Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

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candystorecowboy
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Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby candystorecowboy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:08 pm

Hello everyone!

This won't sound new and groundbreaking to you, but I feel like at this point there is a certain amount of people like me around here who are not quite sure what to make out of Twin Peaks: The Return overall. For months I've been lurking around The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group thread (let's say that its darker tone and overarching negativity towards Twin Peaks: The Return makes it the equivalent of the Black Lodge in the realm of Dugpa forums) thinking of making a post, then, hours before the finale premiere I actually prepared a post but stumbled upon the fact that the registrations were closed, so I scrapped it, then almost reluctantly I started to watch the finale and then… Electricity buzzed and a mysterious thing started to happen: my frustration, anger, annoyance and disappointment started to change to contemplation, acceptance and peace. As if I was suddenly waking up at home after experiencing the longest nightmare of my life.

I'd like to offer a slightly different take on this endless stream of theories, interpretations, dismissals and regrets that could perhaps help those who are disappointed at a much bigger scale and were absolutely crushed by the final two episodes. Or maybe give those who think that something is yrev, very wrong about the series outcome another perspective. You can be sure that I feel for you - not that I absolutely hate Dougie, but I honestly consider that choosing him as the main "plot device" for more than a dozen of episodes was a failure on Lynch/Frost part. I'm actually amazed how Novalis in his wonderful post from The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group thread (aka Disappointed's White Lodge doppelganger):
viewtopic.php?p=108606#p108606
- how he has managed to find so much meaning in Dougie's storyline. In a way this makes me question reasons for my own negative impressions and the basis for my conclusions that seem to be stuck in a loop without any means for a satisfying resolution.

My relationship with cinema has always been deeply personal. I tend reflect on anything that I enjoy watching a lot. Sooner or later I always figure out the reasons for my own connection to the characters - be it from my humorously meticulous attempts to analyze things thoroughly, or rather from imagining myself being on the place of one of those characters and trying to see their world through their eyes. I guess many can say something like that. I'm sure many more of you can say that Twin Peaks always held a special place in their hearts and what had just happened on the screen during this 18-hour craziness is not what they were prepared for and now they are puzzled and completely unsure what to think of it, or maybe even question their identity as a fan.

Coming into the premiere of The Return I wanted to be entertained like many of you. I did not expect anything specific, but was familiar with the characters, excited about so many of the key cast figures reprising their roles and those announcements that were made in advance, including the "major presence of the character of Audrey Horne" and of course the return of Angelo Badalamenti. I've been a fan of David Lynch work for many years (absolutely love Lost Highway and FWWM) and I was curious what has changed about the way one of my favorite film directors views the world after more than a decade since Inland Empire.

My impression of episodes 1-16(/17.5?) mirrors what has been said so many times in the Profoundly Disappointed Support group. (Big thanks for many of those who participated with their incredible, intelligent posts throughout the discussion.) The more it went, the more devastated I felt. That's not the point I want to make here though. To me, the way the series were presented just felt wrong for some reason and I couldn't quite put it to words at first... Then I realized that it only felt real at my own expense, meaning that without your deep emotional investment, your imagination and hopes it seems quite shallow and desolate. Let me explain myself.

I'm still fascinated by how many people here, on Reddit and other social media outlets are praising the show and talk about its beautiful writing and consider the journey amazing. I do not share those views. To me Dougie was fun for a very short period of time, then it became the most boring part of "the evolution of Twin Peaks". I recently read somewhere that the character of Dougie can be seen as a parody of a Twin Peaks fan and this started to make sense. Completely shutdown and numb, in his own world, barely alive only when chasing coffee cups and cherry pie. I didn't recognize this notion at first but it looked to be the clue to what is in my opinion wrong with The Return.

The whole story felt cold and almost lifeless even before the episodes 17 & 18. I'm looking back at the way it was handled and I like some parts of it, but I don't like it as a whole. I don't like the way how I didn't notice when I got so involved, how my attachments to old characters and expectations of them having compelling storylines were tricked and then turned upside down and torn to pieces. Like many "Disappointed lodge" inhabitants have said before me, I didn't want it to reproduce the original run, I did not want it to be 100% nostalgia trip, but I did not expect the dream to go right through the meat grinder.

