Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

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Deep Thought
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:43 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:
Ah, an excellent, well-thought out response to a post that says literally nothing about Lynch but rather discusses art and engagement with the audience. You have a lot to contribute.


I'm sure the mere thought of Lynch and his new "Twin Peaks" and whatever was/is happening with its reception was the furthest thing from his mind.


Well...no. But what of the actual point made? Is the discussion around art and audience worth having? I mean, more broadly, what are your thoughts on large swathes of abstract art? I picture you as more of a fan of romantic works by Constable or more representational art - striving for accurate portrayals of the outside world - rather than a fan of, say, Rothko or Bacon. This isn't a criticism btw - I love it too - but as one style amongst many. However, if you want to appreciate or understand a Rothko painting you can't use the same critical tools as you would for a Constable.


Sorry. Sign of a misspent youth. The only Constable I am familiar with is Constable Pan Am. https://youtu.be/xVV7hfbYOsg?t=35s
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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ozziejohn
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Sorry. Sign of a misspent youth. The only Constable I am familiar with is Constable Pan Am. https://youtu.be/xVV7hfbYOsg?t=35s


Haha....I, too, am familiar with the same :)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
ozziejohn wrote:I've been stunned by the the Profoundly Disappointed thread - so hard to see what the dislike is all about.


It's not, really. All you have to do is read.


There are many claims in the dissapointed thread about eventual rewatches (not everyone there of course). If you are feeling that the show has been aweful, I invite anyone to try and sit though 18 episodes of a typical TV show, say Dexter, and have the motivation to post a single comment about it, opposed or in favor. In fact just watch 18 episodes of a typical TV show and try to emerge with your mind intact.

Especially funny in the complaints about the TR is the use and overuse of the word "trope." As in, "oh boy, the Popping Gold Marble Head trope. I thought Lynch was better than that!"


My wife and I did the entire 18 hour marathon from 6 AM our time until midnight. Definitely a crazy experience. However, I have no issue saying that 17/18 rendered the re-watchability of the previous episodes borderline negligible. I've said this before, but the Mitchum Bros solely seem to exist to fly Cooper to TP and play the straight men during the Madballs-Bob showdown. That being said -- crazy friggin event and I wouldn't change it for the world. Would I watch 1-16 full throttle without f-fwding to certain scenes... definitely not.

And for reference, we have sat through entire seasons of "It's Always Sunny..." (like 12+ hours) and never had the reaction of -- well, episodes 1-3 were worthless, let's skip 'em. YEAH, I KNOW, totally different genre/throughline, but not that far off from Dumbland or some sh*t like that. Also sat through The Cremaster series, and that was friggin painful...

Just saying, I LIKED it, but there is a middle ground. And I've enjoyed reading the multiple theories on here (and agree quite a bit with most). Just my 2 cents, I probably shouldn't even be poking my head in here, but... like I said... some good hypotheses abound. It's not all FAKE NEWS :) . The fact that my wife HATED it so much (only certain episodes, 18 being one) but is still willing to dissect it with me is a good thing.
Last edited by cgs027 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ozziejohn
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:55 pm

cgs027 wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:
It's not, really. All you have to do is read.


There are many claims in the dissapointed thread about eventual rewatches (not everyone there of course). If you are feeling that the show has been aweful, I invite anyone to try and sit though 18 episodes of a typical TV show, say Dexter, and have the motivation to post a single comment about it, opposed or in favor. In fact just watch 18 episodes of a typical TV show and try to emerge with your mind intact.

Especially funny in the complaints about the TR is the use and overuse of the word "trope." As in, "oh boy, the Popping Gold Marble Head trope. I thought Lynch was better than that!"


My wife and I did the entire 18 hour marathon from 6 AM our time until midnight. Definitely a crazy experience. However, I have no issue saying that 17/18 rendered the re-watchability of the previous episodes borderline negligible. I've said this before, but the Mitchum Bros solely seem to exist to fly Cooper to TP and play the straight men during the Madballs-Bob showdown. That being said -- crazy friggin event and I wouldn't change it for the world. Would I watch 1-16 full throttle without f-fwding to certain scenes... definitely not.

And for reference, we have sat through entire seasons of "It's Always Sunny..." (like 12+ hours) and never had the reaction of -- well, episodes 1-3 were worthless, let's skip 'em. YEAH, I KNOW, totally different genre/throughline, but not that far off from Dumbland or some sh*t like that. Also sat through The Cremaster series, and that was friggin painful...

