Where has Cooper been?

[Mystery Roach]

I wasn't sure if I should start a new topic for this, but I couldn't immediately think of a good place for it.

We've all assumed Cooper's been stuck in the Black Lodge for 25 years right? But the first time we see him he's in the White Lodge getting instructions from the Fireman. Now many have speculated that this scene is displaced in the timeline, but what if it isn't?

My theory is that at some point Cooper transcended the Black Lodge and made it to the White Lodge, where his soul may have even reached perfection. It was here that he and Diane interacted for however many years they were there together. And when the Fireman sends him back to the Black Lodge, this is the beginning of a long series of descents which ultimately lead, like Orpheus, to the underworld (so to speak) where he must find Laura and complete his task.

Something else about this that I think is sort of interesting to note is the juxtaposition between Jacoby's motto of digging yourself out of the shit and Cooper's journey down into it. I don't think it's coincidental that these two threads begin in the first two scenes of the show.

[claaa7]

Something else about this that I think is sort of interesting to note is the juxtaposition between Jacoby's motto of digging yourself out of the shit and Cooper's journey down into it. I don't think it's coincidental that these two threads begin in the first two scenes of the show.

interesting point... those two threads + Jerry's long hard journey which could also be seen as a parallel to Cooper's long and confusing journey

[Cipher]

All across the lodge world, I'd assume. Twenty-five years is a long time, even if I somewhat suspect it felt like substantially less time to Cooper. Time probably passes there like it would in a dream -- a week in a minute or a minute in hours.

I like what you've pointed out about Jacoby's shovels here, by the way! They're obviously played for comedy a bit, but I do think they dovetail with the rest of the series themes and symbology. Gold is presented as a symbol of positive transformation this season, and the sole narrative outcome of Jacobiy's shovels is allowing Nadine to come to terms with herself and her circumstances -- "digging (herself) out of the shit." Given the entire series' fascination with acceptance of both positive and negative parts of the self, and the way that plays into both Laura and Cooper's arcs (Laura's self-acceptance, Cooper's seeming lack of it), that works rather nicely. It's a silly plot element that becomes this weird, human good.

[Mystery Roach]

I like what you've pointed out about Jacoby's shovels here, by the way! They're obviously played for comedy a bit, but I do think they dovetail with the rest of the series themes and symbology. Gold is presented as a symbol of positive transformation this season, and the sole narrative outcome of Jacobiy's shovels is allowing Nadine to come to terms with herself and her circumstances -- "digging (herself) out of the shit." Given the entire series' fascination with acceptance of both positive and negative parts of the self, and the way that plays into both Laura and Cooper's arcs (Laura's self-acceptance, Cooper's seeming lack of it), that works rather nicely. It's a silly plot element that becomes this weird, human good.

I think you just nailed the point of this series. Laura is the golden orb of positive transformation sent to defeat the extreme negative force of Judy. This is the crux of everything, both in a narrative and metaphorical sense. It's about that internal struggle.

[DoppelBocker]

Myster Roach wrote:
I wasn't sure if I should start a new topic for this, but I couldn't immediately think of a good place for it.

We've all assumed Cooper's been stuck in the Black Lodge for 25 years right? But the first time we see him he's in the White Lodge getting instructions from the Fireman. Now many have speculated that this scene is displaced in the timeline, but what if it isn't?

My theory is that at some point Cooper transcended the Black Lodge and made it to the White Lodge, where his soul may have even reached perfection. It was here that he and Diane interacted for however many years they were there together. And when the Fireman sends him back to the Black Lodge, this is the beginning of a long series of descents which ultimately lead, like Orpheus, to the underworld (so to speak) where he must find Laura and complete his task.

Something else about this that I think is sort of interesting to note is the juxtaposition between Jacoby's motto of digging yourself out of the shit and Cooper's journey down into it. I don't think it's coincidental that these two threads begin in the first two scenes of the show.

I don't know about his soul transcending... I think his soul is trying to hence being able to go beyond into the white lodge but ultimately he is a guest as opposed to inhabitant (posted my theory on nature of the lodges here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3764&p=104669#p104669 as well as lodge spirit origin here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3770&p=104671#p104671 as well as Coop being a dreamer at end of thread here:viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3712&p=103242#p103242).

Coop has become the dreamer living inside his own type of purgatory these last 25 years living vicariously through Richard in a sort of purgatory realm or the coop sent to displace Mr. C's tulpa every once in a while blipping back into central dreamer role interacting with entities in the lodge. Coop's romance with Diane presumably took place as Richard and Linda within a purgatory realm (my theory on this here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3852&p=110503#p110503). The real Coop isn't able to fully arrive back until episode 18 or not at all it seems...