I don't think that having 200+ characters is brilliant when almost all of those characters have so little screen time. I've got big imagination, sure, but it is certainly not a sign of genius when the author barely scratches a few lines on the canvas, and I have not only to draw a shape but also figure out what kind of shape is it going to be. Is it really a creative masterstroke or is it something incomplete and flawed? Does it really tell a story, or is the story gets imbued with the knowledge and the specifics of perception of the one it is being told to?

I totally get the criticism of many threads being largely unresolved and leading to nowhere. To me it just felt too calculated - perhaps all those clues scattered around lead up to something substancial, but I finished Twin Peaks: The Return with no desire to ever come to this world again. And yet I'm here typing this…

It's not just how the show is structured. I look at The Return as if it is an "interactive" experience, because of the way they tease you with all the familiar things and make you sure they are aware of what you are longing for. They make you part of the dream. But then they don't give you anything aside from a crumble of gold here and there and some scenes really look borderline insulting, like they are deliberately trying to make you feel like you're not yourself. At least that was my impression from Audrey's final scene, right before the white room "reveal". I'd get it if it was at the end of something compelling, not just 10-15 minutes that we got to spend with her and Charlie, but when after 16 hours when I almost haven't heard any good music that I kept hoping for to appear "next time" at the end of each episode, and they announce "Audrey's Dance"… it felt like they're consciously mocking you.

I learned something new about David Lynch. I'm not sure, maybe it's his specific sense of humor that after all these years I still naively couldn't quite capture, but he definitely became much more cynical and pessimistic than he was before. Not that Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive were the perfect examples of storytelling with resolution and hope, but this time he and Mark Frost created something truly beautifully ugly, in my opinion. I don't mean it as an offence, the "ugliness" has been in each of his films in one form or another, but I think that this leads us to why the disappointed voices are not rare on these forums and beyond in despite the majority enjoying the hell out of Twin Peaks: The Return.

I couldn't understand that up until the finale. I kept looking at the number of new threads on Reddit's Twin Peaks subreddit after each episode in total disbelief. I stopped bothering checking episode threads here altogether some time after I realized that Dougie is going to stay the same for a while. I was curious about things at first, but each episode methodically and mercilessly made me care less and less and turned me more and more detached from the characters I knew and loved, did not offer me anything in return and made me almost indifferent and anemic by the time the finale premiere day came.

I wondered, what is wrong with me if almost everyone likes it? The Profoundly Disappointed were in the minority up until the very end it seemed like. Then the last two episodes were shown.

I can't say that I understood the ending completely and thoroughly. But I feel like I recognized it quite well. It seemed right and correct and at the heart of the emptiness that those 16 hours created in me I felt something familiar.

After the final credits have rolled and the TV was turned off I returned to mundane things at the same time trying to process the information I was given. I couldn't let go. I was surprised that such a long road came back to where it began, but it fascinated me that all those negative emotions I felt throughout the journey turned out to be parts of the story for me. It started to make sense, but not in the way I'd ever expect it to be on my own return to Twin Peaks.

I'm sure that like me each and every one of you tried to look for connections between the clues at some point, to a different extent, even with your growing frustration with the way story has been told or perhaps with your growing excitement of the construction being built in front of your eyes. Some dismiss the new series completely expressing their anger and regrets, while lots of people now list things that did not come to any resolution in the final two episodes, and many more are still coming up with theories, trying to find the meaning behind Twin Peaks: The Return. Some of those are travelling between alternate realities, find Laura, save Laura, fight with Judy and the woodsmen and trying to decipher Philip Jeffries or find out what Mr. C. was ultimately looking for. (Aside from the questions like what was going on with numerous scenes with "less important characters".) I get why it is both hated and so fascinating at the same time now. I couldn't understand why those things seemed so polarizing, but in the light what I've seen in Episodes 17 & 18… Ask yourself: doesn't it all look almost exactly the same thing that Richard ultimately does?

Now, I'm sure many of you came to this possibility on an intuitive level, and perhaps I'm about to state the obvious, but as I was watching Laura disappearing again and again I realized that Richard is continuously rejecting the actual reality. Have you seen his facial expression at the very end when he finds himself back in the chair with Laura again whispering him the clue to the case? That frozen look of disbelief and a complete lack of understanding? I've seen a theory today on reddit, trying hard to present that in a positive light, that it all means that he is still fighting with the evil of this world, but looking back at other films by David Lynch, where does this evil come from? Who invites it in? I think it is shown pretty straightforward that Richard has failed again. He did not fail the case of Laura Palmer's murder. He has failed the case of himself.

It's natural to suppose that at its core The Return explores the identity crisis almost in the same way as Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive do. Only this time it is disappointingly profound, and consciously made the way so that you can feel the suffering of the main character whose name we didn't even know up until "What is your name?". Looking at those transitions happening on the screen I was strangely calm in accepting that new reality. It did not feel good, let me tell you.

Does it feel good to know that there is no Twin Peaks? No Laura Palmer? Nothing except the man named Richard we know almost nothing about. And the woman named Linda who left him and whom we also don't know nothing about except for that she looked like Diane from the world of Twin Peaks. Those who say that this show is about nothing in the first place are right. Twin Peaks is nothing because it doesn't exist the way fans thought it does. I mean, look at it this way: didn't the "fight" with Bob look a bit caricature-like? Like pure cheese level so that it's not even funny? And also completely staged, with the audience consisting of mostly good-old familiar characters with Dale having a plan and knowing exactly how to save the day? Even if you were excited about all the Dougie stuff and a slow stretched-out build-up to his "awakening", didn't it feel plain silly to you too at times?

To me many scenes didn't look serious at all. That was the source of my growing unhappiness with the show. I was unsure what to make of them. They were completely ambivalent, like that Audrey scene I mentioned. They were so scarce and short I couldn't relate to the majority of them. Is it real, or are they laughing at me behind the curtains? To me it's just another proof on how far the joke goes on the viewer in The Return.

In a way, Lynch & Frost are offering you to shovel your way out of this shit from the very beginning, but since you can't even see the terms of the contract you're about to sign up with Showtime, you can't see that they reserve the right to put you in the center of this whole story, and make you feel the pain. How they will be deconstructing Twin Peaks stripping it off everything you love and putting things in different context that may or may not end up being relevant. It feels very heavyweight and strangling, but for all the wrong reasons. It's like Lost Highway but on a higher scope - you are now a part of the dream, you, like Richard, are trying to fix the broken puzzle by putting that last missing piece of the puzzle in the place that your mind thinks it belongs to. You think you just have to do something like that because you think that this is what has gone wrong, but you can't, repeatedly. You wait for things to go the way that you remember being familiar and you just can't because things have changed. Is it past that dictates the future? Or are you trying to carry that same (Carrie) Page that contains the final clue that you needed from one dream into another always leading up to what you can't change, to what you refuse to accept? That you cannot change the past. You cannot turn back time and undo the wrongdoings. You cannot split yourself into the always-positive Good You and the sinister-looking Bad You and make the latter responsible for everything that is wrong with you. You have to accept reality first, accept that you as a human being is flawed, that you are both good and bad inside of you, and that you make mistakes and things go wrong sometimes. Richard never seems to be able to even get there. He can't remember why is he named Richard. He is unsure why Diane has left him and why is she named Linda in the note. Did he imagine Diane as well? Why is she the first person he sees after exiting the Red Room once again? Why is she the one he turns to for help?

Who is Laura anyway? Is she a real person? Or a construct of his imagination, an innocent victim that is gradually revealed to be more and more involved in her own downfall and corruption? Is she accepting reality? Is she blaming anyone for the evil things that are happening with her? Why did she die, while Ronette was saved?

Is Carrie Page a real person? Is that a dream outside of the dream of Twin Peaks or does the white horse mean anything? Since we know that it is "the white of the eyes and dark within." What did Sarah Palmer feel when she saw it a couple of times? Does Carrie really "remember" that she is Laura, or did that scream come from another dream the dreamer saw dissolving before? Or is after? Is it future or is it past? What year is it?

I can go on about how lost Richard is in the Red Room, trying to remember what Laura whispers to him. Essentially a clue to the mystery of the Blue Rose case. But the whole case, what is it about in the reality? Who was killed? What is that dead man doing inside the Carrie Page's apartment? Will we ever find the answer? Will the dreamer ever wake up?

The actual clues are scattered (again, very deliberately) everywhere. I like to think that Dougie's sudden tearful reaction on seeing Sonny-Jim sitting in the car is one of them. We really don't know anything about Richard. Is he really an FBI agent? Did he lost his child in a car accident? Was he dreaming of having a child with the woman he loved? Was he trying to paint himself innocent like a child with Dale Cooper? Only for his own "bad seed" to violently kill all the innocence that he had in him? "Your Laura has disappeared," - she once said. Has Richard disappeared inside of himself when Linda left him because she couldn't recognize him anymore? Did he try to capture the memory of her, someone he could talk to through those tapes, knowing that no matter how far she is, he will hear back from her? Is Diane a real person or rather someone to Richard like Charlie is to Audrey?

It is a horrifying vision. I know that it may seem like too much, and maybe it speaks more about me than it is about Twin Peaks. I can't really offer more than the part of the dream that I have seen.

But I am looking on those trying to make sense out of the whole thing, I'm looking at those who are disappointed, I'm looking at myself… Are you still dreaming, I ask myself? Do those innocent dreams really get pulled into and interweaved with this vast dreamscape the way Audrey's did? (I enjoy believing that she is literally the only one who actually snapped out of it, if her name is even Audrey. It's better than thinking that made the joke out of her too.) Or is there something behind this?

What I know is just that I don't like it anymore. For years I thought I'm in love with that dream of a mysterious town with such humanly conflicted characters, coffee, cherry pie, douglas firs and the mystery in the woods. I don't like disappointment. I'm still having a hard time dealing with it in real life from time to time, but this season literally fed it to me from the spoon and at the end I felt like it's actually been garmonbozia. That was the way this convoluted, imperfect story spoke to me. Not like the Margaret's log, mind you! But, haven't you heard that voice too? The same voice that Agent Cooper "heard" in the violet-colored room?

Right now I feel like if I'll ever find as much as 18 hours of free time on my hands I'd rather use them on something else. Surprisingly, I started looking back to try to identify if I could really relate to someone at all. And I remembered Nadine watching Dr. Amp's webcast and smiling to herself. I remembered her watching and watching and that scene made as much sense as everything from episodes 1-16 that I considered nonsense before. Nadine always had anger issues. I have mine too. I told you that my relationship with cinema has always been very personal. Sometimes I'm having a hard time dealing with this anger. With this kind of fire. But Nadine found something for herself in Dr. Amp's words. She kept listening to him and then it came to her. "True love is giving the others what makes them happy." She's changed. I feel like she's probably the only one who's changed, others are mostly reflecting that endless loop of suffering and confusion that Richard is stuck in.

Now, there's a catch to that. Did David Lynch (and Mark Frost) show his true love to Twin Peaks? Did he make the fans of the show happy? I'm not sure I can answer this without following Julee Cruise steps and investing some time in getting to learn Transcendental Meditation. To deal with those anger issues a little bit better, you know? Yeah, he didn't have to. He doesn't owe us anything and it's silly even to draw such parallels. It's silly to expect things to be the same after such a huge amount of time. He's a 71-year old man who used to make wonderful movies. Some say that he still hasn't gone soft where it counts. But why does it feel wrong when you realize that he first made you fall in love with that dream (S1~2 + FWWM) and then let you watch that same dream falling apart and turn into a nightmare (S3)?

In this light (or should I say, darkness?) the ending makes perfect sense to me. I still don't like many things about Twin Peaks: The Return… I can't escape the feeling that it's flawed and it should've been handled differently. That it was killed right before my eyes and I was just looking at the fleeting memory of it before it disappeared completely. But in a sense it is still alive - while people are still dreaming of it and are looking for answers. And if you accept that it was just a dream, it is so much easier to look within yourself and try to find why this particular dream fascinated you and haunted for all these years. If you want to, of course.

