Annie and Dale

[N. Needleman]

Or it's a meme he's been hearing for 26 years.

[Agent Earle]

So he hatches up a perfect plan to screw over all those pests for ever - come Season 3 and all the tie-ins, we'll pretend Annie hardly even existed. Wanna know how she is? Fuck 'em, let 'em wonder if she is (was)...

[N. Needleman]

So he hatches up a perfect plan to screw over all those pests for ever - come Season 3 and all the tie-ins, we'll pretend Annie hardly even existed. Wanna know how she is? Fuck 'em, let 'em wonder if she is (was)...

Do you ever stop and consider "maybe I am too overly attached to my very specific view of what this show is and should always be focused on? Do I ever maybe not sound entirely rational"?

[Agent Earle]

So he hatches up a perfect plan to screw over all those pests for ever - come Season 3 and all the tie-ins, we'll pretend Annie hardly even existed. Wanna know how she is? Fuck 'em, let 'em wonder if she is (was)...

Do you ever stop and consider "maybe I am too overly attached to my very specific view of what this show is and should always be focused on? Do I ever maybe not sound entirely rational"?

Do you? Don't need an answer, btw (or do I?).

[tresojos]

annie was always the piece that got dale in the lodge. both in tulpa/manufactured for a pupose and plot device sense. i mean , there was always something weird about her and everything that happened to her. and i think her fate has to remain a mystery ,iff not, hows annie loses it power.

[DoppelBocker]

I think the most obvious answer is David Lynch has reflected on/off about the series years after filming FWWM over the many years since (Annie did kind of feel written in place of Audrey all of a sudden due to obvious cast issues and lack of someone steering the ship. However, the actress played her well and she seemed fit after a while.).

Intuition guides David Lynch and it seems he looks at things in an uncompromising manner. He's continued telling the story but just simply fills something into fill a gap he may think works better to suit the original creative idea leaving it to the audience to wrestle with an explanation or see a retcon for what it is.

Edit: It would've been so easy to just simply have Naido turn out to be Annie while leaving what happened to real Diane being just simply she was taken to convenience store and tulpa created of her to wed half sister Janie-E to Dougie. I kind of liked the notion of Coop's taperecorder named Diane (perhaps just affectionately names recorder after secretary likes to tease/play around with when visits FBI HQ being Laura Dern as opposed to actually sending messages to her). That I think would've worked much better while changing little.

[Taperecorder]

It would've been so easy to just simply have Naido turn out to be Annie while leaving what happened to real Diane being just simply she was taken to convenience store and tulpa created of her to wed half sister Janie-E to Dougie. I That I think would've worked much better while changing little.

This. Something like this would have been great. Just something to tie her back in or make a little sense.

Ps. This is not me being overly attached to a very specific view of anything other than the show/story that was given to us and that I have watched so many times over the last 23 years.

[Jasper]

It's frequently indicated that people have forgotten things in TPTR, for example David Bowie's appearance in FWWM is suddenly recalled by Gordon and Albert, but appears to be a memory they'd lost. Maybe all significant memory of Annie has been expunged. After all, Norma didn't seem concerned about her at all in Episode 29...

I definitely don't think that Albert and Gordon forgot the Jeffries visit. I think that what they forgot was the moment that Jeffries pointed at Cooper and asked "Who do you think that is there?"

[ThumbsUp]

and i think her fate has to remain a mystery ,iff not, hows annie loses it power.

Bingo. I like that.

For me, the character was introduced so hurriedly and sloppily anyway, that it was clear she was just a blatant means to get the Cooper character into the Lodge. I also thought the character was boring as hell, so I'm fine with her just being essentially blanked out of the story 25 years later.

[Wonderful & Strange]

I think over time fans have overblown the importance of Annie. Cooper barely knew her. He had much more history with Diane. And Annie's character was never originally something Lynch was interested in. So why bring her back if you're not interested? Simply because some fans are over invested in her?

