Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

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Isis Unveiled
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:45 am

Meh, what a typo. Or perhaps a freudian slip?
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:35 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:Meh, what a typo. Or perhaps a freudian slip?


thanks for a very good post, your previous one, not the one i quoted above.

i recognize parts of that interview you are talking about and i too have been looking for it again.. on a search i came up with this, but it doesn't mention the source or any more from the interview. that large parts of Secret History might be scrapped material from a non fiction book on the occult's history in America could very well hold some truth. it is certainly very well researched!

Luke: "Did you understand what David Lynch's Mulholland Drive was all about?"

Mark: "It started as a conversation David and I were having about a sequel to Twin Peaks. We wanted to take the Audrey Horn character, played by Cheryl, to Hollywood. I proposed Mulholland Drive, which I lived on, as a title. He sold it as a pilot to ABC and then convinced the French that if he shot 45 more minutes, he could make something out of it. I haven't seen it. I heard it was a mess. I knew that the pilot was a mess.

"David's strength and weakness is that he is often able to transcend story because he's such a master creating mood. His failing is that he's not a strong storyteller. He doesn't have a lot of interest in telling a story. He's not as interested in character as fragments of personality. He's a surrealist."

Luke: "He's got a great eye for hot looking women."

Mark smiles: "That was always one of his strengths. The mistake that people make about David is that they assume he's an ironist [saying the opposite of what he means]. He's not. He's a sincere simple guy. He doesn't work things out. He's not that good in logic. When people spend a lot of energy trying to figure out exactly what he meant by Mulholland Drive, I can assure you that he didn't know.


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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:39 am

come to think about it, Episode 8 is one of the best examples i've seen of meshing Frost's interests and writings with Lynch's visual and audiotorial style.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:59 am

claaa7 wrote:come to think about it, Episode 8 is one of the best examples i've seen of meshing Frost's interests and writings with Lynch's visual and audiotorial style.


Do you mean Part 8 of the new show? If so, I agree wholeheartedly.

Episode 8 of the original show is also an interesting case study, if you do a script-to-screen comparison. DKL seems to have reconfigured the dialogue of nearly every scene on set, keeping the essential narrative flow and tenor of the scenes, but making the words less "writerly" and more natural. I think it's an essential study for anyone who feels that DKL isn't a particularly good writer. The main scenes where he lets Frost's dialogue play out exactly as written are the scenes that deserve to be a bit overwritten: Big Ed's backstory and Garland's dream.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:32 am

claaa7 wrote:
Isis Unveiled wrote:Meh, what a typo. Or perhaps a freudian slip?

thanks for a very good post, your previous one, not the one i quoted above.

i recognize parts of that interview you are talking about and i too have been looking for it again.. on a search i came up with this, but it doesn't mention the source or any more from the interview. that large parts of Secret History might be scrapped material from a non fiction book on the occult's history in America could very well hold some truth. it is certainly very well researched!


You are welcome and thank you for the compliment.

The interview you have quoted couldn't have been the one that I am referring to because I distinctly remember Frost saying that he had not yet seen Mulholland Drive, but that he had only heard that it was (and I quote) 'a mess.'

Meaning the interview was probably around the year Mulholland Drive was in theaters.

I also remember the interviewer asking Mark Frost about his billionaire friend sitting at the bar, they were in some restaurant in CA. The interviewer made a comment that the man at the bar looked more like a stoned surfer than a billionaire businessman. Obviously I can't remember who [i]that['i] guy was either.

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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:48 am

Isis Unveiled wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
Isis Unveiled wrote:Meh, what a typo. Or perhaps a freudian slip?

thanks for a very good post, your previous one, not the one i quoted above.

i recognize parts of that interview you are talking about and i too have been looking for it again.. on a search i came up with this, but it doesn't mention the source or any more from the interview. that large parts of Secret History might be scrapped material from a non fiction book on the occult's history in America could very well hold some truth. it is certainly very well researched!


You are welcome and thank you for the compliment.

The interview you have quoted couldn't have been the one that I am referring to because I distinctly remember Frost saying that he had not yet seen Mulholland Drive, but that he had only heard that it was (and I quote) 'a mess.'

Meaning the interview was probably around the year Mulholland Drive was in theaters.

