Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

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Novalis
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:35 pm

ozziejohn wrote:Having given it a few days since the finale, I feel that I really ought to state my allegiance to the profoundly satisfied!
This series was confounding, creepy, funny....everything I wanted really.
I've been stunned by the the Profoundly Disappointed thread - so hard to see what the dislike is all about. Posters over there have been falling over themselves to throw the most outlandish insults at the series and it's creators.
I'm convinced that TPTR breaks the fourth wall throughout and makes the viewer an integral part of the series rather than simply a passive recipient - the hanging plot lines, the unseen events, the long quiet spaces filled only with the interpretations and thoughts buzzing around your own head; these are not sloppiness or disdain for the audience - they are all intentional devices to bring you into the experience, to make you a co-creator... It's an experimental approach that obviously hasn't worked for some people.
I have loved the unresolved questions - what happened to Becky and Steven, who really IS Red, why was the janitor-guy so cagey with the police before Ruth Davenport's body was found, who was the 1-1-9 girl....not having answers gives you space to think, to have possibilities buzzing endlessly in your mind...
Lynch's exhortation to #keepthemysteryalive didn't just refer to the idea of avoiding spoilers during the show's airing, but is a core principle of the show itself.


I really like the cut of your jib. As far as I am concerned that was a superbly perceptive and honest post very clearly articulated, and refreshingly free of unnecessary hyperbole.

It might sound hackneyed to throw this in here, but I think it's very true: art is not an object to consume alongside other products but a way of engaging with objects and images and relating to them -- and sometimes not knowing how to engage but discovering it in the process. Some would add, good art is always this demanding, placing a claim on the viewer's attention and thoughtfulness. It's definitely a two way street, and requires quite a bit of effort. There's certainly no guarantees that everyone will feel as rewarded for the time and thought they put into it.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:38 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:I've been stunned by the the Profoundly Disappointed thread - so hard to see what the dislike is all about.


It's not, really. All you have to do is read.


There are many claims in the dissapointed thread about eventual rewatches (not everyone there of course). If you are feeling that the show has been aweful, I invite anyone to try and sit though 18 episodes of a typical TV show, say Dexter, and have the motivation to post a single comment about it, opposed or in favor. In fact just watch 18 episodes of a typical TV show and try to emerge with your mind intact.

Especially funny in the complaints about the TR is the use and overuse of the word "trope." As in, "oh boy, the Popping Gold Marble Head trope. I thought Lynch was better than that!"
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:39 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
Fair enough, to each his own. I nodded through most of it.


this is the bit i don't get. why stay with something for 4 months if you are shit bored?
change the channel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:43 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
Those "initially reasonable concerns" were justified by what happened (or didn't) during the later course of the series by about tenfold.
My second comment is merely a logical derivation of your comment. Taken to the extreme, granted, but still nothing but a logical derivation.


If you weren't prepared to adapt and attempt to come at the series on it's own terms, then, yes, I can see that you would be disappointed. It must be hard to have a television program upset you so much that you feel the need to mock people that enjoyed it, but that's OK. It's what the internet is for.

Your "logical derivation" is obviously anything but - so I'll let that lie.


How about the terms set by its direct predecessor, given that it was titled "Twin Peaks" and marketed and advertised as such? You know, "a continuing story", "third season", "it is happening again" and all that bollocks. As for the "mocking" part, I'd call it that when 270 pages of reasons is escorted with "so hard to see what's it all about" - who truly wants to see has plenty of explanations there to aid him.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:47 pm

Novalis wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:Having given it a few days since the finale, I feel that I really ought to state my allegiance to the profoundly satisfied!
This series was confounding, creepy, funny....everything I wanted really.
I've been stunned by the the Profoundly Disappointed thread - so hard to see what the dislike is all about. Posters over there have been falling over themselves to throw the most outlandish insults at the series and it's creators.
I'm convinced that TPTR breaks the fourth wall throughout and makes the viewer an integral part of the series rather than simply a passive recipient - the hanging plot lines, the unseen events, the long quiet spaces filled only with the interpretations and thoughts buzzing around your own head; these are not sloppiness or disdain for the audience - they are all intentional devices to bring you into the experience, to make you a co-creator... It's an experimental approach that obviously hasn't worked for some people.
I have loved the unresolved questions - what happened to Becky and Steven, who really IS Red, why was the janitor-guy so cagey with the police before Ruth Davenport's body was found, who was the 1-1-9 girl....not having answers gives you space to think, to have possibilities buzzing endlessly in your mind...
Lynch's exhortation to #keepthemysteryalive didn't just refer to the idea of avoiding spoilers during the show's airing, but is a core principle of the show itself.