[sylvia_north]

It would've been so easy to just simply have Naido turn out to be Annie while leaving what happened to real Diane being just simply she was taken to convenience store and tulpa created of her to wed half sister Janie-E to Dougie. I That I think would've worked much better while changing little.

This. Something like this would have been great. Just something to tie her back in or make a little sense.

Ps. This is not me being overly attached to a very specific view of anything other than the show/story that was given to us and that I have watched so many times over the last 23 years.

Yep I'm damn attached to the facts of 2x29 and FWWM, and anyone who says they aren't is fooling themselves.

Annie and Cooper in the motel... How was Annie, then? Or should I say Linda? wink, wink
Maybe that happens in another bubble universe. Maybe in this one, Diane came to Twin Peaks and romanced Dale and won Miss TP.

Diane Podcast is totally on board with Diane being the love interest, they could 'tell' Diane was in love with Cooper, and Cooper had been sharing all his innermost thoughts and work secrets with her, they were bonded soul mates, and so it all comes together naturally in the end. (They also think they're working some kind of magic to reverse the rape and help Diane re-enter the world, idk.)

I personally think something happens when BOB ball is shattered, and things go sideways and it might not even be the original timeline and the original Dale, call him D2. Maybe we even see D3 coming out of the lodge and meeting with Diane, and D4 leaving the second motel and finding Carrie. So I'm not too concerned about this character's motivations or the absurdity of a deformed Asian Lodge woman becoming Cooper's raped, abducted and duplicated former secretary. Hell, the bubble universe Mr C entered might be a one where Annie never existed, and Laura might not be dead, and Cooper and Cole knows the Sheriff's Station gang another way. But I digress..

Heather Graham's opinion: http://www.sj-r.com/entertainment/20170 ... -character

[Agent Earle]

I think over time fans have overblown the importance of Annie. Cooper barely knew her. He had much more history with Diane. And Annie's character was never originally something Lynch was interested in. So why bring her back if you're not interested? Simply because some fans are over invested in her?

If anything, Annie's importance was overblown by the original series itself (Cooper barely knew her, yet he risked everything for her), fans had nothing to do with it - they just embraced what the story (back when there was still a story to talk about) has told/shown them and were foolish to expect the main creators did also and would follow the groundwork laid (for and by them) by the original. Little did we know they were only interested in pursuing their own little vanity project (and maybe in making a little bit of extra money on the side). Oh, well, bring on The Yellow Stocking Dudette (She of the Sibling Relation to The Green Glove Dude)!

[Novalis]

I think over time fans have overblown the importance of Annie. Cooper barely knew her. He had much more history with Diane. And Annie's character was never originally something Lynch was interested in. So why bring her back if you're not interested? Simply because some fans are over invested in her?

If anything, Annie's importance was overblown by the original series itself (Cooper barely knew her, yet he risked everything for her), fans had nothing to do with it - they just embraced what the story (back when there was still a story to talk about) has told/shown them and were foolish to expect the main creators did also and would follow the groundwork laid (for and by them) by the original. Little did we know they were only interested in pursuing their own little vanity project (and maybe in making a little bit of extra money on the side). Oh, well, bring on The Yellow Stocking Dudette (She of the Sibling Relation to The Green Glove Dude)!

Annie's importance was overblown partly because the S2 cliffhanger sees Cooper's doppelganger using her name as a whip to lash Cooper with. In the last 25 yrs Annie acquired an undue excess of importance because of that, but in all honesty the cliffhanger could have ended on a million different lines. In retrospect, that S2 ending plays very differently to how it was registered in the imagination of us fans during those 25yrs. From the vantage point of the Return, it now looks like it just so happened that at the moment the doppelganger was freed, Annie was someone Cooper's dynamic and moving interest in people was temporarily concerned with. The point of 'How's Annie? How's Annie? How's Annie?' was not to be a proper question, a crucial plot point, that ultimately required the resolution of an answer, but something purely instrumental: a way to rub salt in the wound -- a way to establish the doppelganger as an entity with access to Cooper's feelings and the ability to hurt/punish them.

