Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
sylvia_north
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:38 am

I think Deming and Lynch just like a certain composition within a frame. So did Kubrick.


I also think Dark Side of the Moon and Wizard of Oz don't sync at all, or any better than any random album and Oz.
i .. am .. not ... your... foot
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:18 am

sylvia_north wrote:I think Deming and Lynch just like a certain composition within a frame. So did Kubrick.


I also think Dark Side of the Moon and Wizard of Oz don't sync at all, or any better than any random album and Oz.


The composition is not really the issue, although I have not seen the overlaid video. Probably best to watch it before assuming it is like OZ/Floyd or other unrelated things. I understand human psychology well enough to know our penchant for finding patterns and relationships where there are none, and have never held truck with the musical syncing with any movie. I am a skeptic, but this is different. Much different. The last 15 minutes is the key, all the way to past the end credits of 18.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:02 pm

Here's an easy way to watch them synched. They are overlaid, but it works just as well, or maybe better. No one is claiming the entire episode is synced, afaik, just the last 10 minutes through to the very end of this video (the closing credits of 17). As long as this link stays up on youtube, here it is. There are moments of congruence, but there are a limited number of characters in the episodes, so . . .

Watch to the end, the Lynch/Frost logo is the key.

https://youtu.be/pDt5DG4zSL4?t=47m43s
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
User avatar
Voided
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:08 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Voided » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:40 am

Deep Thought wrote:Here's an easy way to watch them synched. They are overlaid, but it works just as well, or maybe better. No one is claiming the entire episode is synced, afaik, just the last 10 minutes through to the very end of this video (the closing credits of 17). As long as this link stays up on youtube, here it is. There are moments of congruence, but there are a limited number of characters in the episodes, so . . .

Watch to the end, the Lynch/Frost logo is the key.

https://youtu.be/pDt5DG4zSL4?t=47m43s


I found this article quite convincing....although I've yet to try the syncing. Either way, it's the various connections between the episodes that provide the apparent meaning:

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episodes-1 ... 1352ce38e8
Just forget you ever saw it. It's better that way.
Cipher
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Cipher » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:19 am

Having watched a sync of the last fifteen minutes or so, I'm now even more convinced it's incidental than I was before I tried it (and I tend not to give these types of theories much credence in the first place). Unless we're to believe that Cooper and Laura are both the Sparkwood street light, or Alice Tremond is Laura's corpse's hair. There are four times as many shots that don't line up as there are ones that do, and even the ones in "sync" are somewhat tenuous.

There are some serendipitous moments, and it certainly gives the ending a different tone (though a more thematically satisfying reading? I'm not sure; I actually really don't love the idea that Laura screams Judy out of existence, as I don't think it does much for her or Cooper's stories), but I think it's mostly a happy accident that's more worth checking out for curiosity rather than as an explanation.
Last edited by Cipher on Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ragnell
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Ragnell » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:41 am

Seem like the main thing is that the soundtrack fits perfectly, but that can be explained by Lynch maybe intending to use Laura's Theme during that scene as well, but deciding he liked it without music better.
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Deep Thought » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:16 am

Cipher wrote:Having watched a sync of the last fifteen minutes or so, I'm now even more convinced it's incidental than I was before I tried it (and I tend not to give these types of theories much credence in the first place). Unless we're to believe that Cooper and Laura are both the Sparkwood street light, or Alice Tremond is Laura's corpse's hair. There are four times as many shots that don't line up as there are ones that do, and even the ones in "sync" are somewhat tenuous.

There are some serendipitous moments, and it certainly gives the ending a different tone (though a more thematically satisfying reading? I'm not sure; I actually really don't love the idea that Laura screams Judy out of existence, as I don't think it does much for her or Cooper's stories), but I think it's mostly a happy accident that's more worth checking out for curiosity rather than as an explanation.


The overlay is distracting. Thinking that there should be a direct relationship is not the ideal way to look at it, imo, or valid.

We know the scenes are arranged non linearly. If the syncing is a wild duck chase, where does Sarah smashing Laura's picture frame fit in the timeline? The syncing creates the connection between Sarah/Judy in her lair and using the Tremonds/Jumping Man/Gatekeeper to run interference for her. Taking ep 17 at face (timeline) value would mean Judy smashes the picture in an incantation to order to pull Laura out of multiple dimensions simultaneously, a victory of sorts. To me the Judy scene is strongly indicative of defeat, unless the wailing is what Judy does before she wins a battle; and a battle is what I think it was, not a final victory over Judy.

The idea that the logo has no sound because Judy went quiet is half an explanation. Judy went dark as well, but the logo is still flowing with electricity. And the showtime logo is kind of nice and gentle, so I don't think DL would request it be silenced to let the audience ruminate for an extra 5 seconds, especially since a loud obnoxious ad for some sex-filled showtime series always immediately follows.

It may come down to how willing someone thinks DL is willing to tinker with conventional presentation. I've seen the unconventional in The Return already, so the syncing becomes easier to digest, especially with the precursor appetizers already discussed. (Repeated scenes, synced scenes, overlayed scenes).