But now it's a dream. There are no stars. It's just that some are still dreaming of them. On a starry night.

I'd like to finish this extra-long debut exercise in pure self-expression with a special thanks to counterpaul for his posts somewhere earlier in the Profoundly Disappointed Support Group thread (couldn't find them, but I remember him resonating with words what I felt during the initial roll out of the season, which in turn helped me to make some sense out of my increasing confusion), and most recently in the Profoundly Satisfied Support Group thread, even though I don't think I'm ready to move to the latter "lodge" after all that I've just said. I'm somewhere in between. In a certain room with the zig-zag floor and red curtains. Is it the waiting room for the ambivalently-awaken? :mrgreen: I'm certainly not happy with everything, but I'm more content than bitter in comparison to how I was up until the finale. Will I ever get over it? Will I change my opinion of Twin Peaks: The Return in the future? I can't say for sure either. I have so much stuff to do. And shovel my way out of the place I'm currently stuck in, with all this disappointment and negativity, frustration and anger. And I guess I have the right tool in my hands now, where I thought only the golden ring with an owl symbol could appear before.

I know that this might be a tough pill to swallow for some. Feel free to ignore/reject my senselessly long write-up completely, congratulate me on moving on or laugh at me, or even smash this interpretation with you fist in a green gardening glove! It's okay, it's just a TV show after all, even if we all love it so much. I still love it, and accept it the way it is - a huge part of my life, but I'm also… much more calmer about it now than I was not so long ago. I hope that those of you who will choose to accept the nature of what Laura is whispering to Richard - I hope that you will be rewarded with finding your own brand new golden shovel when you wake up next morning. Or at least try to give a call to Dr. Amp, the number should be on the note near the phone, perhaps he will be able to give you a life-changing advice?

Whatever the case may be, I guess I'll see you around, fellow dreamers ;)
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Hercousin
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:43 am

I share a lot of your frustrations. Right up until the finale I told myself that if I didn't like the ending I was free to love the original and fwwm on their own. Seeing the new ending has, I won't lie, soured me a bit on the whole world. I feel that all the Judy/fireman/frogbug stuff muddled the mystery of the Lodges and the town itself. If Laura never died and her angel ending never happened, I think I'm out. That could be interpreted as a dream, too, but one with much more personal meaning for me than the Return's ending. I thought Mark Frost's involvement would keep the plot on track and allow a more decipherable ending, but it didn't. I'm not smart enough to know what happened, or gain any personal meaning from it, although I do kind of like the fact that the last thing we see is Laura whispering to Cooper.

In Lost Highway, we finally understand Fred's delusions- it was a film about a homicidally jealous man who couldn't reckon with the atavistic impulses inside of him. Mulholland Drive was a sad movie but not a hopeless one, I see it as a cautionary tale and a love gone wrong. Both sad endings, but meaningful, with messages about the lies we tell ourselves. I don't know what to make of all the timeline/vortex/demonic hierarchies we're left with at the end of the Return. I guess the message is you can't go home again. The past is a dream. I'm just not feeling it in any kind of visceral or straightforward way, sadly.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:40 am

Nah, I'm good.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
cgs027
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:57 am

Hercousin wrote:I share a lot of your frustrations. Right up until the finale I told myself that if I didn't like the ending I was free to love the original and fwwm on their own. Seeing the new ending has, I won't lie, soured me a bit on the whole world. I feel that all the Judy/fireman/frogbug stuff muddled the mystery of the Lodges and the town itself. If Laura never died and her angel ending never happened, I think I'm out. That could be interpreted as a dream, too, but one with much more personal meaning for me than the Return's ending. I thought Mark Frost's involvement would keep the plot on track and allow a more decipherable ending, but it didn't. I'm not smart enough to know what happened, or gain any personal meaning from it, although I do kind of like the fact that the last thing we see is Laura whispering to Cooper.

