From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

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ozziejohn
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby ozziejohn » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:29 pm

The Jumping Man wrote:How many threads complaining about the show is this same poster going to start? A poster who didn't join the board until Tuesday, for crying out loud. Can't we just have one "RetconMetatron's Complaint Thread"?

Haha. This.
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N. Needleman
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:35 pm

Is this like the umpteenth thread we're going to have where people who like the show are called sycophants, idiots, bootlickers and denialists, and then for some inexplicable reason some impossibly polite folks are going to respond with stuff like "thoughtful post! You've given me a lot to think about"? Lovely.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Novalis
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Novalis » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:46 pm

N. Needleman wrote:Is this like the umpteenth thread we're going to have where people who like the show are called sycophants, idiots, bootlickers and denialists, and then for some inexplicable reason some impossibly polite folks are going to respond with stuff like "thoughtful post! You've given me a lot to think about"? Lovely.


And over on the profoundly disappointed thread I just read this:

Gabriel wrote:... this is the best thread on the site with all the coolest contributors.

More than just a 'discussion' or 'safe space' thread, in approaching TPTR from a more antagonistic viewpoint I rather suspect most 'disappointed' people have a better understanding of the show than the sycophants and post-modern zombies on other threads who resort to bullying!


So there you go. Us likers are not only bad at understanding the show, we are sycophantic post-modern zombie-bullies.

Gotta light?
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Snailhead
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Snailhead » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:52 pm

Yeah, this thread is pointless and the original post should have gone into the profoundly disappointed thread. Sorry, mate.
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The Jumping Man
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby The Jumping Man » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:24 pm

Let the miserable wallow in their misery. That's fine. But creating multiple pissy threads in your first few days of joining the board is just trolling. You're joining a long-existing community here, maybe show a little humility.
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Gabriel
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Gabriel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:06 am

Novalis wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:Is this like the umpteenth thread we're going to have where people who like the show are called sycophants, idiots, bootlickers and denialists, and then for some inexplicable reason some impossibly polite folks are going to respond with stuff like "thoughtful post! You've given me a lot to think about"? Lovely.


And over on the profoundly disappointed thread I just read this:

Gabriel wrote:... this is the best thread on the site with all the coolest contributors.

More than just a 'discussion' or 'safe space' thread, in approaching TPTR from a more antagonistic viewpoint I rather suspect most 'disappointed' people have a better understanding of the show than the sycophants and post-modern zombies on other threads who resort to bullying!


So there you go. Us likers are not only bad at understanding the show, we are sycophantic post-modern zombie-bullies.

Gotta light?


Context, Novalis. Venus was talking about being bullied in that thread. My view is that if people are resorting to bullying, they clearly can't argue cogently. In fact, by taking my remarks out of context, you're behaving badly yourself. I was talking about bullies.
Skip Bittman
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Skip Bittman » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:39 am

"Argument? I thought this was abuse."

Seeing a full page of penny ante moaning and whining threads on a fan forum as one of the most interesting tv experiments of the past 20 years is still echoing in our heads is pretty comical. It's already looking as drearily short-sighted as all the FWWM snubbers. Well, whatever passes the time I suppose. Hopefully the most entertaining objections can be compiled in amusing articles and preserved for posterity.
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Novalis
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Novalis » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:58 am

Gabriel wrote:Context, Novalis. Venus was talking about being bullied in that thread. My view is that if people are resorting to bullying, they clearly can't argue cogently. In fact, by taking my remarks out of context, you're behaving badly yourself. I was talking about bullies.


Understood, and thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Maybe my skim-reading was a bit out of line here. You've certainly given me a lot to think about.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Gabriel
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Gabriel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:03 am

Novalis wrote:Understood, and thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Maybe my skim-reading was a bit out of line here. You've certainly given me a lot to think about.