[Agent Earle]

I think over time fans have overblown the importance of Annie. Cooper barely knew her. He had much more history with Diane. And Annie's character was never originally something Lynch was interested in. So why bring her back if you're not interested? Simply because some fans are over invested in her?

If anything, Annie's importance was overblown by the original series itself (Cooper barely knew her, yet he risked everything for her), fans had nothing to do with it - they just embraced what the story (back when there was still a story to talk about) has told/shown them and were foolish to expect the main creators did also and would follow the groundwork laid (for and by them) by the original. Little did we know they were only interested in pursuing their own little vanity project (and maybe in making a little bit of extra money on the side). Oh, well, bring on The Yellow Stocking Dudette (She of the Sibling Relation to The Green Glove Dude)!

Annie's importance was overblown partly because the S2 cliffhanger sees Cooper's doppelganger using her name as a whip to lash Cooper with. In the last 25 yrs Annie acquired an undue excess of importance because of that, but in all honesty the cliffhanger could have ended on a million different lines. In retrospect, that S2 ending plays very differently to how it was registered in the imagination of us fans during those 25yrs. From the vantage point of the Return, it now looks like it just so happened that at the moment the doppelganger was freed, Annie was someone Cooper's dynamic and moving interest in people was temporarily concerned with. The point of 'How's Annie? How's Annie? How's Annie?' was not to be a proper question, a crucial plot point, that ultimately required the resolution of an answer, but something purely instrumental: a way to rub salt in the wound -- a way to establish the doppelganger as an entity with access to Cooper's feelings and the ability to hurt/punish them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I GET ALL THAT and agree with it 100%. However, as I and numerous others have also already pointed out, what bugs me is that Cooper in the new series never gives a passing thought as to what became of the one on account of whom he's been screwed for the past 25 years. Moreover, the new show's one reference to Annie (Hawk's "that girl who went there with Cooper" line), dropped as it was without even mentioning her connection to the town, does nothing to convince me of the scriptwriters' diligence when it comes to things such as continuity, story progression, narrative coherence, character development etc. (then again, few things in The Return do). Couple that with the sloppy, brazen way the character gets the shaft in The Secret History book and the whole thing veers dangeriously close to retcon in my view. No, I've never expected for the show to branch out in the direction of Annie's life story after 1989; what I've expected is that she's at least acknowledged as a part of the show's conscience and legacy. So unless Frost's next book doesn't somehow make amends for all that, I'm calling it major BS on the part of the creators.

[Novalis]

I don't disagree with you.

I'm not trying to justify this as a creative choice, personally I think it's a bad choice. Reducing Norma's sister to 'some girl' is a terrible way to carry on. It's better in some ways not to mention her at all than to mis-credit Annie as a random no-one.

Sadly though it's one of the kinds of creative choice that I see as part and parcel of Lynch's way of working. He creates and decreates, he giveth and he taketh away like some lordly demiurge ignorant of fans' human feelings and investments. It's very unfortunate and telling that women never get fleshed out enough, and apart from a select few favourites who weren't even part of this universe before (i.e. Chrysta Bell, Laura Dern) can't seem to be disposable enough. This is why I always say that I lower my expectations accordingly when I watch something Lynch-written. I'm far from being without criticism of Lynch. Or Frost for that matter.

I steadfastly believe that writers and artists do incur responsibility for their works, and for depicting the world, and for portraying relationships and assigning value to their representations of people, fictional or not. On those fronts I deem Lynch and Frost to be failing us, and failing themselves as a matter of regularity in this season. OTOH I try to bear in mind that the way Lynch plays with 'ideas' and indexes all his creations back to his transcendental fishing trips means that he himself perhaps doesn't see these characters as being as flesh-and-blood as we do. Maybe to him they're all just so many straw dogs to be arranged on the chessboard and swept away at his whim. He can be a cold fish, let's face it.