Just saying, I LIKED it, but there is a middle ground. And I've enjoyed reading the multiple theories on here (and agree quite a bit with most). Just my 2 cents, I probably shouldn't even be poking my head in here, but... like I said... some good hypotheses abound. It's not all FAKE NEWS :) . The fact that my wife HATED it so much but is still willing to dissect it with me is a good thing.


Wow. Kudos to you for doing the marathon! I haven't started the rewatch yet, but I have a feeling that the ending 2 parts will cast the preceding 16 in an interesting new light...I'll definitely be looking at the Roadhouse scenes with fresh eyes, and will be looking for the presence of dreamers other than Cooper.... probably need a little break first though!
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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:02 pm

There we go - primitive monkeys versus the enlightened worshipers of The Emperor and His Work (or should I say Clothes?). YAWN. For a minute, I thought you were actually making an argument.


there we go then
because i liked the series and you didn't
i am a
primitive monkey
and you aren't.

that's great.

yrs, rhesus

positive
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
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Deep Thought
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:07 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
There are many claims in the dissapointed thread about eventual rewatches (not everyone there of course). If you are feeling that the show has been aweful, I invite anyone to try and sit though 18 episodes of a typical TV show, say Dexter, and have the motivation to post a single comment about it, opposed or in favor. In fact just watch 18 episodes of a typical TV show and try to emerge with your mind intact.

Especially funny in the complaints about the TR is the use and overuse of the word "trope." As in, "oh boy, the Popping Gold Marble Head trope. I thought Lynch was better than that!"


My wife and I did the entire 18 hour marathon from 6 AM our time until midnight. Definitely a crazy experience. However, I have no issue saying that 17/18 rendered the re-watchability of the previous episodes borderline negligible. I've said this before, but the Mitchum Bros solely seem to exist to fly Cooper to TP and play the straight men during the Madballs-Bob showdown. That being said -- crazy friggin event and I wouldn't change it for the world. Would I watch 1-16 full throttle without f-fwding to certain scenes... definitely not.

And for reference, we have sat through entire seasons of "It's Always Sunny..." (like 12+ hours) and never had the reaction of -- well, episodes 1-3 were worthless, let's skip 'em. YEAH, I KNOW, totally different genre/throughline, but not that far off from Dumbland or some sh*t like that. Also sat through The Cremaster series, and that was friggin painful...

Just saying, I LIKED it, but there is a middle ground. And I've enjoyed reading the multiple theories on here (and agree quite a bit with most). Just my 2 cents, I probably shouldn't even be poking my head in here, but... like I said... some good hypotheses abound. It's not all FAKE NEWS :) . The fact that my wife HATED it so much but is still willing to dissect it with me is a good thing.


Wow. Kudos to you for doing the marathon! I haven't started the rewatch yet, but I have a feeling that the ending 2 parts will cast the preceding 16 in an interesting new light...I'll definitely be looking at the Roadhouse scenes with fresh eyes, and will be looking for the presence of dreamers other than Cooper.... probably need a little break first though!


I would love to be able to watch each scene someday with the clarity of every scene in MD, but I tend to think that this was not the intent of TR as an ensemble story. I am entertaining the idea that each scene plays role in the overall narrative, akin to IE. The Roadhouse scenes are the low hanging fruit of this kind of interpretation. If they can be “cracked” then others will fall into place (maybe).
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Deep Thought
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:08 pm

He he, it definitely feels like there are some monkeys throwing poop around the forum sometimes. :D
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
cgs027
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:10 pm

Deep Thought wrote:He he, it definitely feels like there are some monkeys throwing poop around the forum sometimes. :D


That's just Judy.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby BloodyHeartland » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:10 pm

I just finished this afternoon and while I would like to let it sit, my initial thoughts er on the side of satisfied, though not without some reservations. Ultimately I think I'll have to rewatch the whole series; despite having started only a few years ago, not every detail is fresh in my mind. That said, it's part of why I enjoyed it. So many stories are clean cut, even something like Lost didn't necessitate a rewatch because it was fairly straightforward. This, depending on your interpretation, leads to much more nuance.

I see theories about multiple timelines and universes, etc. Not going to say anyone is wrong, but if this is in fact the end, my thinking is that this is indicative of most of the series having been a dream, and we are only in the waking world when Richard comes to in the motel.

Most use this trope to justify nonsense and to say none of anything actually mattered, but here I feel that it fits very well thematically and is an original way of exploring a character. Perhaps it was not always in the cards to have it play out this way, but maybe it is better than what was originally conceived.