Sorry if I sounded overly sharp. I had to get up early, slightly hungover, to pack for my holiday and tapped that reply out rather briskly. I'm quite thick skinned (and I admit sometimes my comments stink the place up worse than the average episode of Twin Peaks: The Return does ;)) but I hate to think that Venus was reduced to tears. That's awful.
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TheAlien
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby TheAlien » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:42 am

Isn't the question being asked, actually the opposite?

From an artistic standpoint? absolutely, Lynch has something he wanted to say and he said it.

But from a narrative? that is where it gets convoluted depending on your interpretation and conception of the story that has been laid out in front of you for 18 episodes, do you really find the story pointless? I don't
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RetconMetatron
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby RetconMetatron » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:05 am

PDCampbell wrote:
RetconMetatron wrote:Somewhat off topic, but I always found Lynch's dismay about the killer-reveal pretty petty.

Detective stories have always relied on the "one that got away" trope- the case that's never solved, that the investigator obsesses over to his or her own detriment (or sanity). Maybe it would've been unique in 1990, but just a few years later you had a show like Homicide and a unsolved case involving a murdered child that threaded through to the end of the series. Many other shows have played with this idea: in True Detective it took Rust Cohle 20 years to solve the bayou murders. I'm not saying it would've worked in the context of S2 Peaks, just that there is an established tradition of these kinds of stories in mystery/noir fiction.


Unsolved cases are usually the backstory of the investigator though, not the main plot. I just can't see how never solving the Laura case would not severly damage the Cooper character. Given his energetic persona, all the clues he's finding in the first couple of episodes already, all the supernatural help he's getting, the short list of suspects due the size of the town.. going on for several seasons like this without catching him the killer at the end would make him look incredibly foolish given the circumstances. I don't think the show would be fondly remembered at all with such an unsatisfactory ending. I also think the lodge-stuff would be cranked up to 11 to prolong the show in this fashion (either that, or the amount of "false clues" for Cooper to investigate would reach a laughable extend). Mind you, I like the lodge-stuff, but it should be served in moderation, else it loses the effect.
Last edited by RetconMetatron on Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
RetconMetatron
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby RetconMetatron » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:12 am

Thatfabulousalien wrote:do you really find the story pointless? I don't


I actually liked some S3 episodes, but the ending is... "Cooper altered the timeline" (or tried to alter it, or did try it in a dream.. whatever exactly happened, the time travel part was certainly there)

Stuff like that belongs in a Star Trek episode or a Back to the Future sequel. No matter how artsy the last two episodes were, at the end if all came down to a cliched Star Trek/Outer Limits-like time travel gone wrong plot. Ugh.
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:28 am

RetconMetatron wrote:
Thatfabulousalien wrote:do you really find the story pointless? I don't


I actually liked some S3 episodes, but the ending is... "Cooper altered the timeline" (or tried to alter it, or did try it in a dream.. whatever exactly happened, the time travel part was certainly there)

Stuff like that belongs in a Star Trek episode or a Back to the Future sequel. No matter how artsy the last two episodes were, at the end if all came down to a cliched Star Trek/Outer Limits-like time travel gone wrong plot. Ugh.


But Major Briggs traveling through time didn't bother you?
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RetconMetatron
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby RetconMetatron » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:35 am

Deep Thought wrote:
RetconMetatron wrote:
Thatfabulousalien wrote:do you really find the story pointless? I don't


I actually liked some S3 episodes, but the ending is... "Cooper altered the timeline" (or tried to alter it, or did try it in a dream.. whatever exactly happened, the time travel part was certainly there)

Stuff like that belongs in a Star Trek episode or a Back to the Future sequel. No matter how artsy the last two episodes were, at the end if all came down to a cliched Star Trek/Outer Limits-like time travel gone wrong plot. Ugh.


But Major Briggs traveling through time didn't bother you?


Do you mean in the original? As far I can remember, he had visions of the future. That and time working different in the lodges is something different than a character travelling literally physically into the past and interacting with it to change the "timeline". That's a Star Trek plot.
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N. Needleman
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Re: From an artistic standpoint, why was The Return needed at all?

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:12 am

Like Annie?
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.

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