Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

Low Entropy
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Low Entropy »

I don't understand why so many reviewers assume Season 3 ended on a bleak note, negative, or in a failure. Even if we leave the shared dreams aside for a moment and just focus on the facts. Cooper was given precise instructions by the Fireman, and he followed them. He knew there was a danger in crossing over. He was confused at first in the new realm, but quickly found "Judy's". He handled the situation with the cowboys with precision. He managed to find "Laura" and bring her to her home. Now this is the first thing that didn't really work out. But then it doesn't end on a negative, but on a completely open note. There is nothing that indicates Cooper won't find a solution after what we saw. It just didn't happen on screen.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

This is interesting. So what exactly happens at the end? Coop desperately tries to get "Laura" to remember...she doesn't. And then...she does. He succeeds at his mission. Yes, she screams. The immediate moment of recall is of course traumatic as hell. But then all the lights go out in the Palmer home.

Does this perhaps indicate that, through realization, Laura is finally able to move past the abuse that happened in that house so long ago -- turn off the lights on it, metaphorically? The electricity goes out, the ceiling fan finally stops spinning. She's able to accept it and put it behind her. From this perspective, "Carrie" is a coping mechanism much like Diane's tulpa after her rape, a means of dissociation. Carrie is clearly all kinds of screwed up. Only by coming to terms with her past can she finally achieve peace, and Cooper knows this -- perhaps because of what she whispered to him in the Red Room. Perhaps the "Richard" universe is actually Laura's tulpa thought-world, a place to escape, and Cooper had to infiltrate it to save her from denial.

I'm not saying this is my preferred reading -- it still arguably robs Laura of her agency -- but I do really enjoy the psychological metaphor of it.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Manwith
RR Diner Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Manwith »

He's taking on more traits of the doppleganger and the world no longer recognizes him as Cooper, only Richard. He no longer loves coffee. It seems that this isn't a fight he's going to win in the end. Audrey's last scene was equally pessimistic. I can see how you might want to be more optimistic, but this is likely the end of the show. Lynch chose to end it with him in this dark place, failing to find or stop Judy/ Sarah Palmer, which doesn't suggest he'll win.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Manwith wrote:He's taking on more traits of the doppleganger and the world no longer recognizes him as Cooper, only Richard. He no longer loves coffee. It seems that this isn't a fight he's going to win in the end. Audrey's last scene was equally pessimistic. I can see how you might want to be more optimistic, but this is likely the end of the show. Lynch chose to end it with him in this dark place, failing to find Judy, which doesn't suggest he'll win.
Fair points. But the show is all about loss of identity (Dougie). Maybe Cooper needs to learn to subjugate His sense of self to enter Laura's thought-world and save her, and/or to acknowledge his own darker impulses in order to help Laura come to terms with hers.

I'm just spitballing, hadn't thought of any of this before. But I think it bears some exploration.
Manwith
RR Diner Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Manwith »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Manwith wrote:He's taking on more traits of the doppleganger and the world no longer recognizes him as Cooper, only Richard. He no longer loves coffee. It seems that this isn't a fight he's going to win in the end. Audrey's last scene was equally pessimistic. I can see how you might want to be more optimistic, but this is likely the end of the show. Lynch chose to end it with him in this dark place, failing to find Judy, which doesn't suggest he'll win.
Fair points. But the show is all about loss of identity (Dougie). Maybe Cooper needs to learn to subjugate His sense of self to enter Laura's thought-world and save her, and/or to acknowledge his own darker impulses in order to help Laura come to terms with hers.

I'm just spitballing, hadn't thought of any of this before. But I think it bears some exploration.
Losing one's identity in Twin Peaks isn't always a good thing. Maybe it wasn't bad in the end when Dougie lost his identity, but Sarah Palmer, Leland and Audrey lost their identity and it's bad.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Manwith wrote:Losing one's identity in Twin Peaks isn't always a good thing. Maybe it wasn't bad in the end when Dougie lost his identity, but Sarah Palmer, Leland and Audrey lost their identity and it's bad.
I would argue -- and frequently have -- that Leland doesn't lose his identity, but rather that Bob gives him free reign to unleash his ugliest, most deeply hidden impulses without guilt. Remember, in TMP, he admits to his own agency in having sex with girls the age of his own daughter, and FWWM implies he intentionally selected prostitutes who LOOKED like Laura. Bob gives him permission to act on what he secretly wanted to do along, but probably never would have without the push. I also just posted another thread on Sarah and what her situation in TR may say about her identity. I'm not saying this is a definitive interpretation, and stuff like Episode 16 adds ambiguity as to L/F's intentions, but I think there's a very good argument to made that Leland-as-Bob and Sarah-as-Judy are actually indulging their darkest, truest selves.

Now, Audrey...we're not gonna talk about Audrey at all ;)
User avatar
Ashok
Great Northern Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:39 am
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Ashok »

I agree OP, I'm not convinced Season 3's ending was as a dead end. I feel like if the universe of "Twin Peaks" exists in 3D, we as the audience are only seeing the world from a two dimensional vantage point. From our perspective it feels bleak, but I have to believe the world Cooper inhabits is larger than what we see from our television screens and if we could see the bigger picture all hope isn't lost.