I really like the cut of your jib. As far as I am concerned that was a superbly perceptive and honest post very clearly articulated, and refreshingly free of unnecessary hyperbole.

It might sound hackneyed to throw this in here, but I think it's very true: art is not an object to consume alongside other products but a way of engaging with objects and images and relating to them -- and sometimes not knowing how to engage but discovering it in the process. Some would add, good art is always this demanding, placing a claim on the viewer's attention and thoughtfulness. It's definitely a two way street, and requires quite a bit of effort. There's certainly no guarantees that everyone will feel as rewarded for the time and thought they put into it.


There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work (or should I say Clothes?). YAWN. For a minute, I thought you were actually making an argument.
Last edited by Agent Earle on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:50 pm

referendum wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
Fair enough, to each his own. I nodded through most of it.


this is the bit i don't get. why stay with something for 4 months if you are shit bored?
change the channel


Easy: because I've lived with what I came to know as "Twin Peaks" for more than 25 years now. And because I was suckered in by false advertising, starting October 2014. The rest, as they say, is history. But I'm sure you knew that already.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby rugerblackhawk357 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:00 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
referendum wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
Fair enough, to each his own. I nodded through most of it.


this is the bit i don't get. why stay with something for 4 months if you are shit bored?
change the channel


Easy: because I've lived with what I came to know as "Twin Peaks" for more than 25 years now. And because I was suckered in by false advertising, starting October 2014. The rest, as they say, is history. But I'm sure you knew that already.


literally season 1 and 2 don't matter because of episode 18. dozens (okay, maybe 0-1) film school majors have written thesis' about lynch, and they work for big media, and thus are 100%v totally correct.
Sometimes i wish i was better off dead. No wait. Not me. You.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:05 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work (or should I say Clothes?). YAWN. For a minute, I thought you were actually making an argument.


Ah, an excellent, well-thought out response to a post that says literally nothing about Lynch but rather discusses art and engagement with the audience. You have a lot to contribute.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:07 pm

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
referendum wrote:
this is the bit i don't get. why stay with something for 4 months if you are shit bored?
change the channel


Easy: because I've lived with what I came to know as "Twin Peaks" for more than 25 years now. And because I was suckered in by false advertising, starting October 2014. The rest, as they say, is history. But I'm sure you knew that already.


literally season 1 and 2 don't matter because of episode 18. dozens (okay, maybe 0-1) film school majors have written thesis' about lynch, and they work for big media, and thus are 100%v totally correct.

Or, you know, people have different opinions from you. I really wasn't expecting the odious "Big Media"/"Fake News" narrative to rear its head in this forum, but maybe Jiao Dai is truly leaking out into the real world...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:11 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
How about the terms set by its direct predecessor, given that it was titled "Twin Peaks" and marketed and advertised as such? You know, "a continuing story", "third season", "it is happening again" and all that bollocks. As for the "mocking" part, I'd call it that when 270 pages of reasons is escorted with "so hard to see what's it all about" - who truly wants to see has plenty of explanations there to aid him.


Genuine question - was it ever actually marketed as a continuing story? I'm streaming it in Australia on Stan, and it is packaged separately from the first show (also streaming on demand on the same platform) - it is literally billed as Season 1 on the platform, with the older TP billed as Season 1 and 2. Not sure if this is a quirk of Stan or whether it is the same elsewhere?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:12 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
Novalis wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:Having given it a few days since the finale, I feel that I really ought to state my allegiance to the profoundly satisfied!
This series was confounding, creepy, funny....everything I wanted really.
I've been stunned by the the Profoundly Disappointed thread - so hard to see what the dislike is all about. Posters over there have been falling over themselves to throw the most outlandish insults at the series and it's creators.
I'm convinced that TPTR breaks the fourth wall throughout and makes the viewer an integral part of the series rather than simply a passive recipient - the hanging plot lines, the unseen events, the long quiet spaces filled only with the interpretations and thoughts buzzing around your own head; these are not sloppiness or disdain for the audience - they are all intentional devices to bring you into the experience, to make you a co-creator... It's an experimental approach that obviously hasn't worked for some people.
I have loved the unresolved questions - what happened to Becky and Steven, who really IS Red, why was the janitor-guy so cagey with the police before Ruth Davenport's body was found, who was the 1-1-9 girl....not having answers gives you space to think, to have possibilities buzzing endlessly in your mind...
Lynch's exhortation to #keepthemysteryalive didn't just refer to the idea of avoiding spoilers during the show's airing, but is a core principle of the show itself.