All the reports to Diane, her colors matching the Black Lodge, the dreams taking place there and eventually actually going there, meeting an evil personification of yourself (can't forget "I did not kill anybody"), being trapped for so long...among so many other things. It's a lot more interesting to peel these things back to get to a deeper truth, of the man known as Richard, perhaps who was once an agent on a failed case, who maybe had a failed relationship, stuck in the past.

FWWM was centered around Laura for sure, and who knows if there really was a girl who was murdered - whatever the case, I feel this story of a little girl down the lane might be projections from Richard, romanticized thoughts of a good person in the wrong place at the wrong time, opressed by the ever present supernatural Jowday, when really this was a paranoid person who made her own bad life decisions and was stuck at a dead end job.

And to that end, it could be a commentary on society as a whole getting stuck on these tales when life can be far more dull. Ultimately life is what you make of it.

As far as actual artistic merit goes, that's a bit difficult to say...like others I got a bit tired of Dougie, and it does feel like there was a lot of padding in general, but at the same time it was a breath of fresh air to get something not so formulaic in the medium for once; the highs and lows were made all the better for not knowing when or where they would come.

That all said, I think I'll take some time to read everyone else's conclusions on both sides.
Cipher
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:21 am

Re: Richard's dream:

How does that track with the shift to Laura's POV at the end, or her scream blowing out the lights at the Palmer's house? Or even the names Chalfront/Tremond coming up again in real life (he dreamed them before he'd ever met the woman at the door)?

I think it's thematically satisfying to contemplate what the series would mean if it were all representative of "Richard's" inferiority, and I think it invites that reading to that end and extent, but I feel like the final shots shatter it on a narrative "this is what happened" level.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mb3 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:45 pm

Loved it from start to finish even though there were some minor parts that I didn't care for that much.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby chalfont » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:07 am

I was on the fence for the first 2/3 rds of the season. Really picked up around ep12/13/14 and loved the final 2 hours.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:20 pm

Just re-watched 17 and 18 last night. Wow, wow, wow! Talk about ending on a high note- Lynch/Frost really knocked it out of the park. I think those two episodes, as well as many others, will never grow old on me.

I
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm

I think "The Return" ruined my life. :mrgreen: Since the show is over I tried to watch different television shows and movies but I find it really hard to muster up any enthusiasm and interest for something other "Twin Peaks". Which is a shame because I regularly write reviews on a german movie site and I enjoy that process very much. But at the moment I just don´t care about anything else, so I will just rewatch these 18 hours - again.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:47 pm

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:I think "The Return" ruined my life. :mrgreen: Since the show is over I tried to watch different television shows and movies but I find it really hard to muster up any enthusiasm and interest for something other "Twin Peaks". Which is a shame because I regularly write reviews on a german movie site and I enjoy that process very much. But at the moment I just don´t care about anything else, so I will just rewatch these 18 hours - again.


Ha, I think something similar is happening to me. I totally forgot about Rick and Morty and seem to be unmotivated to catch up (that will correct itself eventually).

This was the most engrossing television experience I've had since the end of Breaking Bad. Very different kind of shows and experiences, of course. Breaking Bad was almost flawless traditional storytelling with stellar character development. Twin Peaks seemed to have almost no interest in anything traditional. And it definitely wasn't flawless. I have almost no quibbles with Breaking Bad, and I still have problems with certain aspects of The Return. As I do with almost every Lynch film. But all those things go hand in hand with the moments of great, transcendent visceral genius.

Breaking Bad did stick with me a while after it was over, but the finale didn't. The Twin Peaks finale, on the other hand... I don't know if I've ever had an experience like it. I was utterly shocked and perplexed. My first impressions were not positive, and while I knew I had to process it, I wasn't sure if I'd ever come to terms with it. But I couldn't get it out of my head. I still can't. I'm haunted by it. And my appreciation for it grows with every passing day. I still need to process it of course, but I'm already plotting how I want to approach rewatching the series. Still haven't done that with Breaking Bad as much as I loved the show.

I'm fully embracing keeping the mystery alive. I'm grateful to have something to plunder the depths of for years to come, my take continuously evolving no doubt.

I already miss those moments when the credits fade to black and I await for only a brief moment what kind of new experience would begin to unfold with the first images and sounds of a new part, my focus primed to take it all in. I hope I have that experience again someday... not with Twin Peaks necessarily but with anything in this medium.

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