In Lost Highway, we finally understand Fred's delusions- it was a film about a homicidally jealous man who couldn't reckon with the atavistic impulses inside of him. Mulholland Drive was a sad movie but not a hopeless one, I see it as a cautionary tale and a love gone wrong. Both sad endings, but meaningful, with messages about the lies we tell ourselves. I don't know what to make of all the timeline/vortex/demonic hierarchies we're left with at the end of the Return. I guess the message is you can't go home again. The past is a dream. I'm just not feeling it in any kind of visceral or straightforward way, sadly.


Yep, pretty much echoes my sentiments. I'm left with the rather bland taste in my mouth that Coop was basically doing the Fireman's bidding at the end. Rendered to a cosmic pawn. If I'm to buy into this hero complex sh*t, then Caroline is the objective here... His first love, the one thing that haunted him (to the point where it essentially allowed Mr. C to be unleashed in the first place).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby mickeyfickey » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Is there a reason this couldn't be lumped in with one of the two larger threads on the subject?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:36 pm

mickeyfickey wrote:Is there a reason this couldn't be lumped in with one of the two larger threads on the subject?


It exists in an alternate timeline.
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Hercousin
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:06 pm

cgs027 wrote:
mickeyfickey wrote:Is there a reason this couldn't be lumped in with one of the two larger threads on the subject?


It exists in an alternate timeline.


Lol...yeah, I guess I should just go check in with the profoundly disappointed but it feels like admitting defeat.
AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:45 pm

Wonderful post. Thank you.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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candystorecowboy
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby candystorecowboy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:24 pm

Hi guys! I thought this thread is destined to be either buried in the archives with 0 replies or immediately deleted, so a big thanks to everyone who said something :mrgreen:

Hercousin, thank you for sharing your own experience! Do you think that FWWM has a happy ending? I never read it that way, to me it was rather a crushing ending - the angel did appear, but it was too late, and Laura may seem happy while she's crying, but it is rather a sad relief from her discovery that the angels are not going away even when you're "falling in space faster and faster". Films like Blue Velvet and (in a way - questioning my own memory here) Inland Empire end kinda in a "Lynch-happy" way meaning that the protagonist managed to get out of the world he almost got sucked in into… Undamaged? Ugh. Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive are ending in a "happy Lynch" kind of way, meaning that love has gone away and the horrors of that are stuck in your head forever and this is what apparently makes Lynch very happy :lol: Thus The Return ended in a "heroin happy Lynch" / "heroin Lynch happy" way, meaning that a lot of garmonbozia has been consumed from the suffering of the viewers and love was completely shattered and turned to dust and we were basically watching Mark Frost sweeping that dust from the Roadhouse floor for 18 hours straight over the summer until he suddenly disappeared from the screen avoiding all the questions :D Oh, and by the way, I always took those (translating from Lynchean I guess) "devastating" endings as cautions - seeing it as rather "what should never be", but with The Return I'm afraid I got sucked in and deeply affected, but not in a good way. Maybe to warn the viewer was his ultimate goal after all? (Someone already put in into words in one of the threads saying that it is a cautionary tale on escapism.) Not that I enjoyed it so much, but oh well... By the way, what elements of Mulholland Drive make you think that there is hope?

So, going back to the subject, how much does it matter if what we saw in FWWM is now deemed as non-existent? There was so much emotion there (totally share your sentiment on the film's ending having such a strong impact), and this could also speak volumes about Richard's character…

There's actually nothing wrong with the fact that it all never happened if you are ready to choose Richard as the only protagonist. I saw people writing that the ending is depressing because it means that all those dreams were for nothing, but I tend to disagree. I pointed out that clues are scattered everywhere and mentioned an example that could be relevant to that, with Sonny-Jim and Dougie scene. Dreams are often based on reality, and you can find the reflection of it in those dreams, which is why I think that the whole Carrie Page sequence was also a dream, but with a slightly stronger involvement of "the real mystery" (the next natural question that I'd like to ask Richard after the one that serves as the title of Episode 18), such as Cooper's name and his relationship to Linda that we were not aware of. Now, the fact that I personally not a fond of some of those dreams as portrayed in The Return is the basis for me to also go and check-in in the Disappointed thread, but as you saw, I'm not entirely convinced that my way out is as much of a delusion as The Return itself suggests. So I'm sending those guys my regards by staying in this thread instead!