It does feel like all the odds are stacked against Coop. When he sees Jeffries, we see the infinity symbol which suggests Agent Cooper and Laura Palmer are destined to perpetually lose against Evil. But there seem to be subtle clues in The Return that offer a promise that it's perhaps not impossible to break the cycle? Some fans on Reddit posted that if you look carefully at all the utility poles in FWWM and The Return, it seems the Fireman showed Andy a vision of the same utility pole by Carrie Page's house. From what I can gather, Briggs and The Fireman knew Cooper would always pursue after Carrie Page in the Richard/Linda dimension and wanted Andy of all people to have knowledge of this world. I can't fathom what Andy is supposed to do with this info, but it seems to me like a sort of promise that Cooper isn't totally doomed. He's losing the chess game against Judy but The Fireman has foreseen most of these events and Deputy Andy has a loving heart and has information to hopefully shift the odds of the game back into Coop's favor.
"Whatever happened, happened." -Daniel Faraday
Manwith
RR Diner Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Manwith »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Manwith wrote:Losing one's identity in Twin Peaks isn't always a good thing. Maybe it wasn't bad in the end when Dougie lost his identity, but Sarah Palmer, Leland and Audrey lost their identity and it's bad.
I would argue -- and frequently have -- that Leland doesn't lose his identity, but rather that Bob gives him free reign to unleash his ugliest, most deeply hidden impulses without guilt. Remember, in TMP, he admits to his own agency in having sex with girls the age of his own daughter, and FWWM implies he intentionally selected prostitutes who LOOKED like Laura. Bob gives him permission to act on what he secretly wanted to do along, but probably never would have without the push. I also just posted another thread on Sarah and what her situation in TR may say about her identity. I'm not saying this is a definitive interpretation, and stuff like Episode 16 adds ambiguity as to L/F's intentions, but I think there's a very good argument to made that Leland-as-Bob and Sarah-as-Judy are actually indulging their darkest, truest selves.

Now, Audrey...we're not gonna talk about Audrey at all ;)
TMP prostitution stuff happens way after Leland was possessed by Bob though. It's not evidence that Leland was a bad guy before he met Bob. He met Bob as a child.

I get your point, but the last time we see Leland in FWWM he looks to me like a puppet on a string. At least to me that image looks like Bob is hanging up a coat (Leland has just become a coat Bob wears) and Leland's lost his identity.

Image

At any rate losing identity isn't always a good thing for Lynch. The end of The Return is similar to the end of Lost Highway, which isn't a happy ending and also features losing identity.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

OTOH, I think loss of identity leads to salvation in my interpretation of IE. There are few absolutes in Lynchland. But we're probably wandering too far afield. Sorry, Low Entropy!
Low Entropy
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Low Entropy »

He indeed looks perplexed in the last seconds, but to me nothing indicates that he cannot overcome that obstacle. Hell, he even managed to snap out of being Dougie before. He is not really powerless or lost in Judy's realm, as the way he handled the cowboys or found "Laura" showed.
The key scene for me is when Diane warns him about "crossing over"; Dale knows he is in serious danger when being in Judy's realm, but he still is certain he will manage to complete his task. And the Fireman gave him instructions for this situation; as the Fireman is some godlike being, I doubt he would lead Dale into a trap.
To sum up: it is a hard task for Cooper, but I'm sure our Cooper can manage ut.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

I'm not so sure Richard & Carrie's universe is Judy's realm. Someone posted an article in another thread theorizing that the realm is actually a trap for Judy set by the White Lodge, although I don't necessarily believe that either -- but it's worth a read. In this moment, I think I'm sticking with that universe being Laura'a dissociation/tulpa-world where she tries to escape her memories of abuse. But I may change my mind in five minutes.
Michael Philip
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Michael Philip »

I tend to agree that it's a trap they set for possessed "Laura." Laura is obviously not herself given the body in her room.

In pt 8, Laura is sent as a type of good Bob type spirit. So, if Sarah is possessed by Judy and Leland by Bob, Laura would likely turn out like Richard. But, she is possessed by a good spirit in her life. If the good spirit of Laura returns to the white lodge when dale is leading her to the gateway, the physical manifestation of Laura would be left.

Also, in 18, they're driving, they are followed by a car which I believe is Mike, similar to fwwm when mike is in the truck and pulls up by Laura and Leland. There is also a long shot of Laura and cooper coming out of the convenience store at a gas station.

The trippiest thing, is if you look at cooper's body language at the very end, the camera turns, it looks like he's falling forward a bit. He takes a few steps, his left arm is NUMB right by his side and his right arm is moving, and he says, what year is this? Very similar to Mike in the black lodge saying is it future or is it past when dale is stuck there. I think possessed Judy/Laura screams at the end because she realizes she is trapped. The chalfonts/tremonds are no longer black lodge people, just normal people.
Michael Philip
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Michael Philip »

Also, I think Jeffries switching the owl symbol to infinity is the closing of the chance out between two worlds.
User avatar
Trudy Chelgren
RR Diner Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:07 am

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Trudy Chelgren »

I wasn't going to post, but the discussion is too interesting.

I think what you see onscreen is less that what it infers. If you take the raw information we get, it's a neutral or positive ending; Cooper may be trapped in a strange other-world or year, and Carrie remembers something of Laura's life. It's both so alienating and hopeful. There's a way back, if Carrie remembers. That being said, did Carrie scream because of the shock of not being who she thought she was, or was it the trauma of Laura's life? Either is unsettling.

But what it infers is incredibly painful and haunting. Unless the story continues and resolves in some way, the ending is not positive for me. It's deeply poignant.
User avatar
Novalis
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Season 3 Ended On A Positive Note (Spoilers)

Post by Novalis »

Michael Philip wrote:...Jeffries switching the owl symbol to infinity....
I keep reading this, but as far as I can remember Jeffries made it into a figure 8, not a lemniscate ( sideways 8 ).
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
Post Reply