I also remember the interviewer asking Mark Frost about his billionaire friend sitting at the bar, they were in some restaurant in CA. The interviewer made a comment that the man at the bar looked more like a stoned surfer than a billionaire businessman. Obviously I can't remember who [i]that['i] guy was either.

I'm useless!


I believe the interview you are looking for might be this one: http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profil ... _frost.htm

Personally I wouldn't trust this source too much though. It's hardly an official or public record of statements made, and the transcription doesn't even get Sherilyn Fenn's name right.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:52 pm

Novalis wrote:I believe the interview you are looking for might be this one: http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profil ... _frost.htm

Personally I wouldn't trust this source too much though. It's hardly an official or public record of statements made, and the transcription doesn't even get Sherilyn Fenn's name right.


THANK YOU!

While the person who transcribed this wrote Cheryl instead of Sherilyn, to say that it's an unreliable source, I think, is a stretch. It's not as if this transcriber imagined points of Frost's conversation to the point where they were fictionalizing paragraphs of his words. If that were the case, I'm sure it would have found its way to Mark and he would have his lawyer's shut them down for it.

Just my two cents.

From the interview:

Luke: "Did you understand what David Lynch's Mulholland Drive was all about?"

Mark: "It started as a conversation David and I were having about a sequel to Twin Peaks. We wanted to take the Audrey Horn character, played by Cheryl, to Hollywood. I proposed Mulholland Drive, which I lived on, as a title. He sold it as a pilot to ABC and then convinced the French that if he shot 45 more minutes, he could make something out of it. I haven't seen it. I heard it was a mess. I knew that the pilot was a mess.

"David's strength and weakness is that he is often able to transcend story because he's such a master creating mood. His failing is that he's not a strong storyteller. He doesn't have a lot of interest in telling a story. He's not as interested in character as fragments of personality. He's a surrealist."

Luke: "He's got a great eye for hot looking women."

Mark smiles: "That was always one of his strengths. The mistake that people make about David is that they assume he's an ironist [saying the opposite of what he means]. He's not. He's a sincere simple guy. He doesn't work things out. He's not that good in logic. When people spend a lot of energy trying to figure out exactly what he meant by Mulholland Drive, I can assure you that he didn't know.


So that's pretty revealing... moving on:

Luke: "Where do you think your creative impulse comes from?"

Mark: "Curiosity. It comes from a desire to understand reality and people. It began with an unsatisfied to know more deeply what was going on, not only out there but within me."


Curiosity, the driving force of human evolution, and often the fate sealer, as well.

Luke: "I've found in my 100 interviews with producers, that the event in their life that has changed them the most is parenthood. They want to make product that they can show to their kids. They become more socially responsible."

Mark: "One of the documentaries I worked on years ago was about the poet Robert Bly. He said about people stuck in that adolescent rut that they were in 'the moon palace.' They were still seeing the world by moonlight, which is dominated by magical thinking and adolescent desire. And he said that the only sure cure for getting somebody out of the moon palace was changing diapers because that grounds you in the reality of every day life."


I have a record by Noisia & TeeBee called Moon Palace, released on Subtitles Recordings. I had always wondered what that was a reference to, then I remember seeing Crowley use it once or twice, as well.

Luke: "I've found out that some people became producers through the route of procuring bodies to satisfy the sexual urges of stars or directors or producers."

Mark: "It's a time-honored path to the top throughout history. Hollywood is like a medieval courtiers system. There are fiefdoms of power that are like principalities where money and power get concentrated. Those people behave like the Medicis, usually with the same lack of moral acuity. They are city-states. That's human nature."

Luke: "See the corruption inherent in the system.

"The people who go to synagogue to pray three times a day are not going to make movies."

Mark: "They are the pillars secretly holding up the world that the Satanists in the business are trying to tear down."

Luke: "I know from my own religious community, that if you were ever to do anything truly creative, your community would throw you out."

Mark: "That's the tradeoff. I think of myself first as a writer. It's a writer's job to illuminate the human condition, not to judge the human condition. And to illuminate the human condition, you have to straddle many different communities and worlds. A producer's job is to make money for everybody around him, primarily himself. So writers and producers are often at odds with each other. I became a producer purely as a defensive gesture, to protect my property. The writer in Hollywood might as well have a sign in his back that says, 'Kick me.' The industry, in its heart of hearts, doesn't trust or respect writers. It sees them as a necessary evil."


Strangely absent from this interview is his mention of work an a non-fiction Occult history of the USA, must have been another interview I read that in. Oh well.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:24 pm

Most of that interview seems legit, but the "Satanists" reference is pretty odd and doesn't sound like Mark. Wonder if he meant it a tad ironically or was jerking the interviewer's chain, and the tone doesn't come across on print? He does have a very dry sense of humor in interviews.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:30 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Most of that interview seems legit, but the "Satanists" reference is pretty odd and doesn't sound like Mark. Wonder if he meant it a tad ironically or was jerking the interviewer's chain, and the tone doesn't come across on print? He does have a very dry sense of humor in interviews.


If you read the thing Luke says right before Frost's satanist comment it makes more sense:

"The people who go to synagogue to pray three times a day are not going to make movies."


Those people praying, THOSE are the people holding up the pillars to the world the satanists in the biz are trying to bring down.

He's saying that anyone who is anyone that is a producer of worth in Hollywood got there not because of their morality but because they made their employers the most money by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Given the connection that godlessness has to the entertainment industry, I'd say it's pretty accurate & honest.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:18 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
claaa7 wrote:come to think about it, Episode 8 is one of the best examples i've seen of meshing Frost's interests and writings with Lynch's visual and audiotorial style.


Do you mean Part 8 of the new show? If so, I agree wholeheartedly.

Episode 8 of the original show is also an interesting case study, if you do a script-to-screen comparison. DKL seems to have reconfigured the dialogue of nearly every scene on set, keeping the essential narrative flow and tenor of the scenes, but making the words less "writerly" and more natural. I think it's an essential study for anyone who feels that DKL isn't a particularly good writer. The main scenes where he lets Frost's dialogue play out exactly as written are the scenes that deserve to be a bit overwritten: Big Ed's backstory and Garland's dream.


yes sorry, i meant Part 8 of The Return.. as soon as the words White Sands, 1945 popped up on the screen and the atom bomb test countdown begun i had strong flashbacks to The Secret History. that was the one time that it felt like Frost had let us in on a big secret of the new show with his book. the entirety of episode 8 is so strong in all of its departments and it can stand out as an excellent little mythology prequel movie in its own right. what i love about it most is that it explores some of that mythology that was established in TSHoTP through PURE CINEMA. there's not much dialouge yet through sound and picture it evokes a rather clear narrative and i was certainly blown away in the same way that Episode 29, Eraserhead, the last 30 minutes of Mulholland Drive, etc., effected me the first time i saw them...

interesting about Part 8, that's one script i believe i haven't read. i know The Giant was an original idea of Lynch that was presented to Frost but as you say the written dialouge is probably all Frost as Lynch only got a story credit.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Cde. » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:05 am

Part 8 seems like the perfect opportunity for Frost and Lynch to indulge a lot of their greatest interests: the occult, historical fiction, innocence vs demonic evil, movies, the 1950s, the atomic bomb.
The series as a whole seems like one where they've found a lot of common ground and reached a similar wavelength, to the extent that it's often impossible to determine who came up with what. It's probably their closest collaboration since the pilot.
claaa7 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
claaa7 wrote:interesting about Part 8, that's one script i believe i haven't read. i know The Giant was an original idea of Lynch that was presented to Frost but as you say the written dialouge is probably all Frost as Lynch only got a story credit.

The written dialogue largely wasn't used. It's as with part 29, for which Lynch wasn't credited as a writer at all despite rewriting it very significantly.
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Re: Philip Jeffries learned the horrific truth about Twin Peaks before we, the viewers did...

Postby Isis Unveiled » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:40 am

Cde. wrote:Part 8 seems like the perfect opportunity for Frost and Lynch to indulge a lot of their greatest interests: the occult, historical fiction, innocence vs demonic evil, movies, the 1950s, the atomic bomb.
The series as a whole seems like one where they've found a lot of common ground and reached a similar wavelength, to the extent that it's often impossible to determine who came up with what. It's probably their closest collaboration since the pilot.


The written dialogue largely wasn't used. It's as with part 29, for which Lynch wasn't credited as a writer at all despite rewriting it very significantly.


Don't forget that Mark Frost is credited for having directed the last episode of the first season.
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