. Bad writing is bad writing, even if the writers are aware that it's bad.


Excuse me, this is the Twin Peaks: The Return Profoundly Satisfied Support Group, thank you very much! :evil:
Kilmoore
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:38 am

MasterMastermind wrote:Excuse me, this is the Twin Peaks: The Return Profoundly Satisfied Support Group, thank you very much! :evil:

Yeah I figured some one would end up calling me out on this.

I was thinking maybe there should have been a thread specifically for the disappointed and satisfied exchanging views, but seems the conversation is already dying down. Looks like TP:TR didn't hold that many people's attention for very long, it might be too late for a thread like that now.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:45 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
MasterMastermind wrote:Excuse me, this is the Twin Peaks: The Return Profoundly Satisfied Support Group, thank you very much! :evil:

Yeah I figured some one would end up calling me out on this.

I was thinking maybe there should have been a thread specifically for the disappointed and satisfied exchanging views, but seems the conversation is already dying down. Looks like TP:TR didn't hold that many people's attention for very long, it might be too late for a thread like that now.


There was a thread like that started by Jonah.

The conversation is dying down for now- the show has been over for 4 months, so with no new season or episode, it's natural there's not a lot to talk about.

Some of us have been talking about the show since it was first announced in 2014. After 3 + years of talking about the new season, it's natural that the chatter will die down. We all have lives to get back to at some point :-).
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Xavi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:07 am

mtwentz wrote:The conversation is dying down for now- the show has been over for 4 months, so with no new season or episode, it's natural there's not a lot to talk about.


Not a lot to talk about? What is this? A joke? I would love to talk about each and every detail, all kinds of theories, and interpretations, investigations, discoveries, insights, etc, etc. But, I am not a type of person that enjoys talking to a wall.

I remember discussing IE on the IMDB-boards for years and years, despite all kinds of trolls trying to ruin each civilised conversation. It almost lasted about 10 years in total before it dried up a bit, and before IMDB killed their goose with the golden eggs.

People should feel free to share their thoughts, without any restriction, but I do not have the impression that the majority on this forum shows a genuine affection to TPS3, which limits the amount of contributions. This "majority" or dominant group rather enjoys conflicts, battling debate, ridicule each and every detail, instead of engaging a fair discussion based on what's in the "movie" and based on arguments.
Kilmoore
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Kilmoore » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:20 am

Xavi wrote:People should feel free to share their thoughts, without any restriction, but I do not have the impression that the majority on this forum shows a genuine affection to TPS3, which limits the amount of contributions.

So you want people to share their thoughts without restriction, but only if they share your views on the TP:TR?

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