I really like the cut of your jib. As far as I am concerned that was a superbly perceptive and honest post very clearly articulated, and refreshingly free of unnecessary hyperbole.

It might sound hackneyed to throw this in here, but I think it's very true: art is not an object to consume alongside other products but a way of engaging with objects and images and relating to them -- and sometimes not knowing how to engage but discovering it in the process. Some would add, good art is always this demanding, placing a claim on the viewer's attention and thoughtfulness. It's definitely a two way street, and requires quite a bit of effort. There's certainly no guarantees that everyone will feel as rewarded for the time and thought they put into it.


There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work. YAWN. For a minute, I though you were actually making an argument.


I take it what I wrote reminded you of something or someone you don't like much. Ah well. Thanks all the same.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:14 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work (or should I say Clothes?). YAWN. For a minute, I thought you were actually making an argument.


Ah, an excellent, well-thought out response to a post that says literally nothing about Lynch but rather discusses art and engagement with the audience. You have a lot to contribute.


I'm sure the mere thought of Lynch and his new "Twin Peaks" and whatever was/is happening with its reception was the furthest thing from his mind.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby rugerblackhawk357 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:29 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
rugerblackhawk357 wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
Easy: because I've lived with what I came to know as "Twin Peaks" for more than 25 years now. And because I was suckered in by false advertising, starting October 2014. The rest, as they say, is history. But I'm sure you knew that already.


literally season 1 and 2 don't matter because of episode 18. dozens (okay, maybe 0-1) film school majors have written thesis' about lynch, and they work for big media, and thus are 100%v totally correct.

Or, you know, people have different opinions from you. I really wasn't expecting the odious "Big Media"/"Fake News" narrative to rear its head in this forum, but maybe Jiao Dai is truly leaking out into the real world...

when 90% of news articles are gushing about the finale. nope. didn't vote for trump. voted for sanders. i've been with twin peaks since age 13, so they are telling something i intuitively know is bullshit.
Sometimes i wish i was better off dead. No wait. Not me. You.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:31 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work (or should I say Clothes?). YAWN. For a minute, I thought you were actually making an argument.


Ah, an excellent, well-thought out response to a post that says literally nothing about Lynch but rather discusses art and engagement with the audience. You have a lot to contribute.


I'm sure the mere thought of Lynch and his new "Twin Peaks" and whatever was/is happening with its reception was the furthest thing from his mind.


Well...no. But what of the actual point made? Is the discussion around art and audience worth having? I mean, more broadly, what are your thoughts on large swathes of abstract art? I picture you as more of a fan of romantic works by Constable or more representational art - striving for accurate portrayals of the outside world - rather than a fan of, say, Rothko or Bacon. This isn't a criticism btw - I love it too - but as one style amongst many. However, if you want to appreciate or understand a Rothko painting you can't use the same critical tools as you would for a Constable.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:42 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
How about the terms set by its direct predecessor, given that it was titled "Twin Peaks" and marketed and advertised as such? You know, "a continuing story", "third season", "it is happening again" and all that bollocks. As for the "mocking" part, I'd call it that when 270 pages of reasons is escorted with "so hard to see what's it all about" - who truly wants to see has plenty of explanations there to aid him.


Genuine question - was it ever actually marketed as a continuing story? I'm streaming it in Australia on Stan, and it is packaged separately from the first show (also streaming on demand on the same platform) - it is literally billed as Season 1 on the platform, with the older TP billed as Season 1 and 2. Not sure if this is a quirk of Stan or whether it is the same elsewhere?


That's always been a point of debate. I think Lynch and Frost consider it a continuation but are reluctant to call it 'Season 3'.

To be honest, it plays more like a Fire Walk With Me sequel movie than a Season 3 to the original series.

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