On a final note, I guess my whole literal agonizing over the way the season unfolded was the attempt to refuse the actual "message" of The Return, that you mentioned. It sucks a lot, and it's not a good place to be in. In my original post I mentioned that it is a really difficult process, but I also tried to express that there's light shining at the end of the tunnel, even if it's just the sun reflecting from one of those gold-sprayed shovels, you know? Hope this will help you come to terms with The Evolution of Twin Peaks :)

N. Needleman, been chuckling at your signature since first seeing it in the Disappointed thread! Can't imagine how much more meaning The Return gets when a viewer's perception is enriched in that particular way!

Hey, cgs027, how about the mind trying to help itself? I think it's fascinating that the mind of a deeply troubled person is capable to plot the way to resolve it's own problems at an 18-hour scale so that everything plays out perfectly with one single goal… Which is also open to multiple interpretations, since you mentioned Caroline!

mickeyfickey, there actually is a reason for that! I'd have expressed my negativity in Disappointed thread instead, but I wasn't disappointed anymore - the finale has affected my perception considerably and while I haven't turned into a fan of The Return, I thought that my experience of transcending to someone who accepts the series as it is, while retaining his previous criticism and managing to reconnect with what Twin Peaks meant to him could help those who are still struggling.

There is a deeper (and a bit more silly for sure) reason to that, kinda mirroring the way the whole new series builds up its relationship with the viewer (at least I see it that way - you may disagree and refer to my imagination which I mentioned as a means to justify me as unreliable of a narrator as Dale Cooper is in the story, or point to the shaky basis of my assumptions right away). I think it won't be wrong to say that those who are currently in the Disappointed thread are in a way rejecting how Twin Peaks is portrayed in The Return and are choosing to stay deeper in the past - the Twin Peaks from the original run + FWWM, while those who are Satisfied (and probably many more who are hanging around the dozens of other threads) are clearly choosing the future Twin Peaks as portrayed in The Return. I thought it would be fun to create a thread for those who find themselves more in the Red Room's plane (which is still Twin Peaks per se, but also not quite the place you'd want to stay in if you take my interpretation into consideration). That is, for those who deal with certain consequences of such realization hopefully better than Mr. R. does in The Return.

Of course you may think otherwise, and I won't mind if moderators of this board decide that my thread should not exist as a separate entity, but until that happened I'd rather invite you to share your own experience if you found anything here resonating with your own thoughts and impressions or just accept my regards ;)

AnotherBlueRoseCase, thanks a lot and you're welcome! They say coffee and cherry pie are included in the prize package for the winners of shoveling contest :o
Last edited by candystorecowboy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:02 pm

candystorecowboy wrote:So, going back to the subject, how much does it matter if what we saw in FWWM is now deemed as non-existent?


AFAIC it is not. Cooper and Diane went into a different timeline. The original world of Twin Peaks from the series prior to the moment they drive down that road is still there.

N. Needleman, been chuckling at your signature since first seeing it in the Disappointed thread! Can't imagine how much more meaning The Return gets when a viewer's perception is enriched in that particular way!


Mine wasn't. I find it quite good anyway.

I think we have different interpretations of the ending of The Return. AFAIC the original series and narrative of that and FWWM and the prior 17 parts are all quite intact. It's Cooper and Diane that moved into another world. YMMV, that's how I see it.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Hercousin
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: a love letter to Profoundly Disappointed/Satisfied support groups (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:38 pm

^FWWM does have a crushing ending, but it's also spiritual and hopeful I think. The end where Laura is laughing and crying at the same time, when she sees her angel, it's one of the strangest most moving things I've ever seen. Then again I believe Sheryl Lee had something to do with the ending on a note of hope; to me Lynch is best when he is collaborating. Thanks for responding.

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