Compare the synced scenes on YouTube of cooper in the box and the missing guard. The first two minutes is clearly and incontrovertibly synced intentionally. Isn't this a clue? Isn't the last scenes from 17 and 18 the exact same technique, except spread out between two episodes? I don't understand the gut level resistance to the idea. I'm not saying that is your approach Cipher, but lots of other people scoff even though the technique has already been used in the series. If it is not there so be it, but it is not a crazy idea at all.
Last edited by Deep Thought on Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
Cipher
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Cipher » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:24 am

Deep Thought wrote:We know the scenes are arranged non linearly. If the syncing is a wild duck chase, where does Sarah smashing Laura's picture frame fit in the timeline?

After Cooper's actions in the sheriff's station, as he's saving Laura in the past. Judy's attacking the photo immediately proceeds the record-scratch played during the Fireman's conversation with cooper, as well as Laura being plucked from Cooper's grasp (and likely simultaneously the Red Room) with a scream quite different from the one she lets loose at the end.

If the scream we hear in episode 1 and the end of episode 17 were identical to the one at the end of 18, I'd be a lot more on board with this being intentional, but I think the fact that they're different is fairly damning. The Sarah/Judy scene left me with few questions on its own, and I don't think many were waiting for more explanation there prior to the "sync" theory popping up.

The idea that the logo has no sound because Judy went quiet is half an explanation.

I think that's justifiable based on the finale's atmosphere alone, or, sure, a reading that makes a connection to the electricity going out at the Palmer house. There are lots of ways to read that as either an aesthetic choice or a clue that don't depend on episode-syncing.

I'm not saying there's nothing to be gained in the experiment here, but I don't see much compelling evidence that this was intentional.
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Deep Thought » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:08 am

Cipher wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:We know the scenes are arranged non linearly. If the syncing is a wild duck chase, where does Sarah smashing Laura's picture frame fit in the timeline?
If the scream we hear in episode 1 and the end of episode 17 were identical to the one at the end of 18, I'd be a lot more on board with this being intentional, but I think the fact that they're different is fairly damning.

Here's my thinking at the moment. The identical screams in 1 and 17 were a result of Judy pulling Laura out of existence in the lodge and the TP world. The Giant, having access to fluid time, has already sent Laura Palmer to Odessa in the Richard/Linda reality. Cooper goes there to awaken her, and brings her to Sarah's house/Judy's lair which is a gateway watched over by Mrs. Tremond. Judy sees her plan crumbling and in a rage smashes Laura's picture frame. Laura awakens and screams, foiling Judy for now. This is what I'm working with to try and frame the rest of the story, and that's why the syncing seems natural and intended to me. The final scream in 18 is not one of pain and despair like the other two identical (because they are one) screams, but one of realization, and an awakening to horror.


Cipher wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:The idea that the logo has no sound because Judy went quiet is half an explanation.


I think that's justifiable based on the finale's atmosphere alone, or, sure, a reading that makes a connection to the electricity going out at the Palmer house. There are lots of ways to read that as either an aesthetic choice or a clue that don't depend on episode-syncing.

Of course I don't think we'll ever "know." It is unknowable at this point, unless Lynch spills the beans. I think whatever the reason to mute the two logos, (the only time in Twin Peaks history and maybe in Showtime's?) it was a very deliberate choice. Check out the end of part 13, with the silence of Ed's misery broken by the loud electric current of the logo. Quite jarring! One could similarly argue that the contrast in part 13 was effective in a way similar to a silent logo in 18. That avenue of argument is a dead end. In the sync theory it is a useful piece of evidence.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
User avatar
AgentEcho
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:57 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby AgentEcho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:34 pm

Sabrina Sutherland on her Reddit AMA when asked if part 17 and 18 were meant to be played concurrently:

This is definitely not the way to watch these parts.
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Deep Thought » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:10 pm

AgentEcho wrote:Sabrina Sutherland on her Reddit AMA when asked if part 17 and 18 were meant to be played concurrently:

This is definitely not the way to watch these parts.


Nice. thanks.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
Skip Bittman
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Skip Bittman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:36 pm

Back to the incoherent drawing board!
User avatar
AgentEcho
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:57 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby AgentEcho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Skip Bittman wrote:Back to the incoherent drawing board!


I know some people find that this sync theory helps them make sense of the finale, and if that's the case, I'd say run with it. Just because it wasn't intended to be watched this way doesn't mean that you can't make interpretations about the show based on the idea that they are linked.

My only problem with the sync theory was that people were claiming it was "meant" to be watched that way. It can be watched that way and if someone gets something out of it, they should hang onto that.
claaa7
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:50 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Sabrina Sutherland on her Reddit AMA when asked if part 17 and 18 were meant to be played concurrently:

This is definitely not the way to watch these parts.


Nice. thanks.


after some more comments where people discussed the merits of watching them synced she said this though:

"Maybe it's just meant to be that way even though it wasn't planned. That's pretty exciting! Like I said, I'm just hearing of it. Maybe it's something I'm not aware of - could be. I'm not infallible!"
User avatar
Firewalkwithme91
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Watching 17 and 18 in sync

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:42 am

Well, to me the author is dead and so his opinion of his own work could be interesting but shouldn´t limit my own experience with a piece of art. And Sabrina Sutherland isn´t even the author, so it doesn´t really matter to me.

Return to “Season 3 (2017) The Return (Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests